Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Belize]

A summary would be nice for those of us not watching.

Not only was Trump in the loop about the Ukraine stuff, a lot of it was his idea, and Pence was super in the know also.

[cubby]

Well, he won't have long in the spotlight; Republicans break with Robert Hyde, latest player in Ukraine drama

Congressional Republicans are distancing themselves from Robert Hyde, a controversial House candidate and GOP donor who has become the latest figure to get wrapped up in the Ukraine saga that led to President Donald Trump’s impeachment.

The top three Republican leaders in the House — Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy of California, Minority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana and GOP Conference Chairwoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming — all said they don’t know Hyde and don’t support him, according to their offices.

And the Republican Party chairman in Connecticut, where Hyde is one of several Republicans vying to challenge Democratic Rep. Jahana Hayes this fall, is calling on Hyde to drop out of the race.

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His next job is to play the perfect patsy... the fall guy for what's going down.

Normally, I would agree. But I don't think team Trump is smart enough to have played this out to see the need for a patsy, and therefore the evidence (i.e. reality) will contradict their contrived story.

[Zaydin]

Lev Parnas also stated in his interview with Rachael Maddow that the investigations Trump wanted in Ukraine had nothing to do with corruption and everything to do with the Bidens and getting the announcement of an investigation into them.

Not a shock to those of us in the reality-based community, mind, but it'll be a rude awakening for the Trump cult.

[swiftowner]

Not only was Trump in the loop about the Ukraine stuff, a lot of it was his idea, and Pence was super in the know also.

O’rly now? So could we possibly see him receive impeachment as well? I mean, I feel like this falls under high crimes etc. Even if he was not directing people, if he knew what was going on, he was complicit in allowing it to continue instead of blowing the whistle on it or simply telling them to stop.

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Lev Parnas also stated in his interview with Rachael Maddow that the investigations Trump wanted in Ukraine had nothing to do with corruption and everything to do with the Bidens and getting the announcement of an investigation into them.

Not a shock to those of us in the reality-based community, mind, but it'll be a rude awakening for the Trump cult.

Clearly he’s a deep state Democrat planted in Trump’s circle.

Edit: (Hopefully /s is not required)

[Fugus]

Not only was Trump in the loop about the Ukraine stuff, a lot of it was his idea, and Pence was super in the know also.

Thanks, been unable to keep track of all this stuff recently with a LOT of real life stuff keeping my attention, so this place and another politics section I frequent are my main news sources right now.

This place makes actually one of the better news sources I have come across.

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And with all this new stuff coming out and even implicating Pence. My next question....

How much did McConnell know and WHEN did he know?

[Zaydin]

O’rly now? So could we possibly see him receive impeachment as well? I mean, I feel like this falls under high crimes etc. Even if he was not directing people, if he knew what was going on, he was complicit in allowing it to continue instead of blowing the whistle on it or simply telling them to stop.

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Clearly he’s a deep state Democrat planted in Trump’s circle.

Edit: (Hopefully /s is not required)

Parnas also said that Ukraine getting the military aid was predicated on them giving Trump the investigation announcements he wanted. Again, not a shock to the reality based community but another rude awakening for Trump World.

[cubby]

Thanks, been unable to keep track of all this stuff recently with a LOT of real life stuff keeping my attention, so this place and another politics section I frequent are my main news sources right now.

This place makes actually one of the better news sources I have come across.

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And with all this new stuff coming out and even implicating Pence. My next question....

How much did McConnell know and WHEN did he know?

Agreed regarding good sources of information.

I would bet McConnell is actually free and clear of the Ukraine mess. This seems to be mostly an Executive Branch recipe with a touch of insecure Congressmen for spice. Now, the NRA and the payoff for his wife being SecTrans is an entirely different matter.

[Eviscero]

So much confirmation of everything we know, so much more new damning information implicating many other people, so many new witnesses to subpoena. This interview is a fucking nuke on the administration.

The info on Nunes is spectacular. I am almost stunned speechless by the brazenness of that scumbag.

[Fugus]

Agreed regarding good sources of information.

I would bet McConnell is actually free and clear of the Ukraine mess. This seems to be mostly an Executive Branch recipe with a touch of insecure Congressmen for spice. Now, the NRA and the payoff for his wife being SecTrans is an entirely different matter.

Oh yeah. I TRULY hope they actually start launching investigations into him after all of this is said and done.

Also, after this, I hope they eventually try and turn the DOJ into a 4th branch of government that the President have zero control over.

[cubby]

Oh yeah. I TRULY hope they actually start launching investigations into him after all of this is said and done.

Also, after this, I hope they eventually try and turn the DOJ into a 4th branch of government that the President have zero control over.

Agreed on both. The Truth and Reconciliation Committee will take decades to resolve the horror Trump wrong upon this country.

And yeah, it's way past time to make the DOJ an independent department.

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The DoJ shouldn’t be another branch of government any more than the military. It just has no place being under the President’s authority.

Then the only place it could reside is under the SCOTUS. Which would work, too.

[Fugus]

The DoJ shouldn’t be another branch of government any more than the military. It just has no place being under the President’s authority.

Well, the current administration has already proven that it can't function properly under the administration as corrupt as this with what he has done, especially with Barr.

It can't be under the Senate as old Moscow Mitch the Bitch has shown they can be and they can't function under Congress as the Republicans shown how to abuse it for 2 years before losing the majority.

It can't properly function under either of them given what has been shown with the GOP in power.

It needs to operate separately from all of them.


Where would you put them then since all 3 of them are off the table of viable options?

[cubby]

No, that would be worse. You don’t have the judges in charge of the people who bring them cases. That’s even worse than the current structure.

Fun conversation here - just shit over other's ideas without suggestions of your own. Maybe pony up since you obviously have other ideas....

I'm sure one of the many fallouts after the Committee is established because of the Impeachment will be a recommendation of a more independent DoJ.

[Fugus]

Fun conversation here - just shit over other's ideas without suggestions of your own. Maybe pony up since you obviously have other ideas....

I'm sure one of the many fallouts after the Committee is established because of the Impeachment will be a recommendation of a more independent DoJ.

Personally, I would say to have them be an independent branch of elected officials or force them to be made up of equal parts of both parties on the board and it only takes 30% to actually initiate something so that we don't have a single party moving in lockstep like we have had the Republicans do for the past decade+ to try and block everything.

[eschatological]

No, that would be worse. You don’t have the judges in charge of the people who bring them cases. That’s even worse than the current structure.

That's exactly how most of the world does it, where prosecution is not an adversarial system, but a civil system of judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys working together.

Personally, if DoJ was to be under one branch, I'd think it should be the Legislative, IE Congress.

[Fugus]

Explicit independence with oversight done by congress. They just don’t have any place being in the set of checks and balances the three branches already have..

Not possible as their head becomes another nomination from Congress or the Senate or we end up with another Barr situation with another fuck up in charge.

And why wouldn't the have any place on being one of the checks and balances against the others? If Congress screws around, they could intervene on the individuals doing so without having to worry about the Senate screwing around or the president.

This would be an added check on that power. It isn't like they are able to choose who replaces them. It just stops stuff like this or stuff were we have indefinite ACTING positions because those in power refuse to do their damn job due to partisan issues.

[Fugus]

Having the judges in charge of law enforcement is different than them being in charge of those tasked with arguing cases before them. And if you’ll see my next post that’s exactly what I recommended with regards to Congress.

When I say making them their own branch, I didn't mean giving them direct control over the judges, I meant in their capacity to investigate things independently without interference from the other branches and no person in power there could be chosen from the other branches either.

[cubby]

Explicit independence with oversight done by congress. They just don’t have any place being in the set of checks and balances the three branches already have.

No way oversight with Congress. Terrible idea as well. Best place is under Judiciary, with a nomination and term limit set up for the top spot. IIRC there was a thread about this awhile back....

But I definitely think the DoJ will come under heavy scrutiny after the Impeachment and removal (most likely by election) of Trump.

[Stormdash]

Your daily reminder that the White House is the only source of governing legitimacy for any agency of the executive branch, cabinet level on down, and most of them were invented out of whole cloth within the last 80-90 years.

Well, Nancy sure showed Mitch, huh? So leverage, much pressure.

[cubby]

Maybe take some civics classes before continuing to post from a place of ignorance. And see my above post kiddo.

No need to lash out, I was a little overboard there - but it does suck when the conversation is just one-sided for ideas. I'm the epitome of having taken civics classes, btw.

[Fugus]

Yeah, giving law enforcement no oversight is fucking stupid. See the current levels of abuse for reference.

Who said they would have no oversight? If they overstepped their authority, you would have it where the other branches could intervene.

Allowing them to be under the authority of the president with a partisan majority in the senate is giving them no effective oversight.

Allowing them to remain under the president after the abuse it has shown has proven to be even MORE stupid and leading to levels of abuse we are currently seeing.

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Your daily reminder that the White House is the only source of governing legitimacy for any agency of the executive branch, cabinet level on down, and most of them were invented out of whole cloth within the last 80-90 years.

Well, Nancy sure showed Mitch, huh? So leverage, much pressure.

Well, delaying them did allow more to come out, but honestly think Pelosi is doing it wrong on this one. I already mentioned earlier how they could do it to truly screw up McConnell's whole year. She has the leverage if she just has a clue how to use it.