Gonna miss titanforging.

[Volatilis]

No, but neither do you get ultimate weapons from the first bosses. And you generally get your best weapons in the FF series shortly before the last boss.

most of the best stuff comes from side content actually like card games and chocobos or battle arenas.

Side content is the best way of doing it. Having the best stuff drop once you've completed the game makes no sense.

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Some of the weapons from EP also had procs which were worth more than 10 ilvls. The staff from Azshara was crazy good in m+ and Divers Folly also did insane AOE damage for rogue and dh. Those weapons you couldn’t get from m+ and even though the ilvl was the same then the actual damage output was much higher than “regular” weapons.

that is true and im not against raids having good stuff. When you lock it behind content that 99.9% of the player base wont even beat like last boss of a mythic raid then I have a problem

[DemonDays]

does corruption even drop on m+ loot I thought it was only weekly chest. The content I want to do that I find fun requires me having the BiS gear or I get kicked to the curb.

Anything can corrupt. Corruption is Titanforging. Why do I have to keep repeating myself.

[Soon-TM]

Legion is the expansion that introduced insane levels of RNG, Titanforging and multiple insane grinds like AP and Legendaries.

You're right, my bad. I edited the post

[Beefkow]

I hope it's gone for good.

I shouldn't be capable of obtaining mythic quality gear from LFR, or even by chance.

If you want top gear, do mythic raids, that's it.

[Volatilis]

Anything can corrupt. Corruption is Titanforging. Why do I have to keep repeating myself.

well that is something I guess.

Im not a fan of corruption even though you want to label me a rng whore. Titanforging is rare, and quite simple and clean. An item that would otherwise be useless might be decent so helping out mates in older content isnt a total wash.

Corruption is gonna be chasing after specific traits with no way of aiming for them. Im not a fan of that. But with TF if I keep running underott I may actually get a decent dagger out of it for example.

[agittunc]

So you like only being able to play one day a week and call that meaningful content because this is what an mmo is?

What non sense. M+ Has been one of the better additions to the game.

Dungeons actually have a place in WoW now outside of the first week of an expansion.

And they tune raids like idiots where half the raid is too easy and the other half is obnoxiously hard so only a tiny % of the playerbase can even complete it. And only a handful can complete it before it gets nerfed.

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I got one weapon from m+ weekly chest over the entire 8.2 life cycle. Forgive me if I dont get giddy at this being the only chance at it.

And I actually like playing the game, if I spam dungeons over and over hoping for a proc thats on me. Waiting for 1 lock out or 1 chest per week isnt why i play video games. I dont have much time so when i do play it I want options.

But I guess options is bad because some raider is butt hurt they didnt ejaculate over their raid loot because someone else got a good item in heroic. Please.

Mythic + is a huge gambleplay in an already oversaturated RNG game. but this time it is endless. like endless paragon in diablo 3. nothing is meaningful in the slightest.
All the gear in BFA has no meaning. they do in classic. why? because of exactly what you dont like. loot scarcity. if things are easy to get they are easily forgotten. this is basic human psychology. classic dungeons are still being done TODAY. how long has the game been out? months. so clearly there is a way to get dungeons being relevant.

how? do NOT make new patches with catchup gear that trivializes earlier tiers of content. catchup gear is supposed to get you a more comfortable start. not a comfortable heroic raider start. that's not how it should work. people should work for their shit. not pull a slot machine and see if things go your way. it never feels meaningful.
__

Doubtful that even one single person ever quit over Titanforging. It was one of the better things they added to WoW, and without it we're just going to go back to WoD levels of logging in, running the relevant raid once, logging out until next week. I'll be getting less for my sub because there will be zero reason to run anything beyond my weekly Mythic raid clear. They'll likely lose people's sub money for months at a time as we cap out on gear and unsub until the next content release, just like in WoD.

Doubtless when this change bites them in the ass they'll pull a quick 180 and re-add Titanforging or something very similar.

Plebs getting a single niece piece of gear per tier on average has never negatively impacted my gameplay, so being emotional about that is just bizarre. The only people who freak out about getting a base tier item are people who are just OCD about those things.

titanforging killed hundreds of guilds because of people quitting over these kinds of systems like titanforging. it was one of the worst things they did to WoW.
WoD wasn't bad because of the raids. it was bad because of garrison. if you were to remove garrisons from the WOD equation it would have given the scarcity i referred to earlier. and make content more MEANINGFUL. the content outside of garrison wasn't even bad. it was over shadowed giving players not a single reason to go out.
titanforging is another slot machine on top of multiple systems that WoW has now. it has no end. it has no BiS anymore. because i can get even better by getting slot machined titanforged crapitems that does nothing but give me a carrot to chase. OH WAIT THATS AZERITE GEAR. ironic much?

"niche piece of gear never negatively impacted my gameplay" it has nothing to do with the gameplay. it has everything to do with the psychology behind it. if you can't understand that basic concept then you should do more research then spout nonsense like that.


__

No. Literally the only people who hated Titanforge were people in the group of players that I'm in, Mythic raiders, and we're an EXTREME minority. You don't have to be in a majority of Blizzard to cave to forum whining, we've seen that repeatedly over the last decade and a half every single time Blizzard would kowtow to those of us at the top at the expense of everyone that actually keeps the game running. Titanforging was a fun and engaging mechanic for everyone that wasn't in that top 5% or so of the playerbase that composes Mythic raiders, and now they'll just come up with something that we hate even more, though they may experiment with an expansion without it.

Remember when the forums whined incessantly about LFR despite LFR participation dwarfing every single other raid difficulty? Remember when Blizzard nerfed it into the ground to appeal to use in WoD and then they lost half their subs in a single quarter? Yeah, listening to the most vocal aspect of this community is not very smart, and pretending that the most vocal aspect of this community is somehow the majority is even less so.

Hello mister mythic raider. here is a reality check. the people that are now still in the game like it. how about the people that have quit? they hate it just as much as you "mythic raider" claim to hate. they just stopped talking about it hence why you don't hear it.
LFR is a decent idea in a terrible setting that destroys the raiding experience. it does everything a normal raids needs to do except the player just pushes a button. there has to be SOME level of prep going into a raid. while i don't particularly enjoy classic's version of it with massive downtimes in between but lets say Firelands. it wasn't hard to get into normal. but it was a heck of a challenge in heroic.

Nobody asks blizzard for a garrison so that you can sit there nonstop. they asked for player housing. that doesn't have to benefit endgame gearing at all. stop acting like this was a way to make more endgame content. it ended up that way on blizzards own stupidity. many people including myself loved WoD raiding. we loathed everything else. and still i rather play WoD then BFA. BFA is the most trash expansion ever released. the systems on top of systems there is no end to it and it's gotten worse in every way.

you're own logic like many others here want to have a mythic weapon in 1 week. why? this content needs to go for months. this hasn't changed since classic times and you see this shift in downtime and preptime between content. i'm not advocating classic being better here. it's a simple comparison on how raids are handled but the content timeline in how long it should be lasting has never changed.

I'll try to make it really easy for you to understand. Titanforging is a system from Diablo 3. One of many cancerous systems ported over to WoW.

The reasons Titanforging don't work in a game like WoW, an MMORPG are as follows:

• WoW is an MMO with WEEKLY lockouts. Diablo 3 has no such lockouts. You can keep running the content over and over and keep pulling the slot machine.
• Insanely heavy RNG just devalues gear overall. There is no excitement anymore.
• Over-abundance of loot devalues gear. Way too much gear is handed out. We have vendored thousands of epics per character since Legion started handing out gear.

These are the main things I can think of right now. I'm sure there are more.

pretty much this. and alot more.

1. weekly lockout means people have a end goal for a week and not be forced to play more because the system demands you to do so. this isn't supposed to be a job.
2. making loot distribution meaningless. personal loot is terrible for high end guilds and it kills mid level guilds that want to create a team that want to actually progress without going to insane lengths to get the loot anyway ( mass split runs ).
3. while overall gameplay has gotten better. classic feel mostly the same now. and it's a damn shame. of course some classes have familiar gameplay styles. but everything feels the same now.

and many more.

[Volatilis]

Mythic + is a huge gambleplay in an already oversaturated RNG game. but this time it is endless. like endless paragon in diablo 3. nothing is meaningful in the slightest.
All the gear in BFA has no meaning. they do in classic. why? because of exactly what you dont like. loot scarcity. if things are easy to get they are easily forgotten. this is basic human psychology. classic dungeons are still being done TODAY. how long has the game been out? months. so clearly there is a way to get dungeons being relevant.

Gear is a tool to me not a check list to complete. That is the difference.

I like having high ilvl so I actually get invited to shit as yet another dps

[Monoxide]

Looking at DPS sims for trinkets in 8.2 all the top simming ones are from raid for my class

So if theres a particularly strong trinket in M+ that people keep going back for each tier like say harlans dice. That isnt actually the "BiS" so you're wasting time you could be using in mythic to get better gear anyway. I havent taken any options away from you.

But this takes away options from players like myself who dont have the time commitments anymore for mythic raiding. Why do I need mythic loot to do m+ when mythic raiding is supposed to be the "highest point of pve" you need to do the highest point in pve to be able to do well in the lower levels? doesnt make sense. Mythic loot should be for doing well in mythic raid. Not everything in the game requires this now.

Why is this a new concept to you? Look at any other activity in life, people that put in more time/effort get a bigger reward. You act like having a full time job makes you a special snowflake. Maybe manage your time better.

It's not like you're expected to be vying for world first. You act like the idea of doing raiding at all in any way shape or form is this giant tax on you. You seriously can't find a day or two each week to set aside two hours?

Maybe you really can't. Sad day for you.

Lets both start reading a book at the same time and you read for 20 minutes a day and I'll read for 2 hours a day and we can see how it goes. Are you going to complain that I finished and moved on to the sequal a year before you? Your fault, not mine.


It makes me think back to games like Mario or Zelda, you didn't get to fight the final boss just because you bought the game. You actually had to invest time into beating the entire game.

You pay the same sub as everyone else, and have access to the same content as everyone else. It's your choice on how you interact with the game.

[Volatilis]

Why is this a new concept to you? Look at any other activity in life, people that put in more time/effort get a bigger reward. You act like having a full time job makes you a special snowflake. Maybe manage your time better.

It's not like you're expected to be vying for world first. You act like the idea of doing raiding at all in any way shape or form is this giant tax on you. You seriously can't find a day or two each week to set aside two hours?

Maybe you really can't. Sad day for you.

Lets both start reading a book at the same time and you read for 20 minutes a day and I'll read for 2 hours a day and we can see how it goes. Are you going to complain that I finished and moved on to the sequal a year before you? Your fault, not mine.


It makes me think back to games like Mario or Zelda, you didn't get to fight the final boss just because you bought the game. You actually had to invest time into beating the entire game.

You pay the same sub as everyone else, and have access to the same content as everyone else. It's your choice on how you interact with the game.

if it was two hours when you felt like it great, but its not you have to raid with 19 other people who all have to agree to log on at the same time. If you cant see how this may not work for people in 2020 then maybe your life isnt as full as you think. Id rather do a +15 run when I have time and call it a night. Thanks though

[agittunc]

Gear is a tool to me not a check list to complete. That is the difference.

I like having high ilvl so I actually get invited to shit as yet another dps

understandable. but i encourage you to log into classic. and try to see if people are looking for "ilvl". they don't, because the content doesn't force you to get people to be that ilvl to go faster. it's hard enough for people to just say : "fuck it invite them". while being easy enough to do them without feeling like some crazy m+100 dungeon. it's good design. ilvl in retail has been bad for a long time.

[Volatilis]

understandable. but i encourage you to log into classic. and try to see if people are looking for "ilvl". they don't, because the content doesn't force you to get people to be that ilvl to go faster. it's hard enough for people to just say : "fuck it invite them". while being easy enough to do them without feeling like some crazy m+100 dungeon. it's good design. ilvl in retail has been bad for a long time.

I played classic and the modern community made gearing a even more painful process where no one wants competition with rolling on the item so you dont even end up going unless you want to spend an hour forming a group. I did all that in 2006 when I was a teen. The game had moved on from that with new additions like m+ and new gearing systems

[Gorsameth]

Imagine being in a guild but having a job where your on call so you can't guarantee 100% attendance so you don't want to be a leech and waste a spot so you focus on content like high m+ keys instead. But now that is lame because you only need to run one a week then log out and wait. Imagine

If your focus on the game is M+ then M+ will provide the gear you need to do M+.

[SirCowdog]

Yes I'm trolling because it's annoying I have to do last two mythic bosses for weapons so I can do the content I actually want to do which is m± and as a melee dps weapon is quite important and I'll be lucky to get one last boss mythic kill let alone enough to farm it. And I bet 99% of players will be in the same boat. Ffs man don't be so lame. They could at least make mythic bosses loot the same ilvl so I can do first 3 bosses that are under tuned. Get my weapon and not have to go back like most "mythic" raiders/guilds do and then claim thier a mythic guild

I think you missed the point. Actually, I think you missed both points.

First, you are just one person. You don't represent the entire playerbase. And no, just saying "99% of players will be in the same boat" isn't valid. It's just you doing what I said you were probably doing: Stirring things up; in this case with hyperbole.

Second: You want to do M+....ok. That's cool! I actually like M+. But you're point is not that titanforging is good. It's that you can't get the weapon you want from the content you want from M+ and have to go to Mythic raiding(where presumably you think a titanforge will happen on a lucky weapon drop in the first 3 bosses?). But rather than actually make THAT argument, and push for better or more fair drops in M+, you decide to roll over to the forums and make up some garbage about how "Good" titanforging is. And you don't even do so in a cogent manner, forcing people like me to try and interpret your bad grammar, muddying the situation even worse.

So yeah, I couldn't tell if you were trolling or not. I think probably you didn't intend to, now that you've responded. I think, however, that you're just complaining in a poor manner, and not expressing yourself well or actually addressing the problem you REALLY have.

Titanforging is a bad system in WoW. The person who already laid out the example of how it was ported from Diablo 3 is all the explanation you need for why this is.

[agittunc]

I played classic and the modern community made gearing a even more painful process where no one wants competition with rolling on the item so you dont even end up going unless you want to spend an hour forming a group. I did all that in 2006 when I was a teen. The game had moved on from that with new additions like m+ and new gearing systems

that's exactly why a system was created to counter this. called a guild, you make/join a guild that you can have people playing together. the modern gaming community you referred to are used to blasting through everything and getting millions of pieces of gear. they get thrown into a classic wow situation and they feel like this is harder to get we must have no competition. this is a logical reaction from a playerbase that is so used to get shit for most little effort.

i know this guild argument gets thrown around a lot. but like i said content timelines were never changed. so new things had to be made in order to fill that gap. if you really think classic content is harder then retail because it takes longer makes no sense. it was designed to be played casually. it was never intented to be a competitive game like bfa is. but the core concepts are in bfa. your new gearing systems has no place in a game design like wow because it was never designed that way from the start.

thats why a game like diablo does benefit from those systems. the design is different.

guilds and players in it will not be so picky and are willing to help you. that is how the content timelines back then were filled up. people playing together. thats the argument being made by 2006 players that people used to be more communicative. whereas now people can get their gear in 2 hours without even making any contact.

[DemonDays]

well that is something I guess.

Im not a fan of corruption even though you want to label me a rng whore. Titanforging is rare, and quite simple and clean. An item that would otherwise be useless might be decent so helping out mates in older content isnt a total wash.

Corruption is gonna be chasing after specific traits with no way of aiming for them. Im not a fan of that. But with TF if I keep running underott I may actually get a decent dagger out of it for example.

Yeah but how can you not see it's the same thing?

You still had to pray for an item to drop and then pray it also titan-forged.

It's exactly the same. Seriously..... It's still a Casino.

[SirCowdog]

Well duh. The point wasn't that we're a hivemind (on the contrary I doubt there's a single thing WoW players are unified on), but simply an observation that we always see these sorts of topics when things/features are removed.

As I've said probably a thousand times on this forum, Blizz can't please everyone no matter what they do.

And yeah, its entirely possible that the OP is just trying to sound contrarian and trigger the 'burn TFing with fire!' crowd here, but you never know.

And I guess my point was that while Blizzard can't please everyone, they can at least look at the overall trends of what MOST players agree on. Titanforging is one of those things. Sure, a few people like the OP(who appears to actually have a very different problem than titanforging) are going to claim to like it. But when you look at the general player response to it, it's negative.

To reiterate: Blizzard doesn't need to please everyone. But they definitely should look at overarching themes and reactions to steer the game in a better overall direction.

[agittunc]

I think you missed the point. Actually, I think you missed both points.

First, you are just one person. You don't represent the entire playerbase. And no, just saying "99% of players will be in the same boat" isn't valid. It's just you doing what I said you were probably doing: Stirring things up; in this case with hyperbole.

Second: You want to do M+....ok. That's cool! I actually like M+. But you're point is not that titanforging is good. It's that you can't get the weapon you want from the content you want from M+ and have to go to Mythic raiding(where presumably you think a titanforge will happen on a lucky weapon drop in the first 3 bosses?). But rather than actually make THAT argument, and push for better or more fair drops in M+, you decide to roll over to the forums and make up some garbage about how "Good" titanforging is. And you don't even do so in a cogent manner, forcing people like me to try and interpret your bad grammar, muddying the situation even worse.

So yeah, I couldn't tell if you were trolling or not. I think probably you didn't intend to, now that you've responded. I think, however, that you're just complaining in a poor manner, and not expressing yourself well or actually addressing the problem you REALLY have.

Titanforging is a bad system in WoW. The person who already laid out the example of how it was ported from Diablo 3 is all the explanation you need for why this is.

couldn't have said it better myself. compliments ( compliments are also important ^^ )

Yeah but how can you not see it's the same thing?

You still had to pray for an item to drop and then pray it also titan-forged.

It's exactly the same. Seriously..... It's still a Casino.

pretty much. it's like looking at a phone case for your new iphone or galaxy. same thing. but now it's a different phone case.

it doesn't change anything.

[Marrilaife]

You can get "mythic raid equivalent" ilvl from weekly m+ chest. Which is more than fair because not every week you get a useful piece drop from a mythic raid, especially early on when many guilds are stuck a couple of bosses in.

Titanforge provided unfair advantage to nolifers who could spam content 24/7, often trivial content but churn through 100s of items and some of them were bound to titanforge.

I wouldn't mind if mythic+ gave items same level as mythic raiding, if it had the same difficulty level and the same restrictions as mythic raiding, i.e. weekly lockout / cap and no "endless spam" mode. Nowhere in wow before m+ you could get uncapped amounts of competitive gear. Raiding and pvp always had weekly caps and lockouts.

[kaminaris]

And I guess my point was that while Blizzard can't please everyone, they can at least look at the overall trends of what MOST players agree on. Titanforging is one of those things. Sure, a few people like the OP(who appears to actually have a very different problem than titanforging) are going to claim to like it. But when you look at the general player response to it, it's negative.

To reiterate: Blizzard doesn't need to please everyone. But they definitely should look at overarching themes and reactions to steer the game in a better overall direction.

That's laughable, you don't know what most players agree on, stop with this nonsense.

Corruption is even worse system than titanforging, and most people who complained about titanforging simply don't know the math at all.

[Volatilis]

Yeah but how can you not see it's the same thing?

You still had to pray for an item to drop and then pray it also titan-forged.

It's exactly the same. Seriously..... It's still a Casino.

Not really though. It bumped up bad items so they werent so bad.

People talk about that nightmare scenerio titanforge normal raid trinket that is better than the mythic version!!! So they just couldnt enjoy their mythic raid loot which can also TF but with a much higher base. But that doesnt actually happen anyway, you still needed to do heroic or +10 mythics to get anything meaningful and how is that not end game content that should reward good shit.

Mythic should be for the challenge and prestige so you can say "look at me im the best". You dont need ilvl for that, that is why they get the coolest xmog of the tier, titles and mounts and achievements. But mythic raiders want everything even though half of mythic raids are incredibly easy and the other half like the final bosses are tuned like a joke so they can add artificial length to the raid tier rather than an enjoyable challenge

Titanforge this expansion was way more tame than in legion, especially for weapons.