8.3 quest line just killed alts

[Doffen]

The Mogu'shen vaults one isn't that lengthy. Mind you, I did it last night and didn't even realize it was skippable because I guess you had to talk to someone other than Magni so it can be missed.

But it's definitely not "80%".

The Blackwing Descent scenario still exists, and heading to and from and back to Halls of Origination still exists.

Lastly, you flat out said "If the scenarios weren't skippable...".
And...they're not. Not all of them at least. So it kinda invalidates the point of saying "if they weren't".

But then you take the travel time into the account. It doesn't invalidate what I said at all. If anything that just tells me that you are taking travel time into the account and while I can agree it would be nice to skip that, travelling is not scenarios. So trying to "make a point" and dragging that into the mix is a fallacy.

The longest one is skippable, the first one who takes 30, 35 minutes. The mogu takes 20 mins as well which you can skip. The chamber 3 minutes, BwD takes 10. The last in the Forge takes 5 minutes.

And you talk to Magni to skip. Tells me that you didn't pay attention to where you could skip or not. I mean, you admitted that much.

[Schizoide]

If you think about it, if the patch is gonna last 10 months, using 1-2 hours on an alt for the questline is a good thing. I am doing 1 alt every day now. The questline got good value and replayability because it provide decent gear, lots of AP, new essences and legendary cloak for every character you do it with.

Rewards and replayability are not the same thing. They are completely separate. What I want is for my alts to have access to 8.3 content unlocked without having to do 2 hours of questing 11 additional times. It doesn't matter how long I have to do those 2 hours, if I don't enjoy it.

The whole thing is just annoying to sit through after the first time. You can't skip most of it. Even at the very beginning, when you go to Stormwind on the alliance side, you need to slowly walk with Magni to hand him his hammer. The whole questline is like that, tons of waiting around for stuff you already know about to happen.

[neik]

Not hating on Blizzard or anything, I'm enjoying new patch so far, but when it comes to alts, for now all of my alts are parked for good. I'm kinda redirecting all my focus on one character.

Unless? They make essences account bound and introduce at least some sort of minor artifact knowledge mechanic.

[Jester Joe]

But then you take the travel time into the account. It doesn't invalidate what I said at all. If anything that just tells me that you are taking travel time into the account and while I can agree it would be nice to skip that, travelling is not scenarios. So trying to "make a point" and dragging that into the mix is a fallacy.

The longest one is skippable, the first one who takes 30, 35 minutes. The mogu takes 20 mins as well which you can skip. The chamber 3 minutes, BwD takes 10. The last in the Forge takes 5 minutes.

And you talk to Magni to skip. Tells me that you didn't pay attention to where you could skip or not. I mean, you admitted that much.

Dude I have no idea what you were doing in the Mogu'shen one that it took you 20 minutes to do.

The statues are the most tedious part. Past that, it's more like 10 minutes tops.
And no, talking to Magni inside the instance gives nothing, talking to Magni near Cho gives nothing.

And lo and behold, 5 seconds of googling confirms you have to talk to Ra-den
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._alts/fefxyyx/

So how am I the one not paying attention when you didn't even know how to actually skip it? You're trying to awkwardly measure scenarios by how "long" they are rather than the sheer number of scenarios that exist that are still unskippable, and how the worst part is the travel time anyway.

[Doffen]

Dude I have no idea what you were doing in the Mogu'shen one that it took you 20 minutes to do.

The statues are the most tedious part. Past that, it's more like 10 minutes tops.
And no, talking to Magni inside the instance gives nothing, talking to Magni near Cho gives nothing.

And lo and behold, 5 seconds of googling confirms you have to talk to Ra-den
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._alts/fefxyyx/

So how am I the one not paying attention when you didn't even know how to actually skip it? You're trying to awkwardly measure scenarios by how "long" they are rather than the sheer number of scenarios that exist that are still unskippable, and how the worst part is the travel time anyway.

Did I say that about travel time is the worst? No, you mentioned the travel time back and forth. We were talking about scenarios, not travel time. If I said "you can skip travelling" you might have had a point. But the scenarios without rewards are indeed skipable, so you don't. You cut at least 45 minutes of 1 hour of scenarios. You coming in trying to make a point that it was "merely" 2 scenarios is kinda disingenuous when those two scenarios are the two biggest ones, by far.

You are just someone that think its not needed to do stuff on alts because you want it easy, that's fine. But don't pretend you can't skip the longest parts in the questline on alts. You can indeed skip most of the scenarios, that's the fact.

And fine, both of us didn't know who we talked to then. Ra-den, Magni-den whatever. But I knew you could skip it. So indeed, you are the one that is paying attention the least. If that matters to you.

[Jester Joe]

Did I say that about travel time is the worst? No, you mentioned the travel time back and forth. We were talking about scenarios, not travel time. If I said "you can skip travelling" you might have had a point. But the scenarios without rewards are indeed skipable, so you don't. You cut at least 45 minutes of 1 hour of scenarios. You coming in trying to make a point that it was "merely" 2 scenarios is kinda disingenuous when those two scenarios are the two biggest ones, by far.

This is quite a stretch and I'm honestly a bit baffled you're missing the point here.

YOU came in saying "it's FINE that it takes this long! Besides, you can skip the scenarios, if you couldn't I'd agree it's too long"

Now, if scenarios wasn't skipable, I would agree with you.

So to point out that it's dishonest that you can skip the scenarios as a blanket statement is fair game. Because you can't skip them all, only two of them. And on top of that, you're missing the huge point that it isn't even the scenarios draining time like you're acting, it's the constant traveling around.

Here's a better point for you.
Why should I have to head ALL the way to Halls of Origination just to tell Magni "I've done this before"? Why can't I just do it at the Chamber of the Heart?

Hence, travel time is important.

You are just someone that think its not needed to do stuff on alts because you want it easy, that's fine. But don't pretend you can't skip the longest parts in the questline on alts. You can indeed skip most of the scenarios, that's the fact.

Go find someone else to strawman. Nowhere did I say "I want it easy". And to even bring in difficulty to a mindless "head to point A to go to point B back to point A to go to point C to go back to point A" is just silly.

I'm not "pretending" anything. You can't skip the longest part on questlines, which is doing the assaults and the travel time. The scenarios are NOT the longest part, and if you're talking in numbers, the total number of scenarios are

1) First Halls of Origination (skippable)
2) Engine of Nalak'sha (skippable)
3) Second Halls of Origination (not skippable, but the shortest, still an annoyance though that serves no real purpose)
4) Blackwing Descent (Not skippable, on par in length with the first one)
5) Third Halls of Origination (not skippable, on par in length with the Engine).

So, 2 out of 5 can be skipped.
Less than half.

And fine, both of us didn't know who we talked to then. Ra-den, Magni-den whatever. But I knew you could skip it. So indeed, you are the one that is paying attention the least. If that matters to you.

So what if you knew you could skip it? This isn't some measuring contest of who's paying attention or not. The fact is you claimed "80% of the scenarios are skippable" after trying to say they're all skippable, neither of which is right.

And to add onto why this is so pointless, I also knew you could skip it. The point was I didn't the FIRST time I did it on an alt, because it can be missed. And you know when I started doing it on my alt? At 2:30AM on patch night. So really what is the point of this?

The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.

[DazManianDevil]

Back in my day if you wanted Netherwing drakes on more than one character you unlocked them on more than one character... there weren't none of these newfangled 'catch-up' mechanics or rep tokens! You either had drakes, or you didn't!

I can't wait til Blizzard releases TBC Classic and people re-live the attunement chains. :3
As for this patch, the first day was brutal. Took me many hours, but that's mostly because I watched every cut scene and did every single daily. Now when I go through on alts I skip all cutscenes and the big dungeon scenarios and all dailies except assaults. Does anyone remember Nazjatar/Mecha day one without flying?

[tmamass]

Its tedious, its long, its awfully buggy currently.

Wrong contrary to 8.2 patch 8.3 is great for alt especially with how easy you get the new essences.

[Doffen]

This is quite a stretch and I'm honestly a bit baffled you're missing the point here.

YOU came in saying "it's FINE that it takes this long! Besides, you can skip the scenarios, if you couldn't I'd agree it's too long"

You writing its quite a stretch and me missing the point, then you write the sentence below which was not what I wrote, so I was going to end the discussion because you are not being honest, but then I see you are wrong further down so lets do this.

I didn't say it's fine it is that long, I said it is fine it is this long to the poster I first quoted because of what he wrote. Context. You can stop putting word in my mouth.

So to point out that it's dishonest that you can skip the scenarios as a blanket statement is fair game. Because you can't skip them all, only two of them. And on top of that, you're missing the huge point that it isn't even the scenarios draining time like you're acting, it's the constant traveling around.

The bolded part is why I think you are just trying to get a discussion here. Only, as in, at least 80% of all the scenarios in the questline. So stop going around it, you can skip it. I didn't even say every scenario, just that scenarios are skippable. Which they are. So whos strawmanning?

Here's a better point for you.
Why should I have to head ALL the way to Halls of Origination just to tell Magni "I've done this before"? Why can't I just do it at the Chamber of the Heart?

Hence, travel time is important.

So why do you put that on me about that time travel when its obviously you whos talking about it? You came here, trying to make a point that scenarios are not skipable, which they are, then go further with the time it takes to go back and forth. Then try to say that I was writing that? I was saying that you take travel time into account, when it was scenarios we talked about. So whos strawmanning?

Go find someone else to strawman. Nowhere did I say "I want it easy". And to even bring in difficulty to a mindless "head to point A to go to point B back to point A to go to point C to go back to point A" is just silly.

When I say easy, I mean fast, don't have to do stuff to power your characters. It is clear that you want to skip all of it, so it's not a strawman. Especially when you try to come here saying that scenarios are not skipable when they are.

I'm not "pretending" anything. You can't skip the longest part on questlines, which is doing the assaults and the travel time. The scenarios are NOT the longest part, and if you're talking in numbers, the total number of scenarios are

1) First Halls of Origination (skippable)
2) Engine of Nalak'sha (skippable)
3) Second Halls of Origination (not skippable, but the shortest, still an annoyance though that serves no real purpose)
4) Blackwing Descent (Not skippable, on par in length with the first one)
5) Third Halls of Origination (not skippable, on par in length with the Engine).

So, 2 out of 5 can be skipped.
Less than half.

So you are pretending. 2 of 5 can be skipped, sure, just that those 1 of 5 are longer than all the other 4 combined. Excellent point you got there, really showed me. And we were not talking about the Assault, they are not skipable. We know that, we were not talking about that. But scenarios. So again, whos strawmanning?

So what if you knew you could skip it? This isn't some measuring contest of who's paying attention or not. The fact is you claimed "80% of the scenarios are skippable" after trying to say they're all skippable, neither of which is right.

Seemed to me that it was since you really had to point that out?

And to add onto why this is so pointless, I also knew you could skip it. The point was I didn't the FIRST time I did it on an alt, because it can be missed. And you know when I started doing it on my alt? At 2:30AM on patch night. So really what is the point of this?

You tell me. You are lying, so for me it's to make you stop doing that so people get to know that scenarios are skippable. Which they are.

The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.

This has actually happened before 8.3. It's not something new. That you don't know this isn't surprising anymore. Every time you could skip, you got that text up when you talked to them to proceed. It happened in the BfA intro questlines and in Legion as well.

Gonna stop here and pretend this discussion didn't happen. Always fun when someone try to make a fallacy point then do 3 strawmans to get the point out. It's so rich that you try to put a strawman on me when you did it in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn’t alts die in Legion?

They were on life support in WoD/MoP with the godawful legendary questline but Legion really killed them.

- - - Updated - - -



Your definition of easy versus hard seems to focus on time spent. To me it should be based on difficulty.

Something that takes a long time, but everything isn’t that challenging should be called tedious, not hard.

Easy as in not having to do stuff to power up your character. To skip assault when it gives you gear, essences and rewards. Not talking about if stuff should be account-wide or not, different opinions on that, but that people want to skip content to get power-up for their alts. I disagree with that completely. Doing Horrific Vision on alts for instance, should that be account-wide? Should the legendary cloak be upgraded on alts when you do it on main? Should the essence from the mini vision in the Assault be upgraded for all your alts when you do it on the main?

Should it be so you can skip the assault on alts then get rewarded the AP, gear and essences it gives just because you did it on one char? I don't think that is cool. But to skip story, which I was discussing is something else. Story that gives you no power up is a non-issue. Like introduction scenario to Boralus or Zuldazar for instance. Like listening to Magni for 1 hour when you don't really have to. Which we know by now, is skipable in 8.3 when it's no power for the character attached to it. Which like I said earlier, is the philosophy blizzard has on alts.

[crakerjack]

Why play an alt if you don't want to play the same content on a different character? That's kinda what alts are, a "new game". WoW isn't a game with 36 specs for your character, it's a game where you choose your class.

Are you seriously inferring that the quests part of the questline are meaningful content? Dude, it's literally alternating daily quests except for the few scenarios. The real content is the new PvP season and Ny'alotha. That's why people have alts, because they want to do the raids over and over. There's no sense doing ny'alotha multiple times on the same toon if there's no gear progression. I'll clear Ny'alotha week 1 on my main and then do it again on as many alts as I can. So yes, I'd love nothing more than to skip a questline that isn't meaningful. This isn't some single player RPG where there's meaning to every quest. Look at it this way: The questline is for the cloak is like an optional tutorial in a single player RPG. The first time through you're forced to do it, but everytime you do a NG+ or create a new save slot, it'll give you the option to skip the tutorial. Except in WoW, there's no skip for the tutorial, but you're claiming that tutorial is meaningful content.

[Jester Joe]

You writing its quite a stretch and me missing the point, then you write the sentence below which was not what I wrote, so I was going to end the discussion because you are not being honest, but then I see you are wrong further down so lets do this.

I quoted exactly what you said.

I didn't say it's fine it is that long, I said it is fine it is this long to the poster I first quoted because of what he wrote. Context. You can stop putting word in my mouth.

Because Shadowlands isn't coming for a long time, yes.

And your rebuttal was to claim that it's better that something is tediously long because of that, but at least the scenarios are skippable (when most aren't).

Yes, I did read that. Nowhere did I put words in your mouth. That is why I was sure to quote you so you couldn't try to move the goalpost. It was clear what you said.

And on top of that, you miss that the longer you put off the cape the further behind you end up. Yes, the levels are timegated but you still have to work your way through it to catch up, so any alts you want to keep up to date have to be done this week. Not later. Not "used to cushion the time between 8.3 and Shadowlands".

The bolded part is why I think you are just trying to get a discussion here. Only, as in, at least 80% of all the scenarios in the questline. So stop going around it, you can skip it. I didn't even say every scenario, just that scenarios are skippable. Which they are. So whos strawmanning?

I...what?

That's what forums are for, discussion. Why else would I post if I didn't want to discuss something?

And again you keep falling back to this "80%!" claim, which has been proven faulty either way. Your original post had a blanket statement of "the scenarios are skippable". Not "the worst scenarios are skippable" (which isn't true either).

So why do you put that on me about that time travel when its obviously you whos talking about it? You came here, trying to make a point that scenarios are not skipable, which they are, then go further with the time it takes to go back and forth. Then try to say that I was writing that? I was saying that you take travel time into account, when it was scenarios we talked about. So whos strawmanning?

Because the original person you quoted had an issue with the time it takes even WITH THE SKIPS.
Saying the skips we have aren't enough. So when you come in going "But it's fine, you can skip the scenarios!", people are going to point out the flaw there and that it doesn't solve the issue.

Also, I don't think you know what a strawman is. it's when you misrepresent someone's point to argue that instead.

Like when you tried to claim I'm saying I want a "easy" or "faster" way to do it when I never said either. Meanwhile, I've been quoting you yourself to show you what points I'm debating.

When I say easy, I mean fast, don't have to do stuff to power your characters. It is clear that you want to skip all of it, so it's not a strawman. Especially when you try to come here saying that scenarios are not skipable when they are.

That is literally the definition of a strawman, and you strawman again.
I never said I want to skip all of it.

You understand I could be completely fine with the way it works currently but still point out that your claim was faulty, yes? That's the issue here, you're arguing something I never said, that I want it "easy" or "instant".

So you are pretending. 2 of 5 can be skipped, sure, just that those 1 of 5 are longer than all the other 4 combined. Excellent point you got there, really showed me. And we were not talking about the Assault, they are not skipable. We know that, we were not talking about that. But scenarios. So again, whos strawmanning?

Except it's not. You're flat out wrong if you're going to say the 1st scenario is longer than the other 4 combine. The first one might be slightly longer than the Blackwing Descent scenario, but it's not longer than all the other combine, that's just ridiculous to claim.

And again, since you seem keen to respond with "CONTEXT!", again the other poster even acknowledged you can skip that but still says it takes too long overall. Also it's a bit telling that you completely snipped out my point about how it's a waste to even have to travel to Magni to tell him you already heard this tale...

Seemed to me that it was since you really had to point that out?

What kind of backwards logic is that? I pointed out you're wrong, so that means you're right? That isn't how any of this works.

You tell me. You are lying, so for me it's to make you stop doing that so people get to know that scenarios are skippable. Which they are.

...except my first post said "Only 2 are skippable". That isn't lying. And you can't even point out a single spot of me lying, meanwhile you keep insisting "the scenarios are skippable except it's really only 2 are and not 5 but don't pay attention to that". Your blanket statement of "the scenarios are skippable" could lead to people looking how to try to skip EVERY SINGLE ONE. And on top of that, you were flat out wrong about how to even skip one and I had to correct it so people would know which are skippable and HOW.

This has actually happened before 8.3. It's not something new. That you don't know this isn't surprising anymore. Every time you could skip, you got that text up when you talked to them to proceed. It happened in the BfA intro questlines and in Legion as well.

Gonna stop here and pretend this discussion didn't happen. Always fun when someone try to make a fallacy point then do 3 strawmans to get the point out. It's so rich that you try to put a strawman on me when you did it in the first place.

And this is where it just gets to be overkill on it.

As someone who is an altoholic, to the point that I'm reaching having multiple of specific classes at max level, I can tell you with confidence that any time there was a point you can skip a section, it was either

A) prompted immediately, as in the dialog box would force itself open again
or
B) You had to talk to the person to queue in the first place (This is exactly how the Battle for Lordaeron worked even, the person you queued for the event with also had the skip.

Here's some proof for you-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Riy2gL8xDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0VTIUbLYWk

notice no "instant pop up", but rather the person you queued with had the option.

Worked the same way for Broken Shore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl4vUTCjPnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFrH2zRBHrQ

Another-
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...scenario_skip/

This isn't the case with Magni and that's the exact issue. Nor with Ra-den. it's counter-intuitive to how the entire system has worked up until this point.

You are clearly not reading my posts properly since I flat out say

The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.

And your response is to go "HAH, you could skip stuff by talking to them before, I'M NOT SURPRISED YOU DIDN'T KNOW" despite the fact that I literally JUST used how the system worked to show you the flaw here.

Should it be so you can skip the assault on alts then get rewarded the AP, gear and essences it gives just because you did it on one char? I don't think that is cool. But to skip story, which I was discussing is something else. Story that gives you no power up is a non-issue. Like introduction scenario to Boralus or Zuldazar for instance. Like listening to Magni for 1 hour when you don't really have to. Which we know by now, is skipable in 8.3 when it's no power for the character attached to it. Which like I said earlier, is the philosophy blizzard has on alts.

The account wide increase on the heart ilvl from Exalted Champions of Azeroth would like a word with your claim of "blizzard doesn't let you skip stuff for power increases on alts."

[Schizoide]

The account wide increase on the heart ilvl from Exalted Champions of Azeroth would like a word with your claim of "blizzard doesn't let you skip stuff for power increases on alts."

Yes, of course, and there are various catch-up mechanisms too. In fact they could have used the artifact knowledge catchup to avoid the necklace catchup, but for whatever reason they won't make each necklace rank cost less than 1000AP. Maybe they can't handle an item getting two upgrades at a single shot or something.

[Doffen]

I
The account wide increase on the heart ilvl from Exalted Champions of Azeroth would like a word with your claim of "blizzard doesn't let you skip stuff for power increases on alts."

Another strawman. It's a catch up mechanic for Azerite Power for patches/seasons. Nice try though. We were talking actual skip in quests which are current content while you try to make a point about catch-up mechanics which are here to make so that you don't have to grind AP from 8.0 and up to 8.3. In 8.3 they increased it to 50. In 8.2 it was up to 35. Because they are not letting you get AP to your main's level by default, but to make sure new players and alts isn't more than 1 patch behind and have AK to help them further.

[Jester Joe]

Another strawman. It's a catch up mechanic for Azerite Power for patches/seasons. Nice try though. We were talking actual skip in quests which are current content while you try to make a point about catch-up mechanics which are here to make so that you don't have to grind AP from 8.0 and up to 8.3. In 8.3 they increased it to 50. In 8.2 it was up to 35. Because they are not letting you get AP to your main's level by default, but to make sure new players and alts isn't more than 1 patch behind and have AK to help them further.

...that isn't a strawman. Again, a strawman is, by definition "a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."

YOU said, and I quote-

Should it be so you can skip the assault on alts then get rewarded the AP, gear and essences it gives just because you did it on one char? I don't think that is cool. But to skip story, which I was discussing is something else. Story that gives you no power up is a non-issue. Like introduction scenario to Boralus or Zuldazar for instance. Like listening to Magni for 1 hour when you don't really have to. Which we know by now, is skipable in 8.3 when it's no power for the character attached to it. Which like I said earlier, is the philosophy blizzard has on alts.

YOU YOURSELF said that Blizzard's philsophy on alts is to be able to "skip story, not power".

Yet that's literally in stark contrast to their implementation of allowing you to get a free 45 ilvls on your HoA on alts if your main already did the Champions of Azeroth rep.

And no, it wasn't a catch up mechanic. And yet you're going off on something I'm not even talking about.

I repeat-
"a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".".

You say "they don't allow power skips on alts, only story"
I point out a situation they allowed power skips on alts by allowing a free 45 ilvl increase on your heart of azeroth if you did it on your main.

You start talking about Artifact knowledge and heart of azeroth levels instead. Which had nothing to do with what I said.

[Aeula]

Every scenario can be skipped until you obtain your Legendary cloak. If you don't want to invest a little bit of time into the toon then maybe you shouldn't play it alt or not.

You can't skip Blackwing Descent, any of the assaults or any of the dialogue. You're forced to go through the same boring-ass intro in the same boring ass way for every alt.

[Doffen]

You say "they don't allow power skips on alts, only story"
I point out a situation they allowed power skips on alts by allowing a free 45 ilvl increase on your heart of azeroth if you did it on your main.

You start talking about Artifact knowledge and heart of azeroth levels instead. Which had nothing to do with what I said.

What is it you don't get? You don't seem to understand anything I write. What with current content is it that you don't understand? They made scenarios skippable in this patch. They made the Heart of Azeroth ilvl increase in 8.0 as a catch-up mechanic a good few months into BfA. If they did that at start you might have had something. But that had little to do with what I was talking about. And no, blizzard said that in the recent interview about the power/content thing. Read that and you get what I mean. And stop putting words in my mouth.

"Ion Hazzikostas:
At its core, when it comes to the question of what is account-bound versus what is character-specific, the line that we’ve always drawn is that access to content is something that we had to unlock across an entire account.

"But power, and Essences at the end of the day — when you’re getting them by defeating a raid boss, clearing a Mythic+, buying them off a vendor after earning the currency to obtain them — they’re not that different to trinkets, items, or things like the Legendary ring or cloak we’ve had in the past. They’re core player power."

Scenarios being skippable is one of those things. To get it done quicker on alts, but that you won't get to skip power-ups for alts(Assaults). And in 8.3, access to content is getting characters to assaults, to legendary cloak, to visions.

Like I said, context. If you don't understand it, don't bother reply. And you don't have to write the definition of a strawman, it's just embarrassing at this point. Reply as you want, but I am done wasting more time.

[Jester Joe]

What is it you don't get? You don't seem to understand anything I write. What with current content is it that you don't understand? They made scenarios skippable in this patch. They made the Heart of Azeroth ilvl increase in 8.0 as a catch-up mechanic a good few months into BfA. If they did that at start you might have had something. But that had little to do with what I was talking about. And no, blizzard said that in the recent interview about the power/content thing. Read that and you get what I mean. And stop putting words in my mouth.

"Ion Hazzikostas:
At its core, when it comes to the question of what is account-bound versus what is character-specific, the line that we’ve always drawn is that access to content is something that we had to unlock across an entire account.

"But power, and Essences at the end of the day — when you’re getting them by defeating a raid boss, clearing a Mythic+, buying them off a vendor after earning the currency to obtain them — they’re not that different to trinkets, items, or things like the Legendary ring or cloak we’ve had in the past. They’re core player power."

Scenarios being skippable is one of those things. To get it done quicker on alts, but that you won't get to skip power-ups for alts(Assaults). And in 8.3, access to content is getting characters to assaults, to legendary cloak, to visions.

Like I said, context. If you don't understand it, don't bother reply. And you don't have to write the definition of a strawman, it's just embarrassing at this point. Reply as you want, but I am done wasting more time.

It's better to be done with it honestly, because you were literally presented with a situation where you quoted someone and argued about something they weren't even talking about, and instead of just backing down and going "Oh okay, you were talking about the ilvl, not the artifact level", you dug down on trying to insist it's a "catch up mechanic" when it wasn't, because you still had to accomplish it on one toon.

A catch up mechanic is something like Artifact knowledge where it applies to everyone. It's not a "You did this on one toon, you get it on all now". That's like calling Pathfinder a catch up mechanic.

And again, you're still wrong because you can't skip the scenarios that don't offer any gear (the Halls of Origination ones), they serve just as glorified tutorials which is unneeded.

You can quote Ion all you want, they already showed that with Shadowlands they're toning back on that by allowing you to instantly have access to a Covenant as soon as your alts step into the expansion, which is the complete opposite to what is being claims there, because they're still core player power things.


But the more you have to stoop to mocking and berating it just shows that you're more and more losing the point you're trying to make anyway. The only one here who was misreading is you, as shown by your attempt to talk about artifact knowledge and heart of azeroth levels when I specifically referred to the +45 ilvls you got from the Champions of Azeroth rep.

[Azerate]

Honestly, no it didn't.

I just went through it with my first alt, and you can skip all the scenarios that take ages. It's quite quick.

[Doffen]

In my opinion, none of the stuff you mentioned should exist. It’s just a grind and barrier to entry for the good stuff.

But to take a less extreme position: that content does have some minimal value the first time you do it, so fine, mains grind all day!

But on alts whatever novelty existed the first time through is gone. Perhaps more importantly, the moment you start on an alt, you realize exactly how much shit you are about to wade through because you’ve already done it all. The last time I leveled an alt in Legion, I powered my way to 110, then I sat there, thought about the ap/legendary/class hall grind ahead of me, said, “ fuck that” and never played the char again.

I do understand you and others with that opinion, I have no problem seeing the issues. For 8.3, they seem very slack on the grind, comparably speaking. Though 8.2 was rough for many because of essence system upon a broken system so we had to like reset in a way, midway in an expansion, but still go all out to power up our characters with the new stuff. If we had Essences from day 1 and no Azerite Armor the grind and the tedious farm it is for many players to get power now, aka essences would be better received because it would calm down after a while. The grind in Legion was very frontal, it was there from the start and of course I can see why it could discourage people to play alts. Not to mention stuff like off-specs, which I think should have been done better in Legion.

For me personally though, I think it's fine to have to do some stuff on the alts that is very rewarding, while being very boring to do again. Some is ok, but I also get sick of doing boring stuff a lot. So I do get the other side of it, and when it comes to 8.3 it seems to me that they have done some slack, but I am afraid that could have been too much. Because now I am on my main, finding it hard to do stuff after the daily shit in the "new" zones. Though that will change next reset luckily with the new season

[Mirishka]

I can't wait til Blizzard releases TBC Classic and people re-live the attunement chains. :3
As for this patch, the first day was brutal. Took me many hours, but that's mostly because I watched every cut scene and did every single daily. Now when I go through on alts I skip all cutscenes and the big dungeon scenarios and all dailies except assaults. Does anyone remember Nazjatar/Mecha day one without flying?

Mecha was fun for me on day 1, I got lucky with the jetpack schematic!

Now day 1 Nazjatar, that's a different animal >.<