Valeera and the 8.3 Cutscene

[Trassk]

She was Anduins dad's arena buddy, so she's just looking out for Varian's kid now.

Not every character has to be so ignorantly faction bent they are incapable of forming alliances across the lines, something I get the impression some here have never understood

[Maxilian]

I personally think she is more comfortable with the Horde and is only acting as a spy for Anduin because she pledged loyalty to his dad. It's just my opinion but I think she feels more at home in Orgrimmar than in Stormwind where she faces prejudice.

Well... regardless what you think, at least from what we know from the comic, she does not care about the Alliance and the Horde when it comes to faction, she does not feel as part of any of those, she only feel loyalty to her friends, and all her friends are in the Alliance (and its royalty).

[Adoxe]

so why is valeera in horde embassy in 8.3 cutscene? She helping both factions?

Valeera has always been neutral, she's more closely aligned to Alliance because of Wrynns, but still neutral.

[Super Dickmann]

Valeera's Alliance. Just because she dresses in red and happens to be a blood elf doesn't make the personal spy of the human king who only has relationships on one side of the faction divide any less Alliance, no more than Renzik is Horde just because he's a goblin. She can serve as a better mouthpiece of the Wrynns in the Horde because of the outfit and race, but that doesn't make her neutral, only makes her better at being that kind of agent.

[zlygork]

If it were a human messenger/envoy instead of a blood elf, the Horde would have executed them on the spot or thrown into prison or fed to the wolves, so it was pretty smart of Anduin to send his blood elf envoy. Valeera fits in better within Horde territory than Mathias Shaw lol.

But in all seriousness, I think that now with Sylvanas being dethroned from the Horde, Valeera really cares about the Horde's well-being, I think deep inside she loves the Horde and sees them as her family, yet she did not have this opportunity to express this before because she rejected Sylvanas. She seems a lot more comfortable with the Horde now (especially with Thrall, Baine + others etc leading it) than she was prior. In Stormwind she gets treated like crap, in Orgrimmar no one treats her with prejudice, sure, some horde members do frown because she is considered a spy of Anduin but little do people know that her loyalty is to Anduin only not the Alliance, so as long as Anduin is not threatened, I don't see why she can't side with the Horde and aid them? Or does the fact she protects Anduin bother the Horde so much that they are not willing to accept this blood elf? Anduin is not a bad person and doesn't want to bring upon bloodshed and war upon the people of the Horde. I don't see why any Horde member would be against Anduin or wanting him dead...He literally silenced Tyrande when she was begging for retribution against the Horde. It's clear Anduin is not the enemy of the Horde. He never was and never will be. He was enemy of Sylvanas only and even then he still wanted to make peace with the Banshee but failed. I don't see why anyone on the Horde would want Anduin dead, only fanatics or Sylvanas supporters probably. The kid is so pacifist that he wanted to make peace even with Garrosh. Anduin is a man of peace and if you love peace, you wouldn't want him dead.

BfA started with Anduin flooding orgrimmar with so many spies that the horde would know that they were constantly watching, I assume that included humans.

[Steelangel]

Jaina being worse then Sylavans?

Oh my... I don't even... the length people go to make Sylvanas look better is unfathomable by now... I was thinking of writing details why that is ridiculous, but I figured there is no point.
You know very well that Sylavans has slaughtered villages and blighted whole cities way before Teldrassil, not to mention that she enjoyed innocent farmers being tortured to death in her blight experiments. To say that Jaina has done anything even remotely as bad, is simply dishonest. And to say it beforehand, no, the Purge of Dalaran was not on the same level, no matter what fanfiction the Horde has build up about it.

Hey, whatever makes them feel better about working closely with an obviously genocidal maniac since vanilla.

Wearing skulls and black, and torturing prisoners: “Maybe we’re the baddies.”

[Doffen]

Valeera for next speaker of Azeroth. Kinda tired of that dwarf now.

And man, she looks so good.

[Talrath]

She doesnt have friends in the horde which she can basically call family. Anduin is like a nephew of her that wants to do good and there is also broll who is like a father to her. So I really dont know where you get the idea besides the fact that she is a bloodelf hence she should be Horde.

She is neither horde nor alliance, she is loyal to family.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You don’t get more true blue then serving the leader of the alliance as a personal spy she’s alliance all the way until anduin dies which isn’t gonna happen.

[FlubberPuddy]

Not every character has to be so ignorantly faction bent they are incapable of forming alliances across the lines, something I get the impression some here have never understood

Either they never understood it or they intentionally wish the game was as ignorantly faction bent to keep up their mindset of "red is dead!" "[other faction] droolz, [my faction] roolz!"

[Chonar]

Well.
I mean.
She's a blood elf.
Who wears a lot of red.

So...

Yeah. I mean, duh? Not sure where you're going with this. Valeera's never looked alliancey.

[mickybrighteyes]

Jaina being worse then Sylavans?

Note I said before Teldrassil...

You can say "but Gilneas!" and yeah... Garrosh held the Underctiy hostage with his personal guards and commaned GIlneas to be invded and to secure a port with a road of destroyed forsaken paving the way to it. You can also argue that Sylvanas was complicate in the plague/blight production.

Lets recap on Jaina, however...

In on her father's and the Kul Tirans deaths because she wanted to maintain ties with Orgrimmar, the deaths were done with her blessing and help. Fine and dandy, just a minor issue that's only KIND of kinslaying/betrayal. Attempting to wipe out a nation is still on Jaina's resume, the fact that she failed isn't because she chose not to succeed but that she was forcibly stopped by others. Jaina purging her own city before Garrosh or Sylvanas start up their evil tropes, she's like the prequel to both the horde leaders going bad!

Sure, you can call back and be all Sylvanas blighted Gilneas... But fact remains Jaina had more betrayals on people in her own cities... How many cities she gotta run AND kill her subjects in before people take notice? third times the charm? Look out Boralus!

You know very well that Sylavans has slaughtered villages and blighted whole cities way before Teldrassil,

in the Cata campaign it was Garrosh who ordered those cities taken with the highest body count possible for BOTH sides. As for the conflict leading up to Teldrassil... the main mind behind the campaign is resting with honors as the hero who stood against Sylvanas.

not to mention that she enjoyed innocent farmers being tortured to death in her blight experiments.

'enjoyed' taking some liberty with the fact that random apothecaries had their methods?

To say that Jaina has done anything even remotely as bad, is simply dishonest. And to say it beforehand, no, the Purge of Dalaran was not on the same level, no matter what fanfiction the Horde has build up about it.

Well that attempt to WIPE OUT ORGRIMMAR is on the same level. and 2 counts of allowing people under her care in her cities[/i] is pretty damn atrocious.

It is not dishonest to point out that Jaina has done some hella shady shit and only dodged a larger body count because other characters intervened. But good girl Jaina has some legendary grade plot armor to still be a hero in everyone's eyes. Shows up to wipe out the Undercity alone, with no plan, just so happens it's already under attack by Anduin so she can Deus ex Jaina a way to "not defeat"

Again, the comparison to Sylvanas gets blown out of the water by the time BFA rolls around and Teldrassil burned...

[Dziubla]

bla bla bla

I would like to award you a medal of The Most Delusional Sylvanas Fan for that post. And you had some stiff competition, so, that's quite an achievement

Infracted.

[mickybrighteyes]

I would like to award you a medal of The Most Delusional Sylvanas Fan for that post. And you had some stiff competition, so, that's quite an achievement

Infracted.

Would you kindly remove your brain cage from your fecal blaster and realize I'm a Jaina-Hater... it's just that her and Sylvanas had that mirror pairing for a couple years in Wrath and now I see one city mashing maniac get high praise and honors and the other condemned and I have to wonder if people bother paying attention.

Fuck, I guess it's ok to call for murders if you mope around and get sad enough!
[Infraction]

[Raven]

What is kind of funny is that the Horde KNOWS she is anduins personal spy and yet allows her to walk freely in Horde territory. Lol

And what should they do ? try and attack her and get killed.

[Manariel]

Would you kindly remove your brain cage from your fecal blaster and realize I'm a Jaina-Hater... it's just that her and Sylvanas had that mirror pairing for a couple years in Wrath and now I see one city mashing maniac get high praise and honors and the other condemned and I have to wonder if people bother paying attention.

Fuck, I guess it's ok to call for murders if you mope around and get sad enough!

Yeah, Jaina who saw her whole city destroyed and her dream shattered is totally on the same level as Sylvanas, un undead abomination which shouldn't exist in the first place, has ordered horrific actions (be they slaughtering raids or inhumans experimentations) since Vanilla.

Please.

[Kyphael]

Valeera is just what every player character wishes they were; able to play in both factions but subservient to neither.

[mickybrighteyes]

Saying Jaina mirrors Sylvanas just simply shows you have no real grasp on characters or story, so thanks for letting us know

They were selected to fill the same roles for a large chunk of the arthas storyline in Wrath.. kind of makes one wonder why but that might largely be focused on both having some connection to Arthas. to be fair

but one has to sit back and appreciate they DO have some similarities in their story arcs.

Both lost their nations and say them fall (Theramore and Quel'thalas). Both went out against the person responsible and failed to partake in the killing or justice against said villain (arthas and Garrosh). Both at some point found themselves betraying people in their confidence(Daelin and Garithos among others). Both wind up trying to destroy some nation(Orgrimmar and gilneas). Both have to deal with personal betrayals in their own domain (Varimathras/putress and the Sunreavers).

The main differences is that Jaina was stopped when she was going too far in Orgrimmar

Yeah, Jaina who saw her whole city destroyed and her dream shattered is totally on the same level as Sylvanas,

I dunno... both seemed to have watched their nations fall despite their attempts to prevent it. Quel'thalas might still stand, incomplete, but bears the scars of it's past downfall.

un undead abomination which shouldn't exist in the first place,

potato potahto. you can knitpick what you think should or shouldn't exist... in the grand scheme the humans are still the result of the curse of flesh and also something that shouldn't exist. This is a different discussion that I don't like touching because when it comes to determining what should or shouldn't exist I more fall in line with Escanor:

has ordered horrific actions (be they slaughtering raids or inhumans experimentations) since Vanilla.

My argument is that good girl jaina has done the same... slaughtering her own people in her own city, slaughtering ordered by her own command.

I mean, undead apathy or disregard for the living gets some pretty heinous disregard... but let me remind you of your own words "undead abomination which shouldn't exist"... since that's a position much of the humans north of the Thandol Span also share and made good on anyways. But go ahead and try and moral high ground when you already view another party as lesser and undeserving of existence.

[Ardenaso]

If it were a human messenger/envoy instead of a blood elf, the Horde would have executed them on the spot or thrown into prison or fed to the wolves

The Argent Dawn? There were Argent priestesses in every capital including Horde, even in the Undercity and they were all human. And besides, the Horde and the Argent Dawn have mutual respect for each other.

Unless you meant Alliance, specifically. But there's one friend of Vol'jin who could be another messenger candidate

Note I said before Teldrassil...

You can say "but Gilneas!" and yeah... Garrosh held the Underctiy hostage with his personal guards and commaned GIlneas to be invded and to secure a port with a road of destroyed forsaken paving the way to it. You can also argue that Sylvanas was complicate in the plague/blight production.

in the Cata campaign it was Garrosh who ordered those cities taken with the highest body count possible for BOTH sides.

'enjoyed' taking some liberty with the fact that random apothecaries had their methods?

Garrosh also ordered Sylvanas not to harm civilians and look at the chain of command in Emberstone Mine, and there's even this quest where you use one of her Val'kyr to massacre fleeing civilians from Hillsbrad and Southshore

Also, she may have had Warden Stillwater killed, but the fact that he's alive again in Legion and BFA shows that the questline is non-canon. Unless it's an oversight perhaps?

- - - Updated - - -

both seemed to have watched their nations fall despite their attempts to prevent it.

My argument is that good girl jaina has done the same... slaughtering her own people in her own city, slaughtering ordered by her own command

The fall of Quel'thalas is 90% Sylvanas' fault. She had all the opportunities to assassinate Arthas but she refused because she wanted the glory and honor of being the hero who took down Arthas in a glorious battle, and so she sent in her Farstriders to their deaths.

Also, the Blood Elves aren't technically her own people. Also, the ones who did most of the dirty work were the High Elves, their own people; though Jaina can die, for all I care.

[Soon-TM]

Well.
I mean.
She's a blood elf.
Who wears a lot of red.

So...

Yeah. I mean, duh? Not sure where you're going with this. Valeera's never looked alliancey.

Spies seldom look like what they actually are.