Republican Muslim refugee Dalia al-Aqidi announces she’s running against Ilhan Omar

[Wyrt]

they're opposed to the blurring of the distinction between man and woman for the sake of "feelings".

Well, now they just sound sexist.

[Elegiac]

Well, now they just sound sexist.

Binary gender roles are so exhausting, no wonder they're so high strung all the time.

[Malaky]

If you can't not be an asshole then just ignore them. They're a very small minority of people.

Fine, perfect. The problem is that they're not ignoring me.
They want to force me to acknowledge the lie, else I get punished.
Twitter already bans people who refuses to use the pronouns the person has chosen rather than the one befitting their biological sex.
Canada is implementing legislation to punish people with the full force of the law for their beliefs in physical reality rather than the feelings of the person in question.

Again, I wish we could "just ignore them", but they're not letting that happen. It's abide or be punished, lie or suffer the consequences of stating the truth.

Which is the height of hipocrisy given the whole "don't be an asshole" excuse. I can't think of being more of an asshole than threatening to punish you for not comforming to an objective lie.

[Wyrt]

Fine, perfect. The problem is that they're not ignoring me.
They want to force me to acknowledge the lie, else I get punished.
Twitter already bans people who refuses to use the pronouns the person has chosen rather than the one befitting their biological sex.
Canada is implementing legislation to punish people with the full force of the law for their beliefs in physical reality rather than the feelings of the person in question.

Again, I wish we could "just ignore them", but they're not letting that happen. It's abide or be punished, lie or suffer the consequences of stating the truth.

Which is the height of hipocrisy given the whole "don't be an asshole" excuse. I can't think of being more of an asshole than threatening to punish you for not comforming to an objective lie.

Yep, you're whining because you can't be an asshole to people for no reason. Boo hoo.

[Elegiac]

Fine, perfect. The problem is that they're not ignoring me.
They want to force me to acknowledge the lie, else I get punished.
Twitter already bans people who refuses to use the pronouns the person has chosen rather than the one befitting their biological sex.

Because pronouns are not based on biological sex and it's equivalent to calling them the wrong name repeatedly, which is just plain old harassment.

Canada is implementing legislation to punish people with the full force of the law for their beliefs in physical reality rather than the feelings of the person in question.

Oh look, more bullshit brought to you by Jordan Peterson. Pass.

"I can't be cruel to people by continually referring to them by the pronouns I think they should have despite having no way to verify it, woe is me!"

[Malaky]

Yep, you're whining because you can't be an asshole to people for no reason. Boo hoo.

Haha, okay.
I was discussing with the assumption you were asking in good faith. My bad.

[Wyrt]

Haha, okay.
I was discussing with the assumption you were asking in good faith. My bad.

If your boss repeatedly referred to you as Dickface and you didn't want him to and you told him so and he kept on doing it over and over again. That would be workplace harassment.

Literally all the law in NYC is doing is adding gendered pronouns to what is considered harassment. If someone does not want to be called something then they have every right to not be called that.

[Malaky]

Because pronouns are not based on biological sex

Bzzt, bullshit alarm detected.

Pronouns are identifiers, you use them to identify reality through words so the other can understand what you're talking about with precision.
You don't confuse that because of feelings.

and it's equivalent to calling them the wrong name repeatedly, which is just plain old harassment.

It can't be equivalent because names aren't based on reality or biology, it's a choice made by society and the people involved.
You aren't born as "John", someone gives you that brand.
But you are born as either "he" or "she", and that dictates which pronoun is the correct one for you.

- - - Updated - - -

If your boss repeatedly referred to you as Dickface and you didn't want him to and you told him so and he kept on doing it over and over again. That would be workplace harassment.

Correct, since "Dickface" is a name with no real basis in reality.
The same can't be said for pronouns, which are a reflection of reality.

[Wyrt]

It would as "Dickface" is a name with no basis in reality.
The same can't be said for pronouns, which are a reflection of reality.

Repeatedly calling someone something they don't want to be called in the workplace is workplace harassment. That's reality.

[Elegiac]

Bzzt, bullshit alarm detected.

Pronouns are identifiers, you use them to identify reality through words so the other can understand what you're talking about with precision.
You don't confuse that because of feelings.

I'm aware of what pronouns are.

They aren't based on biological sex. Again, exactly no one demands a chromosome panel before addressing someone else - they make an assumption based on appearance.

Are you seriously arguing that because English has elements of grammatical gender it means that pronouns are based entirely on biology?

It can't be equivalent because names aren't based on reality or biology, it's a choice made by society and the people involved.
You aren't born as "John", someone gives you that brand.
But you are born as either "he" or "she", and that dictates which pronoun is the correct one for you.

Unless you speak, say, Farsi and use the same pronoun.

Your anglocentrism is showing.

[Malaky]

Repeatedly calling someone something they don't want to be called in the workplace is workplace harassment. That's reality.

If I wanted to be called "Your King Majesty Malaky" in my workplace, is refusal to do so harassment?
And if not, why?
Following your logic here.

If "feelings of hurt" are the sole deciding factor, why aren't my feelings on this example as valuable as all the others?

[Elegiac]

If I wanted to be called "Your King Majesty Malaky" in my workplace, is refusal to do so harassment?
And if not, why?
Following your logic here.

If "feelings of hurt" are the sole deciding factor, why aren't my feelings on this example as valuable as all the others?

If that's your legal name, sure. Just like I wouldn't take an issue with calling someone Reality Winner.

Because, again, I'm not an asshole.

[Malaky]

They aren't based on biological sex. Again, exactly no one demands a chromosome panel before addressing someone else - they make an assumption based on appearance.

And most of the time that assumption is correct. We as humans have eyes and a working brain to puzzle together all the patterns of difference between males and females of our species, without need for a chromosomical examination.

The point stands: pronouns are tools meant to describe reality, not to soothe the feelings of the person being described.
That's what most right-wingers/conservatives and rational people object to, the abandomnent of truth in favour of a soothing lie.

Unless you speak, say, Farsi and use the same pronoun.
Your anglocentrism is showing.

My bad, I was expecting you to understand we were obviously talking of english here. Really should remind myself of your limits...

[Wyrt]

If I wanted to be called "Your King Majesty Malaky" in my workplace, is refusal to do so harassment?
And if not, why?
Following your logic here.

If "feelings of hurt" are the sole deciding factor, why aren't my feelings on this example as valuable as all the others?

Where the fuck did you pull that out of?

The harassment is CALLING SOMEONE SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT. Not the refusal to call them something.

FFS

[Elegiac]

And most of the time that assumption is correct. We have eyes and a working brain to puzzle together all the patterns of difference between male and female, without need for a chromosomical examination.

Ah yes, right wingers with the claim they can always certainly clock a trans person. What a crock.

It remains an assumption based on visual cues. Gender is performative, QED.

The point stands: pronouns are tools meant to describe reality, not to soothe the feelings of the person being described.
That's what most right-wingers/conservatives and rational people object to, the abandomnent of truth in favour of a soothing lie.

No thanks.

Pronouns are tools designed to facilitate communication, and pointlessly being an asshole because you believe yourself to be in the right pretty much negates that purpose.

Again, there's no "truth" here - there are assumptions which you deem to be the truth because it's the social norm.

My bad, I was expecting you to understand we were obviously talking of english here. Really should remind myself of your limits...

If language is reflective of reality how come every language doesn't have grammatical gender?

Or is English just the obviously superior and rational language.

[Malaky]

Where the fuck did you pull that out of?
The harassment is CALLING SOMEONE SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT. Not the refusal to call them something.
FFS

Okay. So replace that with "zixixxirrir". This is gonna be my proper pronoun now.
Any attempt at calling me "he" while talking together will become harassment, as I don't wanna be called that.

Again, your logic.

[Wyrt]

Okay. So replace that with "zixixxirrir". This is gonna be my proper pronoun now.
Any attempt at calling me "he" will become harassment, as I don't wanna be called that.

Again, your logic.

"They" is a pretty commonly accepted gender-neutral pronoun that you can use without getting your panties in a twist.

Or, you could always just, you know, use their name.

[Elegiac]

"They" is a pretty commonly accepted gender-neutral pronoun that you can use without getting your panties in a twist.

Or, you could always just, you know, use their name.

Yeah but how else would he mock other people's identities because it's just factual and not at all something an asshole does?

[Malaky]

"They" is a pretty commonly accepted gender-neutral pronoun that you can use without getting your panties in a twist.
Or, you could always just, you know, use their name.

No, I don't wanna be called "they", that offends me.
It's either "zixixxirrir" or I'll call harassment.
Only using my name is also a way to deny my existence, you have to use "zixixxirrir".

Your logic. Your move.

[Wyrt]

No, I don't wanna be called "they", that offends me.
It's either "zixixxirrir" or I'll call harassment.

Your logic. Your move.

Just use their name then.