It's been months, and I still can't bear to play classic

[Bigbamboozal]

Is this just a 'bump my post count' threads? Or 'let's incite another riot' threads?
Or is it a 'this is my personal internet toilet paper for me to poop out a blog' threads?
Is there a point to it other than 'I don't like a thing'?

/super yawn

[Mozu]

Nothing you said so far proves that what I said is subjective.

Your little stoplight false equivalence aside, I don't know how you're this dense. "Bad" and "good" when speaking to rotations are subjective in themselves, proven by the fact that I can say "classic rotations are good" while you can say they're bad.

[Noxina]

And I can't be bothered playing Sims. So I dont.

[Black Goat]

Then please explain why you think classic rotations are better. Do you simply enjoy having less to do? You get excited by the absence of synergy between abilities? Procs stress you out so you want none of them?

For example when I play unholy DK, I can use a buff on my ghoul that gives him the ability to cleave and, along with a talent, a chance to apply a debuff on mobs, Scourge strike allows me to burst that debuff for extra damage, and when I use death and decay and stand in it, my scourge strike becomes AoE which allows to pop several debuffs at the same time that my pet previously applied because of the buff I gave him. This creates a special moment in the rotation with how a bunch of skills interact with each other.

That's depth that doesn't exist in any classic rotation. That's more originality than in any classic rotation. If you don't agree it means you have evidence to prove there's rotations in classic that are better. I'm not talking about what you enjoy, maybe you enjoy bad rotations with nothing going on, that doesn't mean classic rotations are better, and it doesn't mean the quality of rotations are subjective. Your APPRECIATION of the rotation is what is subjective, not the quality of the design itself, but what we enjoy/dislike is just perspective, you have to detach yourself from that bias, understand things for what they really are without your tastes, and make a judgment based on the neutral elements alone.

So basically if you don't agree with the points I brought up it means you have points to prove my points wrong. I'm not saying "you don't like classic rotations", I'm sure you do, and this entire conversation will not change what you enjoy in the game. It's only to make you realize that perspective and reality are 2 disconnected things, what we feel about something is not proof of quality, we can analyze and understand things beyond our preferences (subjectivity) to discover their true state (objectivity). It's perfectly fine to prefer classic rotations, but it's not fine to say they're better than retail rotations, instead of denying facts because they don't align with your preferences you're supposed to acknowledge them and that you like bad things. I like bad things too, everybody does, it's normal, there's also some classic rotations that I enjoy, they're still bad compared to retail, because my opinions and the facts are not the same, that's the situation for you, me, the next guy, your mom, your dog, everyone.

He/she doesn't have to have evidence or points to disagree with you. He/she can simply disagree based on feelings.

I like how you said all of that just to come full circle and say, QUITE SUBJECTIVELY, that Classic rotations are bad. Do you have evidence they are bad? Do you just think because they are simple and less convoluted that they are bad? Do you have points to PROVE they are bad? Look, those questions are rhetorical so don't waste your time answering, but how can you say all of that just to commit the same mistake you're trying to correct?

Just because you have more (or less) buttons and more (or less) synergy does not define something as good or bad. Instead of all that placating and word salad, YOU just need to admit you condescend to Classic fans because YOU think the rotations are bad because they are simple and less complicated. In truth, that is only your subjective opinion and no way, shape, or form an objective statement.

The irony is strong with this one.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Your little stoplight false equivalence aside, I don't know how you're this dense. "Bad" and "good" when speaking to rotations are subjective in themselves, proven by the fact that I can say "classic rotations are good" while you can say they're bad.

That's literally not proof of anything at all. They could be lies or wrong statements. It doesn't mean in any way shape or form that my statements were subjective.

Here's a fun one to prove you wrong even more. Killing people is good. That's it, murder is now subjective everyone, yeehaw! It can't be bad anymore because I'm able to say it's good.

You made the claim that "good" and "bad" are always subjective, I proved you wrong twice. You can apply the same thought process to rotations and realize I was objective all along.

[Mozu]

That's literally not proof of anything at all. They could be lies or wrong statements. It doesn't mean in any way shape or form that my statements were subjective.

Here's a fun one to prove you wrong even more. Killing people is good. That's it, murder is now subjective everyone, yeehaw! It can't be bad anymore because I'm able to say it's good.

You made the claim that "good" and "bad" are always subjective, I proved you wrong twice. You can apply the same thought process to rotations and realize I was objective all along.

We have the death penalty that is "good" murder. So, yeah, still subjective. Lmao.

The military also thinks murder is good.

You have some weird thing where you think good vs bad is required to have global definitions instead of contextual (and ultimately subjective) ones. It's hilarious.

My claims were in relation to opinions on rotations, but it's funny how you just keep burying yourself anyway.

[George Costanza]

Are you competing with theramore on most threads created?

[arkanon]

Your little stoplight false equivalence aside, I don't know how you're this dense. "Bad" and "good" when speaking to rotations are subjective in themselves, proven by the fact that I can say "classic rotations are good" while you can say they're bad.

So you are suggesting that if i say "mass genocide is good" that means mass genocide is subjective?

Can you not see how absolutely pathetic your argument is?

Jump on google and check out some very VERY basic explanations of subjective vs objective. You are extremely confused about what they mean.

For some reason, you seem to think that objectivity means something is true for everyone and cannot be argued. What it actually means, is that a person has reached their conclusion without being influenced by personal feelings or bias.

[Black Goat]

That's literally not proof of anything at all. They could be lies or wrong statements. It doesn't mean in any way shape or form that my statements were subjective.

Here's a fun one to prove you wrong even more. Killing people is good. That's it, murder is now subjective everyone, yeehaw! It can't be bad anymore because I'm able to say it's good.

You made the claim that "good" and "bad" are always subjective, I proved you wrong twice. You can apply the same thought process to rotations and realize I was objective all along.

You have a deeply flawed sense of subjectivity and objectivity.

You made the claim that Classic rotations are bad. That is your opinion, not a fact. You appear to have a modicum of intelligence. How is that lost on you?

Also, did you just compare murder to WoW rotations? What in the actual fuck?

[arkanon]

You have a deeply flawed sense of subjectivity and objectivity.

You made the claim that Classic rotations are bad. That is your opinion, not a fact. You appear to have a modicum of intelligence. How is that lost on you?

Also, did you just compare murder to WoW rotations? What in the actual fuck?

Objectivity is not the same thing as a fact. Before attacking someone, maybe do 15 seconds of research into a subject. You will find how wrong you are almost immediately.

[Cockus Maximus]

Honestly I agree for the most part. Classic was a good test to see where the developers took the wrong route in WoW's development. But the end game shouldn't be rerunning 15 year old content for ages. Instead, they should look at some of the systems they implemented in modern WoW and revert back.

In my opinion, things like graphics, classes, and quests improved exponentially since Classic. On the other hand, certain design choices like xrealm/sharding and LFG before max level have ruined the community and immersion of the game.

[Mozu]

So you are suggesting that if i say "mass genocide is good" that means mass genocide is subjective?

If you asked the various populations that pushed for mass genocide in history, I'm sure they would argue that mass genocide is good, yes.

[CrawlFromThePit]

You have a deeply flawed sense of subjectivity and objectivity.

You made the claim that Classic rotations are bad. That is your opinion, not a fact. You appear to have a modicum of intelligence. How is that lost on you?

Also, did you just compare murder to WoW rotations? What in the actual fuck?

I didn't make any comparison, the fact that you think it was a comparison explains why the rest of your post is also wrong.

[Broken Fox]

I think what he means is that there needs to be a giant time sink before any reward even if it's extremely easy to do, as if rewards were not given for achieving something but rather for wasting time.

Yeah, a lot of MMO players seem to equate a time sink with some kind if accomplishment


"This level grind is boring and takes too long"

"Do you want everything handed to you?? WORK FOR IT!!"

It's like some video game stockholm syndrome or some shit

[CrawlFromThePit]

We have the death penalty that is "good" murder. So, yeah, still subjective. Lmao.

The military also thinks murder is good.

You have some weird thing where you think good vs bad is required to have global definitions instead of contextual (and ultimately subjective) ones. It's hilarious.

My claims were in relation to opinions on rotations, but it's funny how you just keep burying yourself anyway.

Death penalty is not murder by definition. War and murder are 2 completely different things.

I use the words good and bad because you brought that up, I started this topic by saying the rotations in classic are worse than in retail. In this sense, all rotations could be bad but still leaves one better than the other, better does not necessarily mean good.

Your claims were never supported by any explanation or evidence like I did with mine.

[Mozu]

Death penalty is not murder by definition. War and murder are 2 completely different things.

You said "killing people is good" not "murder is good." Death penalty is killing people. So your little jab back is moot.

I use the words good and bad because you brought that up, I started this topic by saying the rotations in classic are worse than in retail. In this sense, all rotations could be bad but still leaves one better than the other, better does not necessarily mean good.

Your claims were never supported by any explanation or evidence like I did with mine.

Your "evidence" is simply you stating they are better. Your opinion is not evidence.

[CrawlFromThePit]

He/she doesn't have to have evidence or points to disagree with you. He/she can simply disagree based on feelings.

That's entirely explained in the post you replied to. Did you read it at all?

The ret of your post got snipped because it was not worth replying to, I explained all of that already in a previous post. This is not a real life conversation, you can go back and see what people wrote so you don't jump in saying wrong stuff.

[Akibaboy]

Most of my b.net friends play it now, and as one of the original players, you'd think I'd be drawn to it for ol'nostalgia's sake or because one of the many problems I'm dissatisfied with in live.

Yet, I can't bear playing it, tried a number of times. It is worse in nearly every way to live. The only thing it has over live is community. Somehow despite the brilliance that was sharding and xrealm (something I use to seriously suggest back in the day ), live has lost togetherness. It's hard to explain.

However, in every departement it is vastly superior to classic. Classes, races, system, art, functionality, the works.. all so much better. Live is far more engaging - the only regret i think is that you can't actually experience the entire expansion systems as you level through them. It would have been nice if Shadowlands gave you the systems that were in place during the expansion you lveelled. But that doesn't make practical sense as it'd be too confusing for players.

I actually feel the opposite about the community. In live I'm playing with a few different groups of level-headed people who balance taking the game seriously while still having fun and having some laughs, connecting with them as a normal human would.

In Classic, my experiences with grouping has been people getting way too mad over things that are fairly straightforward and easy, imposing their gameplay style and bs on others, and on a general note a lot of what they talk about is the latest internet rage circle-jerk topic of the week. It's a drag in light of the fact that I find the overall progression and experience of Classic to be a little more satisfying in the long term, and MORE conducive to playing with others than live is.

[Eninya]

I find Retail to be overwhelming, chocked full of things that don't matter. Gearing is especially repetitive and miserable. I won't deny that grinding for rare drops in Classic sucks, but your efforts can reward you a piece that lasts a seriously long time. It's also more laid back. I love mythic raiding, but with working 45+ hours a week on top of trying to raid 8-16 hours? It's brutal.

[CrawlFromThePit]

You said "killing people is good" not "murder is good." Death penalty is killing people. So your little jab back is moot.

Your "evidence" is simply you stating they are better. Your opinion is not evidence.

No I gave many details that explain why retail rotations are better than classic rotations, stop acting like I said nothing. You just know that if you take that into consideration everything you said gets invalidated and you think you have something to win in this discussion

Then why did you even bring up murder if that wasn't in the discussion? Oh yeah, because all you do is make shit up cuz you have nothing of value to add to this discussion.

BTW what I said still stands, killing or murder doesn't change the meaning of the example at all. This is getting redundant.