There's going to be a serious Black Lotus shortage for AQ40 and Naxx

[Kchir]

You have months to farm for AQ40 and probably close to a year for Naxx. If you've already observed the problem now, start stacking up consumables. If your current rate of using them is too high, stop using them or face a shortage when these raids are released. Nobody is trying to control your player behaviour, they're just pointing out the silliness of complaining about something you can fix yourself.

[Akka]

Just watching the first kill patchwerk (as example, as we only flasked the full raid in vanilla for the first few kills of Cthun and Patchwerk) video (https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...rk_first_kill/) you see the best DD does ~250k damage in ~200 seconds = 1250 dps, which currently is already beat in blues and MC grade loot (https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...=dps&class=DPS).

You realize that these numbers are very artificially and grossly inflated because, precisely, the guys doing them are filled to the hilt with world buffs and every consummable under the sun AND applying HUGE burst over extremely short fights which allows them to be basically under the effects of all their CD all the time ?

Also, Vanilla had a much, much slower power growth than retail. There won't be such a huge increase in damage between MC and AQ40 loot.

[Puri]

You realize that these numbers are very artificially and grossly inflated because, precisely, the guys doing them are filled to the hilt with world buffs and every consummable under the sun AND applying HUGE burst over extremely short fights which allows them to be basically under the effects of all their CD all the time ?

Also, Vanilla had a much, much slower power growth than retail. There won't be such a huge increase in damage between MC and AQ40 loot.

While no doubt the short fights do play a major role in the dps when you take a look at the first 5 in the current list you notice they had close to none of the world buffs or consumables available. No one with ony buff, one with dire maul buff, no flask and not even a damage potion (https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=36, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=21, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=33).

So there is still enough room to grow.

And while it's true that melees don't scale particularily well with coming gear in classic, with spell hit gear available casters are going to surpass the melees in the last tiers so yes we are going to see quite an increase in raid dps. While obviously it's not like 50% per tier you still can assume a 30-40% increase of raid dps from MC gear to Naxx gear.

[Geognosis]

Please can someone acknowledge the elephant in the room? We use flasks to make our epeen's engorge to full on pachyderm size!!!

[Kalmah]

While no doubt the short fights do play a major role in the dps when you take a look at the first 5 in the current list you notice they had close to none of the world buffs or consumables available. No one with ony buff, one with dire maul buff, no flask and not even a damage potion (https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=36, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=21, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=33).

Just because Onyxia buff isn't in the log doesn't mean they don't have it... Same with other buffs.

[Akka]

While no doubt the short fights do play a major role in the dps when you take a look at the first 5 in the current list you notice they had close to none of the world buffs or consumables available. No one with ony buff, one with dire maul buff, no flask and not even a damage potion (https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=36, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=28, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=21, https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=33).

As said above, it's not because it's not the log that it isn't present. The logs have quite a lot of trouble noticing buffs (I know I had an entire MC run where my Ony buff only registered for once fight in the middle).

So there is still enough room to grow.

And while it's true that melees don't scale particularily well with coming gear in classic, with spell hit gear available casters are going to surpass the melees in the last tiers so yes we are going to see quite an increase in raid dps. While obviously it's not like 50% per tier you still can assume a 30-40% increase of raid dps from MC gear to Naxx gear.

Obviously there will be progression, but my point is that the progression will be MUCH tamer than in retail, for several reasons :
- Everything scales slower in any case (abilities in retail use directly the AP/SP for everything while most abilities in Classic have a baseline damage + part of the AP/SP)
- ilvl increase is MUCH lower (IIRC, Naxx is ilvl 96 vs 66 for MC, so a whole 30 ilvl for the entire game, compared to easily 45 ilvl for each tier in retail).
- ilvl, on top of increasing slower, also don't bring as much power per level (linear increase, while retail has logarithmic increase).

[OokOok]

Vanilla Black Lotus supply doesn't meet Classic demand on modern "medium" and "high" pop servers.

Hopefully Blizzard will implement the Pserver fix with 50+ BL spawn locations and decreased respawn times.



--------------------------
Edit:
As of right now (when flasks are not necessary), my guild wants to flask to speed clear Molten Snore in 30ish minutes.

But there's not enough SUPPLY to meet the DEMAND!

We want to flask...we all have the gold to buy a 150-200g flask...but there' snot enough flasks or lotus on the AH to make this possible...even though we all have the gold to buy it...

this is the problem.


(also we want to flask for WSG premades...we got the gold...but there's nothing on the AH).

Get better at farming lotus, there's people on my server with over a 1000 that have been farming it and getting ready for ACTUAL content like BWL and not trying to waste it on speed clearing MC>
So if 3 people in my guild alone can have a combined total of over 800-1000, you and your guild just need to stop being lazy.\

You understand that's why there's a shortage right? BWL is a month away, why would people sell them?

[Shalaator]

Get better at farming lotus, there's people on my server with over a 1000 that have been farming it and getting ready for ACTUAL content like BWL and not trying to waste it on speed clearing MC>
So if 3 people in my guild alone can have a combined total of over 800-1000, you and your guild just need to stop being lazy.\

You understand that's why there's a shortage right? BWL is a month away, why would people sell them?

lol

These same people are going to FORCE YOU to buy their flasks if you want to raid in AQ40/Naxx.

They will set flask prices at 240g+ on their bank alts, and then sell you the flask for 80g-100g as "gift" on their main at start of raid.

This is what did on Nost, Elysium... and now...Classic.

Been there, seen that...twice (nost/ely).

I'd advise that Blizzard take the pserver fix to this problem and do a dynmic BL patch...without saying anything in the patch notes.

[Millyraynge]

As said above, it's not because it's not the log that it isn't present. The logs have quite a lot of trouble noticing buffs (I know I had an entire MC run where my Ony buff only registered for once fight in the middle).

Obviously there will be progression, but my point is that the progression will be MUCH tamer than in retail, for several reasons :
- Everything scales slower in any case (abilities in retail use directly the AP/SP for everything while most abilities in Classic have a baseline damage + part of the AP/SP)
- ilvl increase is MUCH lower (IIRC, Naxx is ilvl 96 vs 66 for MC, so a whole 30 ilvl for the entire game, compared to easily 45 ilvl for each tier in retail).
- ilvl, on top of increasing slower, also don't bring as much power per level (linear increase, while retail has logarithmic increase).

only kel is droping loot above ilvl 90...

[Frolk]

Were we MENT to use flasks on content outside of a few hard bosses and maybe the supply was balanced for that.

[Shalaator]

Were we MENT to use flasks on content outside of a few hard bosses and maybe the supply was balanced for that.

Flasks were intended for PvP, which is why they persist through death (lookup the very rarely used Flask of Petrification).

Only Naxx was balanced with flasks in mind. Lotus spawn points and respawn rate was made with 25% server pop caps.

No one needs flasks for AQ40, but guilds will demend flasks for AQ40, and if you don't buy a flask from them for 80-100g, they will remove you from raid.

Also "MENT" is "meant"

[GreenJesus]

"No changes". Just git guud so you don't need the flask.

[Frolk]

Flasks were intended for PvP, which is why they persist through death (lookup the very rarely used Flask of Petrification).

Only Naxx was balanced with flasks in mind. Lotus spawn points and respawn rate was made with 25% server pop caps.

No one needs flasks for AQ40, but guilds will demend flasks for AQ40, and if you don't buy a flask from them for 80-100g, they will remove you from raid.

Also "MENT" is "meant"

Flasking for pvp is beyond tryharding, and im sure guilds will do fine without everyone flasking, unless its dick measuring week for farm for top logs.
If a guild is going to demand you flask for raid, id hope u clear the raid in 1 night.

For my small type, U give you this.

[Akka]

only kel is droping loot above ilvl 90...

Well, it only furthers even more my point then

[Puri]

Just because Onyxia buff isn't in the log doesn't mean they don't have it... Same with other buffs.

As said above, it's not because it's not the log that it isn't present. The logs have quite a lot of trouble noticing buffs (I know I had an entire MC run where my Ony buff only registered for once fight in the middle).

Maybe, maybe not. It's not like there aren't logs where people are fully buffed (https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uras&source=78).

Obviously there will be progression, but my point is that the progression will be MUCH tamer than in retail, for several reasons :
- Everything scales slower in any case (abilities in retail use directly the AP/SP for everything while most abilities in Classic have a baseline damage + part of the AP/SP)
- ilvl increase is MUCH lower (IIRC, Naxx is ilvl 96 vs 66 for MC, so a whole 30 ilvl for the entire game, compared to easily 45 ilvl for each tier in retail).
- ilvl, on top of increasing slower, also don't bring as much power per level (linear increase, while retail has logarithmic increase).

Yeah, that's pretty much literally what I said and what you quoted.
Just looking at casters, mage bis MC and mage bis naxx you go from ~440 spellpower, 5% additional crit, 2% hit to ~630 spellpower, 18% additional crit and 9% hit. So to quote me again, a 30-40% damage increase from MC to Naxx.

[HordeFanboy]

You dont need flasks to do naxx and aq

[Shalaator]

You dont need flasks to do naxx and aq

No, you don't need them.

But my experience on Nost and Ely (pservers) tells me this (which why the pservers HAD to change BL spawns to dynamic):

The inner circle (upper echelon) of the guild that farmed them for AQ40 and Naxx will REMOVE YOU from the raid if you DONT buy their flask. They will use bank alts (that you cannot link to them) and set the price at 240g+ per flask, and then offer you the flask on the main for 80g+ as a "kind gesture."

If you don't like it, you can leave the guild and they'll happily take someone in shit gear to replace you just for them to buy their flask.

This insane level of coercion and "black lotus mafias" (all of which you can GOOGLE) is what forced Pservers to change Black Lotus spawns in order to retain their clients.

Live Well and Prosper @HordeFanboy !

(btw, they even give you free flasks for the first two weeks! how nice of them!)

- - - Updated - - -

After serious thought I have come up with three solutions to the black lotus problem:

1: Make Black Lotus decay after 7 days, this will prevent people from stockpiling and purposely choking the market by withholding them.

2: Dynamic respawn on Black Lotus based on server population.

3: Create 50 spawn points per zone.


All of the above are required.

[asil]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Listen to this person, it's not everyday a brain walks into a thread.

I couldn't help but laugh, remembering every time I see people pop flasks and pots for a fucking Strat run, and it's the same on retail, flasking for a +8, what the fuck mate. So elite, so pro-gamer, much impress, maxium important.

Idk why you wouldn't flask for like everything on retail. Potions/flasks are super easy to stockpile on retail so there's just no reason not to use them.

[lollerlaban]

No, you don't need them.

But my experience on Nost and Ely (pservers) tells me this (which why the pservers HAD to change BL spawns to dynamic):

The inner circle (upper echelon) of the guild that farmed them for AQ40 and Naxx will REMOVE YOU from the raid if you DONT buy their flask. They will use bank alts (that you cannot link to them) and set the price at 240g+ per flask, and then offer you the flask on the main for 80g+ as a "kind gesture."

If you don't like it, you can leave the guild and they'll happily take someone in shit gear to replace you just for them to buy their flask.

This insane level of coercion and "black lotus mafias" (all of which you can GOOGLE) is what forced Pservers to change Black Lotus spawns in order to retain their clients.

Live Well and Prosper @HordeFanboy !

(btw, they even give you free flasks for the first two weeks! how nice of them!)

- - - Updated - - -

After serious thought I have come up with three solutions to the black lotus problem:

1: Make Black Lotus decay after 7 days, this will prevent people from stockpiling and purposely choking the market by withholding them.

2: Dynamic respawn on Black Lotus based on server population.

3: Create 50 spawn points per zone.


All of the above are required.

#Nochanges btw, this is the shit you wanted

[Sting]

No, you don't need them.

But my experience on Nost and Ely (pservers) tells me this (which why the pservers HAD to change BL spawns to dynamic):

The inner circle (upper echelon) of the guild that farmed them for AQ40 and Naxx will REMOVE YOU from the raid if you DONT buy their flask. They will use bank alts (that you cannot link to them) and set the price at 240g+ per flask, and then offer you the flask on the main for 80g+ as a "kind gesture."

If you don't like it, you can leave the guild and they'll happily take someone in shit gear to replace you just for them to buy their flask.

This insane level of coercion and "black lotus mafias" (all of which you can GOOGLE) is what forced Pservers to change Black Lotus spawns in order to retain their clients.

Live Well and Prosper @HordeFanboy !

(btw, they even give you free flasks for the first two weeks! how nice of them!)

- - - Updated - - -

After serious thought I have come up with three solutions to the black lotus problem:

1: Make Black Lotus decay after 7 days, this will prevent people from stockpiling and purposely choking the market by withholding them.

2: Dynamic respawn on Black Lotus based on server population.

3: Create 50 spawn points per zone.


All of the above are required.

Sounds like a bunch of cunts. Leave for something else if your server is that big.