Exiting the Vampires Castle; Understanding Social Justice Culture

[Clone]

Some of the most dishonest tripe and Bullshit, with mind numbing stupid anecdotes and the only people reading this shit are those who are already looking for confirmation bias.

Let me shorten what this OP is about to save people some time.

It's another cry for attention try hard take on obviously internet culture trying to present people genuinely reacting to bad actors and people who do shitty things as leftist or liberals going over board in some kind of monolithic conspiratorial think tank.

The author is an idiot, and his pronouncement of liberals and leftist culture. Pretty much turns a blind eye and ignores internet culture in general.

Bottom line Liberals aren't tolerant enough of intolerant racist, sexist, homophobic bigots who are offended everyone else isn't racist, sexist or homophobic and doesn't find any of it funny.`

You know people that actually have an education and see the real results of the long history of this shit and want change, and those that are like "Why So Serious" "It's all jokes Bruh".


TLDR Go with the flow, I like this person so they can't be racist sexist, or a homophobic asshole who should choose not to be when relating to others

I had a feeling this was the case, thanks.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I had a feeling this was the case, thanks.

The bait here isn't really clear intentionally, however the best remedy for this is to counter punch and play your own game. Some here have pointed out the dishonsty of some posters here and you really can't expect any different.

Asking loaded questions or misinterpreting information only to use hyperbole to dress up a bait strawman. It's the kind of shit manipulators and those who double speak use especially online.

Some say don't take the bait, I would say take the bait pull them into the topic they made rather than the loaded bullshit they intended.

Of what I just said only a handful understand what I'm saying and it looks like others notice or are pointing it out.

There is a reason the OP is a fucking wall of text.

[Levelfive]

I had a feeling this was the case, thanks.

That is definitely not the case. The author was clearly not an idiot--he was bright, thoughtful, and impassioned, made a nuanced, not unreasonable critique of a subset of a subset of the left, and ended with ideas for how to do better. Theo tried to pretend it was blaming the left for the incarnation of whatever it is the right has descended into lately, because Theo, and the person you responded to seems to be responding to something else, frankly.

[Kraenen]

But, rather than seeking a world in which everyone achieves freedom from identitarian classification, the Vampires’ Castle seeks to corral people back into identi-camps, where they are forever defined in the terms set by dominant power, crippled by self-consciousness and isolated by a logic of solipsism which insists that we cannot understand one another unless we belong to the same identity group.

This is partly what strikes me the most, but I shouldn't be surprised. This type of person more likely believes we're defined by the society around us. So how much of a shock would it be when they try to wrap their hands around this kind of power?

So no, not really. Because if the left had stayed in their lane, we'd still be (we are still doing it, but whatever) telling people how they want to take your money, take your guns, indoctrinate your children, make you a drone etc. etc.. Now praise god, work hard and vote conservative, or else!

There will always be propagandists. What happens when you provide them more fuel by actually doing those things?

The rise of nationalists, be they white or any other colour, is mostly a loss of prospect, wealth and their standing in society. All three are hard to solve, especially the last one.

This seems to be in partial agreement, at least the last part. Being the target of mainstream, urban culture that continues to marginalize is synonymous with losing standing in society. The left's general agenda of redistributing money from certain demographics (along with new interest in reparations) will directly target more people who are already close to the edge. I probably agree generally about these factors promoting supremacists (nationalists aren't really what we're talking about here). But oddly enough islamists (just islamic supremacists really) don't seem to come about from the same factors as white supremacists (having generally decent wealth and familial standing), and shouldn't we be seeing a constant surge in black nationalism?

[Howel]

To be fair to Obama; the GOP did him dirty and dedicated ALL of their efforts to fucking with him. I will grant Obama some leniency there, the GOP basically was committed to a scorched Earth policy against him.

But to be judgemental; his heart wasn't in it for real changes. Minor crumbs to me don't matter when in the macro you are dooming those same people. His actions on the 2008 Economic meltdown were a betrayal so great and unforgivable that any action after would have to be amazing to truly counter that. It is akin to a serial child molester giving a can of soup to a charity..... yeah that's nice. But the dude still diddles kids every day. And if the effect can't be tracked, than its not really a material benefit, its at best a psychic benefit to some marginal number of people.

I will certainly agree, that he didn't have true conviction in it; because he seemed to always want to be moderate (which is both a curse and blessing in itself), and it left him neglecting his core message.

The economic crisis, and its aftermath; I will both agree and disagree that it was handled poorly. Do note that it wasn't just Obama, and that he did at least implement a few policies that would oversee and prevent such actions for happening again (Trump being Trump, of course got rid of those, along with neutering the SEC), but it was not enough, nor harsh enough, that much I will absolutely agree with.

- - - Updated - - -

There will always be propagandists. What happens when you provide them more fuel by actually doing those things?

Well that's the thing, any and all actions will be propagandized to suit your cause. If social justice didn't exist, or disappeared tomorrow, the propaganda wouldn't suddenly stop or be any less.
That's the beauty of having been alive for as long as I have, and been involved with politics all my adult life; I've seen us move in accordance with what the left was currently running on.
Heck my favourite is still a almost 3 decade old saying about the green parties, "green on the outside, red on the inside". We called them communists, because they wanted to address legit concerns, but wouldn't do through the free market, so they were dirty communists.

This seems to be in partial agreement, at least the last part. Being the target of mainstream, urban culture that continues to marginalize is synonymous with losing standing in society. The left's general agenda of redistributing money from certain demographics (along with new interest in reparations) will directly target more people who are already close to the edge. I probably agree generally about these factors promoting supremacists (nationalists aren't really what we're talking about here). But oddly enough islamists (just islamic supremacists really) don't seem to come about from the same factors as white supremacists (having generally decent wealth and familial standing), and shouldn't we be seeing a constant surge in black nationalism?

The targeting of mainstrean, urban culture that marginalizes, is the one thing that I'd say is probably somewhat harmful. But I say somewhat, because it is this weird thing where, white straight actors, leads etc. etc., is still vastly representative, more so than the actual average. So it is still there, in full existence. That the marginalization exists, I am personally against, and glad that is something that has ever really taken hook here.
Redistribution is an interesting one, because you are right, it can come from those already close to the edge. But if they pass it, they tend to then fall into the group, and are basically receiving what they paid. But ultimately, it often times doesn't, it comes from those who have their fair share of the cake, and are so far removed from any edges that it will push them nowhere. Reparations, bleh, the left will maybe talk about that as a general, but any actual plans existing or coming close to existing, less likely.
Islamic supremacists, to make it short, they have recruiters, their church and place worship is closely aligned to their society, so imams holds great sway; and that is how they tend of get them. If we replicated that with white people and christianity, we'd likely see the same (and have so historically).
Black nationalism, as I mention, loss of prosperity, wealth and standing. As far as I know, black people haven't really lost any of those, they've frankly improved. But it exists, in another form most likely, in ghettos, where if you ain't black, you better have darn good reason to be there etc..

It is all a combination of things, and that is why it is a bit concerning being a conservative, because we sort of don't fix the first two, so we rely on the third. Something that scares me personally, because if we "win", it will mean the slaughter (metaphorically or literal), with no actual results in the end.

[Mormolyce]

When Mark Fisher, the late cultural theorist wrote his infamous 2013 essay, "Exiting the Vampire Castle," he was responding to the trajectory contemporary "leftism" had been uncritically going down for years. Essentially responding to the emergence of a Woke Culture, the culture of Social Justice, particularly in online spaces and the early manifestations of Cancel Culture.

Meaningless buzzwords. The "woke culture" of today is a pale shadow of the Civil Rights Era of our parents' generation. "Cancel culture" is just a dumb internet-ism for being shunned, which is something that has literally always been a part of human culture. If anything, we live in a time which is more tolerant of differing opinions than any other.

Boil all this stuff down and it's just "boo hoo some people criticised me online". If that bothers you, either grow a thicker skin or figure out social media isn't for you and leave it. Jesus Christ, "people are judging me on the internet because of my statements in public forums" has got to be the most First World Problem I've ever heard.

[Mayhem]

I await someone pointing out what is bullshit.

Uh, I think I found someone who did just that, wait a second I'll look for the quote.

Here you go:

I'll never put effort into MMO-OC posts.

[Theodarzna]

I had a feeling this was the case, thanks.

None of that actually reflects my OP.

First, to clear up, I am not saying Fischer said those things in my commentary or that that is a CORRECT reading of his words, but that one can extrapolate the trajectory of the "Vampires Castle".

Second, I am not even saying these people are Leftists, as Endus screams about. I am saying the opposite; that these people are fraudulent or not actually Leftists same as how a Himiko Toga cosplayer isn't actually Himiko Toga.

Finally the problem with Doctor Amadeus and Endus and company is that their race/sex first politics is inherently self destructive to a Leftist cause. Which is why Doctor Amadeus rightly identifies as a Neo-Liberal so not a Leftist and Endus sadly maintains the delusion that his or her Cosplay is authentic. A race-conscious politics, but without whites. A gender-conscious politics, but without men is a contradiction. Race-conscious and sex-conscious identity sorting must have a white male identity. Race-gender-sexuality liberalism is co-constitutive with the alt-right, not by accident but by design. Class + race is just the softer way of racially dividing material interests, so that the black man is there, and the white man is yonder. It’s not coincidence that this is part of how the political parties see themselves: The ideology arises from political constituencies. So actually counter to what a lot of people are saying, I don't blame Leftists for the existence of White Nationalism or the Alt-Right. I blame Liberals, whom are not Leftists.

The problem is a lot of Liberals cosplay as Leftists, but really are not engaged in that mode of thought except in style or aesthetic. So for example there is the belief that "Crime is a result of poverty and deprivation" I.E. a materialist assessment of crime. But then you have "Cops are bigots summoned from the racism dimension" which actually is wholly contradictory to the first statement because it negates that crime is even a problem to be addressed. The "Abolish the Police" is ultimately a very liberal idea that masquerades as a radical position. In the end its just a way for powerful people to neglect any duty towards the impoverished and avoid doing anything since they will obviously remain safe in gated and privately secured communities. In a sense the Wokesters aren't that far from "Privatized Police Force NOW!" thinking, which is Libertarian AnCap erotic fantasy. The first belief logically necessitates an acknowledgement that poor communities are going to produce a lot of crime; which statistically is born out in the sense that Black America is poor and tends to have an incredible level of crime like say homicide. You could argue "We can do both" but you really can't, or I should say, WON'T because you will be forever lost in the impassible swamp of bias training and trying to deconstruct the spectral racism of the evil police.... a never ending battle and inevitable focus of the powerful because it is cheaper to discipline the cops for bigotry than it is to actually redistribute wealth. Hence why BLM enjoys such elite prestige, and why the 1619 projects at NYT's enjoys such happy endorsements for say Shell Oil, while it was the Socialist Internationals Website that pointed out that the 1619 projects authors were full of shit and most of it was Ethnic-narcissism.

Basically, Fischers point is that the Wokesters aren't even Leftists but what they do causes problems. They are Liberals involved in playacting, in cosplaying. But their cosplay and indulgences has had real political consequences.
[Infraction]

[NED funded]

The greatest tragedy of our time. Being cancelled on twitter, I dont really like twitter that much either so you know what I do, I just block people and move on. All of the time and money spent on writing articles about being cancelled on twitter couldve been spent on writing something that actually matters.

Culture war nonsense is all people care tho, too much time spent on a bubble

[Endus]

Finally the problem with Doctor Amadeus and Endus and company is that their race/sex first politics is inherently self destructive to a Leftist cause.

I'll only speak for myself, here. That's not what my politics are based upon, in any remote way whatsoever. Again, you are manufacturing a straw man and pretending that it's me.

It is not.

It's just you being dishonest.

Which is why Doctor Amadeus rightly identifies as a Neo-Liberal so not a Leftist and Endus sadly maintains the delusion that his or her Cosplay is authentic. A race-conscious politics, but without whites. A gender-conscious politics, but without men is a contradiction. Race-conscious and sex-conscious identity sorting must have a white male identity.

I have literally not ever advocated against whites or men in any general sense. The "contradiction" exists only in your head, because you're making shit up that contradicts my views, and pretending that I said it, when I never have.

And that's the root of all this. You've made up a bunch of bullshit in your own head, and you don't care about the facts or truth, and you'll flagrantly lie about what other people believe so you can staple their faces to whatever straw man you've manufactured. You do this so you don't ever have to actually make any effort to understand anyone else's position, or to make any argument that actually challenges their position, because it's so much easier to make up a bunch of self-contradictory bullshit and blame them for making that argument, when they never have.

This is hardly the first time you've done this, and certainly not the first time I've pointed this out to you.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51649888
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49535440
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post48692964

And so on. Not the only entries I could've picked. You have a long history of making up straw men rather than attacking the actual argument. As you are doing, again, here.

[Theodarzna]

I have literally not ever advocated against whites or men in any general sense.

Of course you haven't directly stated as such; but that is the point of say Dog-Whistling. Its plausibly deniable. It is possible you sincerely don't believe that, but then again I'd say the corpus of your posts on the subject don't really lend itself to taking that sincerity seriously.

I mean as far as I know many people who get labeled super fascist ultra-Nazi's have never actually said one race is superior to another. I mean you have claimed I hold such beliefs but you could never actually find me stating as such in direct objective terms, but you would hold try to that claim from inference.

So, if we accept the possibility of dog whistles, then I reverse it back at you.

[Endus]

Of course you haven't directly stated as such; but that is the point of say Dog-Whistling.

No, this is you admitting that you're lying about my position. That you have no basis for it, in any of my 60,000 posts here.

Its plausibly deniable. It is possible you sincerely don't believe that, but then again I'd say the corpus of your posts on the subject don't really lend itself to taking that sincerity seriously.

It's straight-up deniable.

You literally just admitted you have no grounds for the claim. You have no basis or evidence to support it. You just said you made it all up.

This whole screed by you is just an attempt to gaslight. Nothing more.

I mean as far as I know many people who get labeled super fascist ultra-Nazi's have never actually said one race is superior to another. I mean you have claimed I hold such beliefs but you could never actually find me stating as such in direct objective terms, but you would hold try to that claim from inference.

Just ran a search (and I welcome anyone else to try) looking for any posts by myself, with your user name and "Nazi" in the text (including your user name catches any and all direct quotes, not just cases where I actually typed out your name).

9 results. Not one calls you a Nazi.

The same search, replacing "Nazi" with "fascist"? Only one hit, and it's a post I responded to you and another guy, and he was the one who used "fascist", and it wasn't something aimed at you at all.

So I literally have no clue what you're even talking about. I can't find any trace of me doing so. Maybe it's in some phrasing that I'm not searching for, but I'll put that on you to come up with; I looked for the two labels you specifically brought up, and came up dry. I'm not even really saying I couldn't have ever; I'd need to see the context. But without any actual examples, I have to assume you are, like you were earlier, just making it all up.

[Theodarzna]

No, this is you admitting that you're lying about my position. That you have no basis for it, in any of my 60,000 posts here.

It's straight-up deniable.

You literally just admitted you have no grounds for the claim. You have no basis or evidence to support it. You just said you made it all up.

This whole screed by you is just an attempt to gaslight. Nothing more.

Just ran a search (and I welcome anyone else to try) looking for any posts by myself, with your user name and "Nazi" in the text (including your user name catches any and all direct quotes, not just cases where I actually typed out your name).

9 results. Not one calls you a Nazi.

The same search, replacing "Nazi" with "fascist"? Only one hit, and it's a post I responded to you and another guy, and he was the one who used "fascist", and it wasn't something aimed at you at all.

So I literally have no clue what you're even talking about. I can't find any trace of me doing so. Maybe it's in some phrasing that I'm not searching for, but I'll put that on you to come up with; I looked for the two labels you specifically brought up, and came up dry. I'm not even really saying I couldn't have ever; I'd need to see the context. But without any actual examples, I have to assume you are, like you were earlier, just making it all up.

Lol. The search feature here is hardly perfect. I can't find particularly old posts; but to deny that I've specifically been cast as the ultimate Nazi Bitch Queen of MMO-OC is practically gaslighting on your part.

But I'll extend this to everyone. Not a single person who has been accused of being a Nazi, White Nationalist, Alt-Right, Racist or Fascist has probably ever actually stated say the "14 words" or anything like that. I've been called a dedicated Trump Supporter, despite never once stating I voted for Donald Trump.

It might be deniable, but then a lot of people would have to grant me a LOT of deniability on a lot of things. Plus what do you even believe I am accusing you of? I am stating you privilege race and gender above all other things politically and that this is both a Liberal, not Leftist, mindset and serves Liberal interests whilst also being an engine of origination for Alt-Right sentiment because the logic of that thinking and the culture of people who do adhere to a race/gender centric mindset often have a habit of saying saucy things online about "The bad race and gender" which you know, members of that "Bad race and gender" can see and derive conclusions from.

[Sunseeker]

*snip*

Why don't you just stop responding to her?

Go find someone else worthy of your time and help that you think you can change.

[Endus]

Lol. The search feature here is hardly perfect. I can't find particularly old posts; but to deny that I've specifically been cast as the ultimate Nazi Bitch Queen of MMO-OC is practically gaslighting on your part.

Wasn't commenting on what other people might have said. Was explicitly clear I was only speaking for myself, as you chose to name me specifically as someone who had done so.

It might be deniable, but then a lot of people would have to grant me a LOT of deniability on a lot of things. Plus what do you even believe I am accusing you of? I am stating you privilege race and gender above all other things politically and that this is both a Liberal, not Leftist, mindset and serves Liberal interests whilst also being an engine of origination for Alt-Right sentiment because the logic of that thinking and the culture of people who do adhere to a race/gender centric mindset often have a habit of saying saucy things online about "The bad race and gender" which you know, members of that "Bad race and gender" can see and derive conclusions from.

I don't "privilege race and gender above all other things politically". That's a false claim, and something you made up out of nothing. Not the first time you've made up an axiom and claimed, falsely, that it was the basis of my ideological outlook (links presented a couple posts up).

That's what I took issue with; your decision to lie about what I had said, and specifically misrepresent me and my views as if it were somehow an example that supported your case.

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Why don't you just stop responding to her?

Go find someone else worthy of your time and help that you think you can change.

A little bit of "killing time before dinner" and another bit of "don't like it when people lie about me".

Using the "ignore" feature just means I don't see it. My issue isn't that I saw it. It's that they're lying about me, at all.

[Sunseeker]

A little bit of "killing time before dinner" and another bit of "don't like it when people lie about me".

Using the "ignore" feature just means I don't see it. My issue isn't that I saw it. It's that they're lying about me, at all.

Well right, but there wouldn't have been anything to lie about without the first engagement where you tried to discuss honestly.

You know whatever she's saying is BS, just call it BS and move on. Seems to work well for me.

I don't have her on ignore. I just know her posts don't have value. They're not overtly inciting or insulting (a good trap from her sort to be able to report you) nor are they insightful or interesting. It's just the same old dog and pony show. Why buy more tickets?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Class politics are identity politics. Classes are "identities".

Really, all politics is identity politics. Economic, with financial classes. Regional, with regional identities. National, with the same. You literally cannot separate the two terms; "identity politics" is almost like saying "cow beef"; the immediate response should be "what other kind is there?"

"Identity politics" as a term in the modern era emerged because some people took issue with particular groups having their issues and concerns addressed, and wanted those groups to remain marginalized. That's it. That's the whole push against "identity politics" in a nutshell.

Just like with "Virtue signaling", which is another term that has been bastardized by the right wing into some kind of dumb pejorative. Have you ever indicated openly to someone that they are doing something right/moral or wrong/amoral? Then you have been guilty of virtue signaling as well.

The alt-right has taken many terms that are just common terms used to apply to just about everything and turned them into what they believe are clever insults. The very act of putting down identity politics is in and of itself a form of virtue signaling. So I have to wonder if the right wing will begin reprimanding their own? Nah, they're going to keep bastardizing commonly utilized concepts into their shallow insults.

[jonnysensible]

Theo doing an Aimee Terese impression, slightly better than copying PJW's posts. Big yikes from me.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Lol. The search feature here is hardly perfect. I can't find particularly old posts; but to deny that I've specifically been cast as the ultimate Nazi Bitch Queen of MMO-OC is practically gaslighting on your part.

If anyone has called you the nazi bitch queen of MMO-OC, I'd love to see it. Otherwise it just seems you're playing the victim card and pretending everyone is out to get you.

[Theodarzna]

Theo doing an Aimee Terese impression, slightly better than copying PJW's posts. Big yikes from me.

Aimee Terese is a saint for whom was completely vindicated in her assessment of Liz Warren.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone has called you the nazi bitch queen of MMO-OC, I'd love to see it. Otherwise it just seems you're playing the victim card and pretending everyone is out to get you.

It's not really playing the victim when I'm using it to illustrate a point, I.E. that if one can deny someone simply because they literally have never said something specifically affirmative towards something; than anyone who has ever said I support Donald Trump for example is flat wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't "privilege race and gender above all other things politically". That's a false claim, and something you made up out of nothing. Not the first time you've made up an axiom and claimed, falsely, that it was the basis of my ideological outlook (links presented a couple posts up).

That's what I took issue with; your decision to lie about what I had said, and specifically misrepresent me and my views as if it were somehow an example that supported your case.

If you feel that assessment isn't true, than feel free to state what it actually is. Like what is your stance on the Intersectionality game versus Class?