I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[crusadernero]

I hear this same shit so much I just don't even care anymore lol

-Multiboxxing is cheating
-Tradeskillmaster is cheating
-Raider IO destroyed the game
-Bring back mage towers
-Bring back MoP CM gear
-Bring back WoD CM weapons
-Flying ruined world pvp

I think pathfinder QQ is going to make it on the list eventually

I'm going to keep this list updated, I'm probably forgetting some.

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Did a blue say this?

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You forgot cuck, but I don't think cuck was around for long. Do people still say boomer? I added that to my badboy so I don't see it in game anymore and I don't recall seeing it much on forums.

You seriously think Activison Blizzard will skip launching BC again for the quick dollar?

They already stated that most of the legwork was done to implement BC when they worked out the stuff with Classic. It will require alot less work from them to release BC than it did for classic.

Also, after the experience they had with classic relaunch and the boost that gave them, its a no brainer.

The risky choice would be to release new content for classic. A risky move I dont think Activison Blizzard dare to do.

Its not really a question of IF but WHEN. Classic still has alot of content to be released so we are talking probably two years before we see BC servers live.

But I refuse to think they wont go for that quick cashgrab. People will flock to it.

[kranur]

You seriously think Activison Blizzard will skip launching BC again for the quick dollar?

They already stated that most of the legwork was done to implement BC when they worked out the stuff with Classic. It will require alot less work from them to release BC than it did for classic.

Also, after the experience they had with classic relaunch and the boost that gave them, its a no brainer.

The risky choice would be to release new content for classic. A risky move I dont think Activison Blizzard dare to do.

Its not really a question of IF but WHEN. Classic still has alot of content to be released so we are talking probably two years before we see BC servers live.

But I refuse to think they wont go for that quick cashgrab. People will flock to it.

They would have to be dumb to release new content for classic from the position they are in. They have a game in which to throw new content and they are at a time where anything and everything they release is bitched and cried upon (be it for good reasons or not so good reasons), and all that without having a purist crowd involved. And I'm pretty sure that if it happens, no matter how they may handle new classic content, there is going to be that crowd that's like "What the fuck, we wanted classic! What are you doing?" and for good reason.

BC servers will have more variables in it. A lot of it is how classic and shadowlands do, if somehow shadowlands is an extraordinary expansion and classic does not die out 6-12 months into the final stage, then there's not much reason to release BC, unless somehow there is a super high outside of classic and retail demand for BC.
They have nothing to gain if they shift players from retail and classic to BC, it's the ones that aren't subbed they are after.

The ultimate goal is to get everyone in retail of course. A lot more opportunity to throw character services, mounts and toys then there is in classic/bc.

[Drusin]

You seriously think Activison Blizzard will skip launching BC again for the quick dollar?

They already stated that most of the legwork was done to implement BC when they worked out the stuff with Classic. It will require alot less work from them to release BC than it did for classic.

Also, after the experience they had with classic relaunch and the boost that gave them, its a no brainer.

The risky choice would be to release new content for classic. A risky move I dont think Activison Blizzard dare to do.

Its not really a question of IF but WHEN. Classic still has alot of content to be released so we are talking probably two years before we see BC servers live.

But I refuse to think they wont go for that quick cashgrab. People will flock to it.

I was just wondering if you saw them say it somewhere broski not that I don't think it'll happen lol. I'd personally be happy to play SL/SL

They already stated that most of the legwork was done to implement BC when they worked out the stuff with Classic.

Tell them to implement a way to go back to pre shattering zones in retail too while they are at it.

[Necromantic]

Flying did not destroy world pvp.

So much this. Flying in TBC did not destroy world PVP. It did cut down on griefing.

Also, the OP is wrong. Vanilla was the least casual friendly part of WoW. Most classes could not solo elite quests. Most anything you wanted had to be done with groups. At least in TBC, I could solo dailies or farm rep and acquire things on my own.

Heroics in TBC were a great idea. I am a dungeon lover and of course, at some point the gear you get from normal dungeons is obsolete. Heroics gave you an opportunity to get purple gear without having to commit to raiding, which even at that point was done by a small % of players. I liked that you could only do the heroic once per day. Spamming the same dungeon all day until you get your drop just expedites the whole "i'm done... now what?" thing. Even the fact that you had to farm for exalted before you could run made you have to do some work to get there... and work you could do solo.

[crusadernero]

I was just wondering if you saw them say it somewhere broski not that I don't think it'll happen lol. I'd personally be happy to play SL/SL



Tell them to implement a way to go back to pre shattering zones in retail too while they are at it.

Dont have time to find where they said it, but it was around the time classic got released. In a interview done and released right before launch. The hard work for most of it was done with classic, BC would be fairly easy to launch.

With that said; It all depends on how well retail and classic does. ideally, I imagine Blizzard want most(All) players to be on retail instead of having to relaunch old xpacs.

If classic all dies out in 1-2 years, they gotta factor than in too for BC.. But time will show!

[Cracked]

Flying destroyed world pvp

Yeah, look at classic wow now, I'm sure it was flying that destroyed world pvp ..

[Fahrenheit]

I thought TBC was kinda trash tbh. I mean it cleaned up some stuff that was way wrong in classic (itemization issues galore), but besides that, blah expansion. TBC was the cause of me quitting WoW for the first time, for about a full calendar year.

[Necromantic]

I'm sure it would be just as or easier to code. They just have to ensure it's good for business. Sure, there are quite a few who want it but they have to be assured it will be enough to justify the development. Even if a bunch of people scream for something, public companies won't do it if it doesn't help the bottom line.

[last1214]

Im not quite sure how much i cared to play vanilla servers to be honest. I mostly started because i want to eventually play TBC. Turns out vanilla is pretty ok, and i still cant wait to play TBC.

[Nynax]

I hate tbc...loathe it. It destroyed wow.

Ah yes, the expansion that only saw an absolutely massive increase in the number of players. Yup, that's the one, that one ruined WoW.

[Amarys]

I dislike TBC as well as it made a number of huge mistakes that made the game a lot worse and were never fully fixed.

1. Flying.. already mentioned by several and even while some try to handwave it away with "lol this again", it doesn't make it any less true.

2. Exponential power growth.

3. E-sports, homogenized gear, classes, class abilities, focus on endgame only. They basically traded a huge world for a few instanced activities and 9 classes for 4.

4. Neglect of old content. Many MMOs manage to keep all areas, professions, trade goods and content relevant.

5. Mounts! I hate mounts! They're all exactly the same (with a few exceptions like the Sky Golem)yet for some reason they're now the ultimate reward for hard content, achies, big grinds etc. TBC started this with those netherwing dragons.

[Cockus Maximus]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else. If raiding was the primary thing you did in WoW you usually loved it. Everything I say past here doesn't matter to you, because TBC might be the best raid/pve game ever made for a "raiding is all that matters" player. If PVE wasn't your primary focus, you can easily view it as highly overrated and point out that it started many of the systems and things that would eventually destroy WoW as we knew it.

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

Arena gear/arena led to the changes that destroyed Alterac Valley. ALL players gravitated towards the honor per minute idea to get the resilience gear they needed to start arena, instead of just having fun. Take the mentally ill repeat rank 14 grinders and give that mindset to ALL the players and that is what BG's became. Keep in mind that AV was cleverly designed to get pve players into pvp and that is ceased to exist as intended in TBC and the playerbase became very split with pvp and pve players. This got worse every expansion and now players who used to all be one big, awesome community are split into little groups.

Professions mean very little in pvp because world pvp is dead. Why bother. Rocketboots could be used if I remember right in arena, but could backfire. Hand enchants I think could be used to, but it really didn't matter. I hated arena and tried to block out every time I would get myself or someone else the 1850 weapon. The rest was a waste of time. I also usually played double dps because running around a pole for a long time was awful.

Arena becomes the barometer for everything, due to a dumb rating that autistic kids and streamers who helped ruin WoW, can brag about as they run around a pole with a healer in most comps (other than spriest, rogue, mage). Very few comps are viable and the pvp is awful and the makers of the original WoW said arena was a mistake.
engadget.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/[/url]

The better arena got, the more classes all became the same, which breaks and ruins larger forms of pvp and the "fun factor" and uniqueness of classes. The original designers knew this would happen. Fast forward and we now have unkillable healers when crosshealing happens in a BG or a 1 v 1 happens due to every class having to all have the same CC and chains. PvP outside of 3 v 3 is now GARBAGE. Healers HAVE to be OP in all other scenarios, just so a failed esport can continue.

Segregation of the playerbase happens for the first time with Arena and Heroics. This was not that big a problem in TBC because you only had heroic dungeons and one difficulty of raids. Now we have LFR, normal, heroic, mythic, mythic plus. It's just stupid.

Dailies start as a big thing in TBC. This is what happens when you break world pvp and segregate the playerbase to cater to the "eltiist jerks" (who now run WoW btw). You need dumbed down repeatable, zombie like content for the "casuals" or really nice people who weren't that great mechanically, who actually have very little to do in modern WoW. They eventually get bored/quit and all you are left with in the modern game is LFR/daily zombies who listen to streamers they are so bored and the 1 percent that no one could stand to be around in vanilla.

In vanilla these mechanically deficient players could be "carried" but no one said carried because people weren't all aholes and they could contribute big time to a guild through professions, farming, running 5 mans and gearing up offtanks and dps. They could also pvp with you, world pvp, have consumables that gave them an edge etc. Modern WoW literally separates you from people you grew up playing this game with and rewards you for abandoning them with progression. Vanilla never did that.

People claim vanilla was not casual friendly. That's complete BS. It had the most to do for casual players of any expansion. Everything took time, but you always had something to do.

TLDR. TBC introduced too many catch up systems, flying killed world pvp, arena killed classes being unique and broke all other forums of pvp except 3 v 3, segregation of pve content got out of control eventually and further led to class homogenization, it was the first implemenation of a group finder (no one used it), dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

I agree with most of what you said. Resilience wasn't the greatest idea imo. Flying was cool but limited player interaction. The worst change was LFG in wotlk though. That should've never been available until max level. Ideally I'd like a patch that keeps most of the Classic stuff intact but applies the class mechanics of the TBC patch. Feral Druids would be worth playing, Demonology Warlocks would have Felguards, and Shadow Priests can be the mana batteries they were always meant to be.

[deceptacon1]

I was down with vanilla (played for a few months) and was happy to throw my lot in with the vanilla boys. But if the vanilla boys are going to crap on TBC as the logical next step to wow classic then we got a problem.

Vanilla is okay but would pale in comparison to the eventual progression from TBC to eventually WOTLK which is where I see this show heading. If you try to stop it then we got issues bruh.

[Utrrabbit]

Please. Tbc was shit.

Wrath was the one that saw the increase.

Bc saw a decrease in subs for a while till wrath came put.

[Zarator8]

Please. Tbc was shit.

Wrath was the one that saw the increase.

Bc saw a decrease in subs for a while till wrath came put.

Come again?

[jackofwind]

5. Mounts! I hate mounts! They're all exactly the same (with a few exceptions like the Sky Golem)yet for some reason they're now the ultimate reward for hard content, achies, big grinds etc. TBC started this with those netherwing dragons.

Vanilla started this with the Winterspring cat, ZG mounts and Rivendare's spoopyhorse. Mounts have always been for prestige.

[blankfaced]

Was never a raider and i say you're wrong about TBC. Some of the most enjoyable times in pvp in that expansion occured.

[Relapses]

Come again?

Damn, according to this graph we're at like -30 million subscribers by now.

[arkanon]

Damn, according to this graph we're at like -30 million subscribers by now.

this graph makes me laugh. Why isnt there a spike up for the launch of "the future?" the data shows there should be an increase, but they choose to completely ignore that and push a narrative. Almost like they are bias......interesting. Also, as you point out, their data has us at 1m subs 5 years ago.

[Amarys]

Vanilla started this with the Winterspring cat, ZG mounts and Rivendare's spoopyhorse. Mounts have always been for prestige.

Yea but they were just small side/easter egg kinda things. Almost zero design was put behind them aside from just adding a recolored mount that was already in game into a drop table, or adding a few lines of text to a NPC.

Also no one really cared about those mounts and they didn't give you much prestige in the real Classic. If you had someone in T2-AQ40-Naxx gear standing next to some nub in blues with those mounts, no one would even pay attention to the mounts.

TBC changed that by making grinding mounts into an actual content with that island and its dailies in Shadowmoon and it only got worse after that. Mounts started appearing as exalted rewards with factions, from hard grinds, rewards from achies once they were introduced.