Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Fahrenheit]

To answer your consideration:



Note that Warren is the only one who polls as losing in a run against Trump.

Female candidates just seem to stand no chance in the american political landscape...

Goes along with most head to head polls I've seen, Biden is typically just outside of MoE against Trump, Sanders is just inside or right on the cusp.
Women will get there in the next decade or two.

Just a few too many women like my mother out there, "I just didn't like Clinton, there is something unsettling about having a woman President".

[Benggaul]

Note that Warren is the only one who polls as losing in a run against Trump.

Female candidates just seem to stand no chance in the american political landscape...

I would take these types polls with a grain of salt. If Warren were to make it through to the General I think you'd see much more support thrown behind her than these polls indicate. At this stage people who have "favorites" will stick with theirs as the main choice (even when presented with these head-to-head contests) until they're ruled out which tends to skew the results.

Admittedly she seems to be dropping in the polls overall which is a shame (she remains my preference), but should she make it through as the nominee I really don't think she'd be less popular than Trump at all.

[Theodarzna]

I would take these types polls with a grain of salt. If Warren were to make it through to the General I think you'd see much more support thrown behind her than these polls indicate. At this stage people who have "favorites" will stick with theirs as the main choice (even when presented with these head-to-head contests) until they're ruled out which tends to skew the results.

Admittedly she seems to be dropping in the polls overall which is a shame (she remains my preference), but should she make it through as the nominee I really don't think she'd be less popular than Trump at all.

Warren has the problem of a ton of dirt and a long hilarious track record of lying. I mean even now with her campaigns attempt to #MeToo Sanders, Sanders was an ardent feminist when she was a republican writing impassioned papers calling for deregulation and free market initiatives.

Warren is a proven liar:
1. Betrayed on M4A, she has completely waffled.
2. Plagiarised recipes to sell a Native American cookbook where she calls herself "Cherokee", a point Trump will destroy her with forever. Plus the fact that she materially benefited from the Native America claim, securing jobs because of it.
3. Said she was Republican in the 80s because she "wasn't political" when she wrote articles calling for deregulation, more over many of her plans essentially are ultimately predicated on a distinctly Biden-esque lens but presented in a way that pleases her largely highly educated and affluent base.

Warrens entire appeals is to tell that subsection of the electorate that she will ensure they won't end up as poor people. In the end Sanders would do far better since his entire platform is universal.

[Milchshake]

Goes along with most head to head polls I've seen, Biden is typically just outside of MoE against Trump, Sanders is just inside or right on the cusp.
Women will get there in the next decade or two.

Just a few too many women like my mother out there, "I just didn't like Clinton, there is something unsettling about having a woman President".

What people in the US at present would seem to have the most trouble getting elected president, all other things being equal?

That’s actually an easier question to answer, since there are people in America who huge numbers of Americans will openly admit they would not vote for, even if those people were otherwise “generally well qualified” for office.

Lets dig into that Gallup poll.

The two most prominent such groups of people are;

• Socialists, who quite recently a full 50% of Americans were willing to say they would not vote for
• Atheists, who 40% of Americans said the same thing about in the same poll.
• By contrast, 8% of respondents said they wouldn’t vote for a woman.

[Martymark]

The problem with this is all the Blue voters are all blobbed up in 2 states. If the dems get 99% of the votes in California and NY, but Trump gets 51% of the vote in all the rest, Trump wins by a landslide...

[Tipolas]

Warren has the problem of a ton of dirt and a long hilarious track record of lying. I mean even now with her campaigns attempt to #MeToo Sanders, Sanders was an ardent feminist when she was a republican writing impassioned papers calling for deregulation and free market initiatives.

Warren is a proven liar:
1. Betrayed on M4A, she has completely waffled.
2. Plagiarised recipes to sell a Native American cookbook where she calls herself "Cherokee", a point Trump will destroy her with forever. Plus the fact that she materially benefited from the Native America claim, securing jobs because of it.
3. Said she was Republican in the 80s because she "wasn't political" when she wrote articles calling for deregulation, more over many of her plans essentially are ultimately predicated on a distinctly Biden-esque lens but presented in a way that pleases her largely highly educated and affluent base.

Warrens entire appeals is to tell that subsection of the electorate that she will ensure they won't end up as poor people. In the end Sanders would do far better since his entire platform is universal.

Additionally, Warren just got played so badly at the last election when Hilary hinted at promised her VP in exchange for not supporting Bernie. There's a case for saying you need someone more ruthless than Bernie-but she's not, she's just less principled.

[downnola]

Warren has the problem of a ton of dirt and a long hilarious track record of lying. I mean even now with her campaigns attempt to #MeToo Sanders, Sanders was an ardent feminist when she was a republican writing impassioned papers calling for deregulation and free market initiatives.

Warren is a proven liar:
1. Betrayed on M4A, she has completely waffled.
2. Plagiarised recipes to sell a Native American cookbook where she calls herself "Cherokee", a point Trump will destroy her with forever. Plus the fact that she materially benefited from the Native America claim, securing jobs because of it.
3. Said she was Republican in the 80s because she "wasn't political" when she wrote articles calling for deregulation, more over many of her plans essentially are ultimately predicated on a distinctly Biden-esque lens but presented in a way that pleases her largely highly educated and affluent base.

Warrens entire appeals is to tell that subsection of the electorate that she will ensure they won't end up as poor people. In the end Sanders would do far better since his entire platform is universal.

Trump is a proven liar and secured enough electoral college votes to get elected. How does honesty matter in this equation?

[Theodarzna]

Trump is a proven liar and secured enough electoral college votes to get elected. How does honesty matter in this equation?

Honesty in a sense matters with credibility towards one's own electorate. Plus if we accept your frame than you agree I am correct that Warren is full of it and none of her policy prescriptions are valid or even trust worthy.

That isn't a strong case for "Vote for my person".

[Theodarzna]

True, it's a weird democratic system, entirely skewed in favor of the smallest states.

The whole electoral system is even less democratic than the indirect EU system of electing head officials, and we know how that gets dragged through the coals because people don't get to directly vote on someone's particular name for a seat as EU's president...

It is IMHO strange that a system everyone is aware of is so hotly contested now. I mean is it that great of a burden for Democrats to have to leave two major urban centers and convince people in other states to vote for them? Is that like asking to much to build a broad coalition?

[Fahrenheit]

True, it's a weird democratic system, entirely skewed in favor of the smallest states.

The whole electoral system is even less democratic than the indirect EU system of electing head officials, and we know how that gets dragged through the coals because people don't get to directly vote on someone's particular name for a seat as EU's president...

EC is bizarre, and something that's a relic of a bygone time. It either needs to be abandoned, or at least brought up to parity by apportioning reps equally. No more of this 1 Wyoming vote counts for what, 6 California votes? In terms of relative EC power.

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It is IMHO strange that a system everyone is aware of is so hotly contested now. I mean is it that great of a burden for Democrats to have to leave two major urban centers and convince people in other states to vote for them? Is that like asking to much to build a broad coalition?

The two major urban center are the entire West Coast and like 60% of the East Coast, it's not just NYC, LA, Chicago dominating the landscape.

[Theodarzna]

My only objection is that some people's votes are worth relatively less than others. That is like the old oligarchic democracies where wealthy folks got five votes and poor people only one. Except now for some reason it's alright because a lot of people live in one place and less in another...

In France this would've been punishable by guillotine if you got elected that way.

Given its a federation of states and not a unitary state, it does make sense that this countries Federal Government election would work differently than what is effectively a unitary state. In France, Brittany, Basque Country and Normandy don't have the same political autonomy or power that a US State does.

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Additionally, Warren just got played so badly at the last election when Hilary hinted at promised her VP in exchange for not supporting Bernie. There's a case for saying you need someone more ruthless than Bernie-but she's not, she's just less principled.

She is certainly revealed to be fairly Craven.

The other big disappointment is AOC. You know what prominent women politicians came to Sanders defense? Tulsi Gabbard pretty much right out of the gate came to Sanders aide, AOC? Nothing and she formerly endorsed Sanders. Warren is certainly craven and calculating; and I do wish Sanders would just hit her as hard as his supporters have been because ultimately a handful of twitter accounts were able to pretty easily reveal she isn't even really a Socialist and given her choice quotes of being "Capitalist to my bones" and her many policy prescriptions and rhetoric boiling down to "Hey, struggle professionals, I'll make sure you never end up like those opiod riddled dregs at the bottom!" is going to cost her in a general.

Biden's legacy with the Iraq War, trade deals, is essentially the Hillary Formulae but without Wokeness to give it any extra UMPF, and Warren's strategy was increasingly try to ape Sander's aesthetic while ultimately pushing a Clintonite set of policy and now embracing Wokeness as hard as possible and hoping to #MeToo Sanders.

If Warren's ploy works for her, whatever the outcome if Sanders is driven out; while I won't predict the election results I foresee the coming political paradigm in 5-20 years or whenever the boomer mass die-off happens will become woke capital vs nazbol (in essence if not aesthetics, and excluding fringe groups).

[Bodakane]

Warren has the problem of a ton of dirt and a long hilarious track record of lying. I mean even now with her campaigns attempt to #MeToo Sanders, Sanders was an ardent feminist when she was a republican writing impassioned papers calling for deregulation and free market initiatives.

Warren is a proven liar:
1. Betrayed on M4A, she has completely waffled.
2. Plagiarised recipes to sell a Native American cookbook where she calls herself "Cherokee", a point Trump will destroy her with forever. Plus the fact that she materially benefited from the Native America claim, securing jobs because of it.
3. Said she was Republican in the 80s because she "wasn't political" when she wrote articles calling for deregulation, more over many of her plans essentially are ultimately predicated on a distinctly Biden-esque lens but presented in a way that pleases her largely highly educated and affluent base.

Warrens entire appeals is to tell that subsection of the electorate that she will ensure they won't end up as poor people. In the end Sanders would do far better since his entire platform is universal.

What you consider lies and their importance, while felating Trump is fucking laughable.

[Theodarzna]

What you consider lies and their importance, while felating Trump is fucking laughable.

Citations please. :3

[unfilteredJW]

Warren has the problem of a ton of dirt and a long hilarious track record of lying. I mean even now with her campaigns attempt to #MeToo Sanders, Sanders was an ardent feminist when she was a republican writing impassioned papers calling for deregulation and free market initiatives.

Warren is a proven liar:
1. Betrayed on M4A, she has completely waffled.
2. Plagiarised recipes to sell a Native American cookbook where she calls herself "Cherokee", a point Trump will destroy her with forever. Plus the fact that she materially benefited from the Native America claim, securing jobs because of it.
3. Said she was Republican in the 80s because she "wasn't political" when she wrote articles calling for deregulation, more over many of her plans essentially are ultimately predicated on a distinctly Biden-esque lens but presented in a way that pleases her largely highly educated and affluent base.

Warrens entire appeals is to tell that subsection of the electorate that she will ensure they won't end up as poor people. In the end Sanders would do far better since his entire platform is universal.

You having an issue with someone plagiarizing is fucking hysterical.

[Theodarzna]

You having an issue with someone plagiarizing is fucking hysterical.

MMO-OC isn't a published book. Nor am I a technical person who can benefit from it. Theodarzna is a name; not the name of the person typing this. Nor am I trying to collect fame and prestige from my... *Laughs uncontrollably* MMO-OC posting career. This forum is about one step above 4chan posts.

Plus, I like to see if you guys can be shown word for word socialism and how you react to it. What is amazing is the people who present to be Socialists, LARPing hard will reject their own ideology presented to them.

[Elegiac]

You having an issue with someone plagiarizing is fucking hysterical.

Why is it whenever these chuds get confronted with their hypocrisy or lies they immediately fall back into "well this is the internet and it doesn't matter so nyeh"?

[Theodarzna]

Why is it whenever these chuds get confronted with their hypocrisy or lies they immediately fall back into "well this is the internet and it doesn't matter so nyeh"?

I think my position could be summarized as two things,

This is MMO-OC, not even facebook. None of us on here are really real. You seem to be flattening the issue. Warren is a real person who stands to gain from said actions. Theodarzna is a handle made up for posting on MMO-OC, no IRL person gets any benefit from any post made here. Plagiarism is only really plagiarism if someone is claiming credit for something and stands to benefit from it. Unlike in an academic setting, nobody here uses links or quotes unless they wish to back up a point. And since this is essentially the online equivalent of banter and chatter its decidedly not anybody presenting anything as their own original thoughts. Heck nobody credits anyone here with even having original thoughts. Everyone is merely looking for a reason to say someone is a shill, Russianbot, or you know paid to post insidious propaganda half the time.

If you are arguing that "Its very serious that MMO-OC poster Theodarzna rips texts sometimes from socialist websites to present to us whom spend a lot of time claiming to be ardent leftists," then in the same sense argue there is some equivalence between someone playing a weird game and say an IRL person, with political power publishing stuff under a real name and trying to claim real prestige from it.

[unfilteredJW]

Why is it whenever these chuds get confronted with their hypocrisy or lies they immediately fall back into "well this is the internet and it doesn't matter so nyeh"?

Shining a light on their dishonesty must burn.

[Bodakane]

Citations please. :3

Citations of what? Trump's lies? Are you fucking serious?

[arandomuser]

if you want to win the general, nominate a white man, thats what the polls show, every person of color candidate thats well known and woman loses to trump in a matchup, why do bernie and biden both win in the swing states to polls but woman and candidates of color lose? Its obvious and its the reason trump won 2016, its just a fact, thats why even though hillary was the most moderate candidate to run, she was to the right of obama, all the press did was focus on how "she dosent connect to white working class voters, and how her base is too "urban"" And to me while i personally understand progressives being mad that its the truth of the matter- its just the truth, the best thing you can do for social justice( if that happens to be one of your concerns) is removing trump, and that means you need a white man nominee, simple as that, thats why joe biden was picked to be obamas vp, he helped steer him from the electability problems. and thats why he can win the general