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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Mage tower and challenges modes actually weren't as popular as people pegged them off to be, but they did offer a tangible reward which is the point that we were trying to make, you have to give a reward or people won't do something en masse.
    And do you think that people would still do the same amount of world quests, islands and all that other shitty content as they do now if all they offered was a transmog set or a title? This is the argument, Blizzard thinks that these systems having such high engagement is because they are fun, not because they are a stepping stone into better content.

    And just to be clear, I don't mind islands and warfronts and all that stuff existing, what I mind is their reward structures. If they existed in a capacity that made them optional for a high end raider/M+ runner, then it wouldn't even be an issue.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You yourself said you want to be competitive. Being competitive in a game basically is work. That doesn't mean it's a full time job, but that means time needs to be put into said game. If you want to play the game casually you can also do that, and then it won't be "like work" anymore. You're the one who literally on the record said you want to be competitive but also don't want to put in said work but only do it cause you have to lol. Welcome to life, if you want to be competitive at anything you have to put in work.
    You do have to wonder just how "competitive" these people are sometimes... Top 50 world? Top 100 world? Bet most of them are outside of to 500 and just killing themselves grinding for no reason.... Like chill... you don't need a level 70 neck to beat Azshara.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    And do you think that people would still do the same amount of world quests, islands and all that other shitty content as they do now if all they offered was a transmog set or a title? This is the argument, Blizzard thinks that these systems having such high engagement is because they are fun, not because they are a stepping stone into better content.

    And just to be clear, I don't mind islands and warfronts and all that stuff existing, what I mind is their reward structures. If they existed in a capacity that made them optional for a high end raider/M+ runner, then it wouldn't even be an issue.
    Actually, yes, yes they would. People fucking love transmogs, titles, mounts, just as much as character power progression. People continued doing WQs for paragon rep to get fucking mounts and shit CONSTANTLY.

    Towers weren't fun after the first time, but i'll be dammed if didn't do all 36 because I wanted the tmogs.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You yourself said you want to be competitive. Being competitive in a game basically is work. That doesn't mean it's a full time job, but that means time needs to be put into said game. If you want to play the game casually you can also do that, and then it won't be "like work" anymore. You're the one who literally on the record said you want to be competitive but also don't want to put in said work but only do it cause you have to lol. Welcome to life, if you want to be competitive at anything you have to put in work.
    Again, that's literally not what I said. What I said was that I want to do something relevant to my tastes and enjoyable. Right now there is only one path, no options. You're misinterpreting me at every opportunity and not even answering my questions on the subject.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You do have to wonder just how "competitive" these people are sometimes... Top 50 world? Top 100 world? Bet most of them are outside of to 500 and just killing themselves grinding for no reason.... Like chill... you don't need a level 70 neck to beat Azshara.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Actually, yes, yes they would. People fucking love transmogs, titles, mounts, just as much as character power progression. People continued doing WQs for paragon rep to get fucking mounts and shit CONSTANTLY.

    Towers weren't fun after the first time, but i'll be dammed if didn't do all 36 because I wanted the tmogs.
    No, no they wouldn't.

    Sure there are people that love transmogs and collectibles, but the vast majority of people doing high end raiding/mythic+ absolutely fucking detest these systems and would stop them in an instant if they didn't offer player power. There isn't even the slightest chance on earth that engagement would remain the same with that change.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    There wasn't anything interesting or exciting about any Azerite trait. There still isn't. Comparing them to Legendaries is just ridiculous. At best they can be compared to Set Bonuses. I find nothing exciting or engaging about my 9th passive proc filling my buff bar. Nor was the gear easier to obtain, until 8.1.5 when they added a Vendor. It still had the exact same problem as Legendaries - you couldn't target or directly farm the trait you actually wanted or needed. You had to rely on pure luck. You're looking at it as it was in 8.1.5, not as it launched.

    You claim the developers shouldn't take player feedback on board every single time. But how can a game developer from a multi billion dollar company think that it is okay for you to earn a trait on a piece of gear, unlock it and play around it with. Then get a higher level piece of the same gear and have to re-grind that same trait back. Some of these things are so stupidly obvious it baffles the mind that they ever get implemented in the first place.

    Is it stupidity then? Or is it nefarious development? Do they directly want to fuck over their own playerbase? Or are they morons? Pick one.

    Your comments on Shadow... Sigh. I wish people would STOP comparing the DPS a spec does and how it functions, how it plays. You can check Priest forums across the internet. Check their Discord etc. I think the majority are not happy with how the spec PLAYS. Sure it may do great damage...


    Why did this happen? Refer to my statements about regrinding traits above. Because the developers are stupid? Or because they wanted to fuck their playerbase over? Pick one.
    Do you not see the SPriest in my signature? I've mained Shadow since Cata. I'm well aware of the spec and I've repeatedly been extremely critical of how the spec plays currently. (I quit before EP was released for reasons unrelated to the game.) That said, damage is damage. HFC Arcane wasn't a very fun spec to play but God damn if there weren't a metric fuckton of people playing it because of how stupidly OP it was.

    Moreover, it's pretty silly for you to list a bunch of needlessly cynical options then tell me to "pick one" when I already provided you an example of how I approach the subject. I don't think the developers are stupid, or nefarious, or any of the many negative things players love to accuse developers of being. I think, at times, they have ideas that don't pan out the way they want them. And I think Blizzard developers in particular do not like to communicate with players so it often seems like they aren't listening. But as developers, they have the right to try new things out and see how it pans out. And hopefully, if the reaction is negative, take that feedback into consideration before moving forward. I think a lot of the problems that Blizzard faces with its design decisions could be alleviated with something like the dev watercoolers from back in GC's days. (For example: Here's what we were thinking. Here's where we fucked up. Here's what we're doing to make sure we don't do that fucked up thing again. I think Riot does a great job on this front and Blizzard could stand to take a few pointers here.)

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    but the vast majority of people doing high end raiding/mythic+
    Which would be a TINY drop in the bucket of the overall player base.

    You're confusing raiders with a player base majority. The majority of players haven't seen the inside of EP, don't do more than a normal or maybe heroic dungeon on occasion, spend a lot of the time on line chasing tmog and mounts, and are probably wearing a lot of blue gear and emissary epics.

    Since we're on the cusp of the end of Season 3 let's do some math.

    If we assume there's at least 1.5 million players worldwide playing WoW (it's probably at least 2m honestly but who knows), 918 guilds or 18,360 players have beaten mythic EP or 1.2% of the playerbase (again, assuming a probably rather low 1.5m)

    Mythic +20 or higher is probably closer to 5%, but i CBA to add it up and do the math.

    Regardless, small time compared to the overall playerbase
    Last edited by Onikaroshi; 2020-01-14 at 03:38 AM.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Once more, you're not going to get real feedback on a fan forum like this. People who participate in fan forums aren't in Blizzard's target demographic.
    I suppose this will enrage someone but there are a metric ton of private groups on Facebook that are about World of Warcraft. I can speak to two of them:

    1. A 35-and-older group with right at 10,000 members.
    2. A 55-and-older group with around 1700 members. They support several guilds on multiple servers and have regular raid nights for normal difficulty raiding to which anyone is invited.

    Those two groups right there, never mind some of the others which dwarf those two in members, are people that Blizzard is paying attention to. Especially as their player base continues to age. MMO-C is not the center of the universe.

    I'm not making a value judgment about this or anything else except that a lot of people here have very narrow horizons about what the player base looks like. There are as many different play styles ranging from mythic raider who plays every day to non-raider who only plays on Saturday night. Playerbase has to be much larger, more diverse and casual than nearly anyone in this thread is talking about. I've seen at least half-a-dozen posts just this week from people who just got BfA flying. These are not people that will ever show up here and from what I can tell they don't visit the Blizz forums or Reddit either. The game cuts a really wide swath and the business concerns are not much about everyday players who rush through content and then spend weeks or months complaining on forums.

    And for what it's worth, a lot people in those FB groups are pretty OK with the game. It's not their life, they know better. They have priorities. And a lot of them seem to be having fun. Who knew?
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2020-01-14 at 03:36 AM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Do you not see the SPriest in my signature? I've mained Shadow since Cata. I'm well aware of the spec and I've repeatedly been extremely critical of how the spec plays currently. (I quit before EP was released for reasons unrelated to the game.) That said, damage is damage. HFC Arcane wasn't a very fun spec to play but God damn if there weren't a metric fuckton of people playing it because of how stupidly OP it was.

    Moreover, it's pretty silly for you to list a bunch of needlessly cynical options then tell me to "pick one" when I already provided you an example of how I approach the subject. I don't think the developers are stupid, or nefarious, or any of the many negative things players love to accuse developers of being. I think, at times, they have ideas that don't pan out the way they want them. And I think Blizzard developers in particular do not like to communicate with players so it often seems like they aren't listening. But as developers, they have the right to try new things out and see how it pans out. And hopefully, if the reaction is negative, take that feedback into consideration before moving forward. I think a lot of the problems that Blizzard faces with its design decisions could be alleviated with something like the dev watercoolers from back in GC's days. (For example: Here's what we were thinking. Here's where we fucked up. Here's what we're doing to make sure we don't do that fucked up thing again. I think Riot does a great job on this front and Blizzard could stand to take a few pointers here.)
    Could you comment specifically on the scenario I detailed. The regrinding of Azerite traits after already having earned them?

    I find some decisions so mind-numbingly stupid you honestly have to wonder.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Could you comment specifically on the scenario I detailed. The regrinding of Azerite traits after already having earned them?

    I find some decisions so mind-numbingly stupid you honestly have to wonder.
    They actually knew they fucked up that one right from the start, they mentioned it very early on.... but couldn't figure out a good way to fix it until 8.2.

  9. #229
    Choochoo all aboard the content drought train.

    Next stop, October 2020 at least.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    Choochoo all aboard the content drought train.

    Next stop, October 2020 at least.
    It's not going to be a very long drought honestly... 7.3.5 didn't provide much substance so we were in antorus from like nov til aug so like 9 months. If they were to release in oct that would a 8th month final tier, so... honestly this drought won't be any worse than the last.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Zimpoli View Post
    This is in the store:
    *World of Warcraft®: Shadowlands expansion available on or before December 31, 2020

    They are obligated to launch by then.

    Legion and BfA had that exact same message, both which came out in August.

    Pray tell, what will you do when Shadowlands comes out around August/Sept and your fearmongering and pointless negativity is exposed as exactly that?

    There's no point hanging around a forum for a hobby just to be pessimistic and negative about it, especially when you're not even attempting to be objective.
    Nah, look at Warcraft Reforged. By 2019, they were obligated as well and guess what happened? Its 2020 and its still not out. Blizzard do what they want.

  12. #232
    why is this even surprising to people... all end expansion patches have lasted a while. it'll be fine.

  13. #233
    Officers Academy Prof. Byleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    For me it's just FFVII:R
    Word!

    Can. Not. Wait!
    Here is something to believe in!

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's not going to be a very long drought honestly... 7.3.5 didn't provide much substance so we were in antorus from like nov til aug so like 9 months. If they were to release in oct that would a 8th month final tier, so... honestly this drought won't be any worse than the last.
    7.3.5 introduced the scaling world, which invigorated a ton of people to make alts or finish leveling existing ones. Yeah there wasn't a lot of NEW content to do but they introduced features to keep people playing.

    Also just because a previous content drought was bad doesn't somehow make another one okay? By that logic nobody should ever complain because it was over a year between the end of WoD and the start of Legion.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    7.3.5 introduced the scaling world, which invigorated a ton of people to make alts or finish leveling existing ones. Yeah there wasn't a lot of NEW content to do but they introduced features to keep people playing.

    Also just because a previous content drought was bad doesn't somehow make another one okay? By that logic nobody should ever complain because it was over a year between the end of WoD and the start of Legion.
    We know we're going to get droughts at this point, it takes time to make new expansions, just deal with it or take a break and play other games.

    And 7.3.5 was HATED for what it did to leveling, it made it long and arduous, only masochists leveled during 7.3.5

    I hope they do a long prepatch this time though, 2+ months, because those leveling changes and the level squish are going to take some time to go through.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Okidoki, no skin off my nose. I will play 8.3 as long as I feel like, and then I will do other things. Plenty of games out there, people stuck in content drought s are choosing it themselves.

    If 8.3 lasts me 4 months, it will be a short break between this endpatch and the prepatch Indeed.
    Exactly this. I love people that complain about content droughts and act like their entire gaming experience is ruined. Do other things. Play other games. WoW doesn’t need to be the only game you play and/or enjoy.
    I’m back in a raiding guild. So I’ll do my weekly stuff, log on for raids during, and after, that content I want to do, and the rest of my time will be spent not in WoW and not caring that I have nothing to do in that one game.
    People need to quit acting that WoW is the only game to play right now and stop worrying about a content drought. They happen. Use the time to do other things.

  17. #237
    And 7.3.5 was HATED for what it did to leveling, it made it long and arduous, only masochists leveled during 7.3.5
    According to who? Everybody I knew who played WoW were making and playing alts, including myself. The feature was incredibly lauded by so many people that I honestly can't recall a single person being upset about it. Hell it set the stage for the next level of scaling that we're getting in Shadowlands. The idea that somehow leveling became longer with the scaling is just factually false. You can blitz through all of an expansion in a day if you're smart.

    We know we're going to get droughts at this point, it takes time to make new expansions, just deal with it or take a break and play other games.
    I guess we should just never question anything they do then huh.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2020-01-14 at 04:03 AM.

  18. #238
    I'm actually a bit surprised because I was expecting a relatively "smaller" patch for 8.3.5 with the last pair of Allied Races. This is going to bother me so much to see the asymmetrical flags in the embassy rooms in SW and OG. I was super hyped about possible Rajani Mogu Allied Race, as well as probably one more pair of Heritage Armors..

  19. #239
    8.3 already looks like it'll get boring quick.......this doesn't bode well.

    Once you get your legendary cloak.....that's pretty much it outside of the raid.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    According to who? Everybody I knew who played WoW were making and playing alts, including myself.
    I mean, I guess you were living under a rock or something but... on the forums, in the game, in my guild. Good lord the outcry too when they broke max levels carrying through dungeons because questing was awful. They just made leveling tedious, not fun.

    Now though it's actually not bad and hopefully with 9.0 it's even better. Can't wait to just pick an expansion and level solely through it.

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