Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Paranoid Android]

Breaking via NYT: Russians hacked Burisma. The hacking attempts began in early November. It is not yet clear what the hackers found, or precisely what they were searching for. https://t.co/xeiAraap9l

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...556113921?s=19

Hmm why would Russians want to hack into Burisma.?

[beanman12345]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...556113921?s=19

Hmm why would Russians want to hack into Burisma.?

Yeah it's pretty clear what they were searching for, and doubt they'll find anything. Sorry not gonna work this time.

[Jotaux]

We've had 2.5 years of your horseshit Trump/Russia conspiracy theories....and you just can't stop spewing them. Tell me again about Cohen and Prague...that's one of my favorites.

The Trump/Russia link was established in the Mueller report. Go actually read it.

[Bryntrollian]

According to California congressman Ro Khanna, bengazi did not happen. There were no embassy attacks under Obama, according to this democrat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtrQ...ature=emb_logo

Probably won't be the last time you hear someone make that statement.

[For_The_Horde]

According to California congressman Ro Khanna, bengazi did not happen. There were no embassy attacks under Obama, according to this democrat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtrQ...ature=emb_logo

And? Is he wrong? I mean there have been attempts at attacks sure, there are several every year, but they usually just amount to vandalism or minor damage to a wall or guardhouse. Can you name a single attack on an embassy during Obama's presidency where Americans died or were seriously injured?

[Dacien]

Conspiracy theories that are so conspiratorial that several people have actually gone to prison. Right.

The problem is those aren't what people are talking about when they talk about "Trump/Russia Conspiracy". Manafort engaging in financial fraud unrelated to the the Trump campaign may fall under "conspiracy to defraud the US", but that's not what the public was sold on, nor is it what they mean when they talk about the subject. Neither is Papadopoulos lying about the timeline of a meeting. We were sold the idea that Trump and/or the Trump campaign had coordinated illegally with a foreign entity to alter the election. That's what people are referring to when they say Trump/Russia came to nothing.

The closest you could maybe argue is the Trump Tower meeting, but as I argued many times during the Mueller investigation, information would have to be interpreted as a "thing of value" under CFR 110.20. Mueller had this to say:

"There are reasonable arguments that the offered information would constitute a “thing of value” within the meaning of these provisions, but the Office determined that the government would not be likely to obtain and sustain a conviction for two other reasons: first, the Office did not obtain admissible evidence likely to meet the government’s burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these individuals acted “willfully,” i.e., with general knowledge of the illegality of their conduct; and, second, the government would likely encounter difficulty in proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the value of the promised information exceeded the threshold for a criminal violation..."

I disagree that there's a "reasonable argument" to be made that information could be considered covered under the regulations. If a foreign national says he has evidence that a campaign rival is engaged in illegal conduct, it's unfathomable that giving them an audience would violate the law. If that were the case, Christopher Steele's human intelligence information would be considered in violation. Which of course it wasn't.

But the point is that there was no "Trump/Russia Conspiracy" as it was well understood by the media and the public for 2 years, and invoking the convictions for crimes completely unrelated to the substance of that as evidence that it was there after all is disingenuous to say the least. It's almost a motte and bailey routine where the argument is made that there was a Trump Russia conspiracy, and if anyone objects, they retreat to the motte of completely unrelated crimes and events.

[Thekri]

And? Is he wrong? I mean there have been attempts at attacks sure, there are several every year, but they usually just amount to vandalism or minor damage to a wall or guardhouse. Can you name a single attack on an embassy during Obama's presidency where Americans died or were seriously injured?

Uh, yeah. The US Embassy in Libya at Benghazi. 4 Americans died, including our Ambassador. It is like the only foreign policy event of the Obama Administration that they do know.

[cubby]

I wonder if rump is starting to poop himself; He's expecting GOP defections regarding witness testimony

Senior White House officials tell CBS News they increasingly believe that at least four Republicans, and likely more, will vote to call witnesses. In addition to Senators Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Mitt Romney of Utah and possibly Cory Gardner of Colorado, the White House also views Rand Paul of Kentucky as a "wild card" and Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee as an "institutionalist" who might vote to call witnesses, as one official put it.

Fan-fucking-tastic. Since the vote is already pre-determined by Moscow Mitch, we can at least enjoy the relative trolling on our Felon-in-Chief and perhaps he'll blow enough of a gasket for the GOP to uncouple their lips from Trump's asshole and start doing the right thing.

[Elegiac]

The problem is those aren't what people are talking about when they talk about "Trump/Russia Conspiracy". Manafort engaging in financial fraud unrelated to the the Trump campaign may fall under "conspiracy to defraud the US", but that's not what the public was sold on, nor is it what they mean when they talk about the subject. Neither is Papadopoulos lying about the timeline of a meeting. We were sold the idea that Trump and/or the Trump campaign had coordinated illegally with a foreign entity to alter the election. That's what people are referring to when they say Trump/Russia came to nothing.

Yes, and the people in the Trump campaign who were acting as foreign agents on behalf of Russian interests and got caught are now in prison.

"No True Fifth Columnist" isn't a defense of what was fundamentally unethical and illegal behavior.

[Orbitus]

It's a crying shame that their Trump/Russia conspiracy theory didn't pan out. Now they have to settle for less...much, much less.

Yeah, too bad it isn't a conspiracy theory, there is at least 2 instances of Trump and his campaign colluding with Russians during the 2016 campaign. You haven't read the Mueller report have you?

[Edge-]

And? Is he wrong? I mean there have been attempts at attacks sure, there are several every year, but they usually just amount to vandalism or minor damage to a wall or guardhouse. Can you name a single attack on an embassy during Obama's presidency where Americans died or were seriously injured?

...Benghazi. But that was thoroughly investigated and confirmed that there was no error on the part of the Obama administration or the State Department.

But, despite Republican attempts to blame Obama, their 6 investigations found that there was no wrongdoing on the part of the administration, the State Department, or the CIA, who all responded appropriately. However, it does to back to the additional security funding that was requested for the embassy that House Republicans objected to prior to the attack.

[Calfredd]

...Benghazi. But that was thoroughly investigated and confirmed that there was no error on the part of the Obama administration or the State Department.

But, despite Republican attempts to blame Obama, their 6 investigations found that there was no wrongdoing on the part of the administration, the State Department, or the CIA, who all responded appropriately. However, it does to back to the additional security funding that was requested for the embassy that House Republicans objected to prior to the attack.

Wasn't there 11 total investigations into Benghazi?

[Orbitus]

Wasn't there 11 total investigations into Benghazi?

Looks like from Wikipedia, at least 10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invest...enghazi_attack

[Breccia]

Hmm why would Russians want to hack into Burisma.?

You beat me to it. But more info is available here.

Also: there aren't enough votes to handwave impeachment. Shout-out to @Shadowferal for a similar post. This is what a razor-thin majority does.

[Edge-]

Wasn't there 11 total investigations into Benghazi?

There were more, yes, but there were 6 repeated Republican investigations when the non-partisan ones, and their earlier ones, kept failing to turn up any evidence of wrongdoing that they desperately wanted to find.

[Templar 331]

But the point is that there was no "Trump/Russia Conspiracy" as it was well understood by the media and the public for 2 years, and invoking the convictions for crimes completely unrelated to the substance of that as evidence that it was there after all is disingenuous to say the least. It's almost a motte and bailey routine where the argument is made that there was a Trump Russia conspiracy, and if anyone objects, they retreat to the motte of completely unrelated crimes and events.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...on-obstruction

The first half of the Mueller report concludes that “the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion,” that it did so on Trump’s behalf, and that the Trump campaign “expected it would benefit” from Russia’s intervention. The report also shows that the Trump organization was in negotiations to build a Trump hotel in Moscow through 2016, and that people in Trump’s orbit appeared to have advance warning of the emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign.

What the report does not establish is explicit coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia. There is no smoking gun where a Trump confidant asks Russian operatives to hack Clinton’s emails — well, aside from the time Trump asked Putin to do so in public — or advises them on when to release them.

Trump received help from the Russians, welcomed that help, and arguably rewarded Russia for that help, but Mueller does not present evidence that Trump or any of his associates helped Russia help him.

There's plenty of evidence of his collusion, just not enough to prove conspiracy in the legal sense. We've gone through this routine with you plenty of times in the Mueller thread and your BS still isn't any less BS. The reason we have an impeachment now instead of then is the smoking gun Trump handed over along with enough witness testimony to prove his illegal acts.

[For_The_Horde]

...Benghazi. But that was thoroughly investigated and confirmed that there was no error on the part of the Obama administration or the State Department.

Uh, yeah. The US Embassy in Libya at Benghazi. 4 Americans died, including our Ambassador. It is like the only foreign policy event of the Obama Administration that they do know.

There is no US embassy in Benghazi Libya. There was an attack, the US Ambassador to Libya did die (at the hospital, after being transported there by the protesters). But all of this didn't happen at the US Libyan embassy (which is in Tripoli). Again, there was no major attack on a US embassy from 2008 to 2016, so the statement holds true.

[Draco-Onis]

But, if he's going to help Trump, why would Mitch not let him testify? Why does Trump not want him to talk? That kills a major democrat talking point, and kills the scandal of mitch burying this.

Because if Mitch let's one person testify he has to open it up to everyone that means Mulvaney, Mnuchin, Pompeo. Trump has all this time been claiming absolute immunity his lawyers are arguing that he is above the law and everything he says is beyond investigation can't let anyone in his inner circle break that.

[Edge-]

There is no US embassy in Benghazi Libya. There was an attack, the US Ambassador to Libya did die (at the hospital, after being transported there by the protesters). But all of this didn't happen at the US Libyan embassy (which is in Tripoli). Again, there was no major attack on a US embassy from 2008 to 2016, so the statement holds true.

Diplomatic compound*

You're right, but I fear this is splitting hairs over minutia.

[cubby]

on ABC this weekend, Pelosi said that "We have confidence in our case." , yet Shumer keeps whining about wanting more witnesses and what does the President have to hide. It's a real united front of hypocrisy that knows no bounds.

The fact that you think those two things are hypocritical demonstrate how out of touch you are with the facts of the situation.