[TV] The Mandalorian (*Spoilers*)

[Svifnymr]

People underwrite Kennedy as a well as give her too much credit. She isn't some kind of creative talent, she runs Lucasfilm on a macro level. With all her faults, Lucasfilm has been nothing but a success since she has been in charge. The success of the Mandalorian only makes her CV look better.

Also Feige is working with Lucasfilm.

I do wonder at what level of fuck-up it'd take for SW/ Lucasfilm to NOT be a success though. People's opinions about the prequels may vary (I hated them all), and the sequels (I was good with 7, but 8 was laughably bad and havent' seen 9 yet), but they still made plenty of money and associated toys still crank in the funds. Like some other "success stories", I wonder how much is due to her, or in spite of her.

I think Mandalorian was better quality than most of the movies made since Return of the Jedi, and I do agree that they need a better overall control of story.

I think Feige has led a great team, but I do think they might be overly reliant on him too. It's like with Berlanti/ DC shows, as things expand you can see the quality got stretched across them all.

[Jotaux]

I do wonder at what level of fuck-up it'd take for SW/ Lucasfilm to NOT be a success though. People's opinions about the prequels may vary (I hated them all), and the sequels (I was good with 7, but 8 was laughably bad and havent' seen 9 yet), but they still made plenty of money and associated toys still crank in the funds. Like some other "success stories", I wonder how much is due to her, or in spite of her.

I think Mandalorian was better quality than most of the movies made since Return of the Jedi, and I do agree that they need a better overall control of story.

I think Feige has led a great team, but I do think they might be overly reliant on him too. It's like with Berlanti/ DC shows, as things expand you can see the quality got stretched across them all.

I would argue that the biggest problem with the new trilogy is that there was no overall plan for them. That is probably a macro decision.

[PACOX]

I would argue that the biggest problem with the new trilogy is that there was no overall plan for them. That is probably a macro decision.

None of the trilogies were particularly planned. The only known was how they'd end, the prequels included.

[Jotaux]

None of the trilogies were particularly planned. The only known was how they'd end, the prequels included.

Thats still more than this trilogy...

[PACOX]

I do wonder at what level of fuck-up it'd take for SW/ Lucasfilm to NOT be a success though. People's opinions about the prequels may vary (I hated them all), and the sequels (I was good with 7, but 8 was laughably bad and havent' seen 9 yet), but they still made plenty of money and associated toys still crank in the funds. Like some other "success stories", I wonder how much is due to her, or in spite of her.

I think Mandalorian was better quality than most of the movies made since Return of the Jedi, and I do agree that they need a better overall control of story.

I think Feige has led a great team, but I do think they might be overly reliant on him too. It's like with Berlanti/ DC shows, as things expand you can see the quality got stretched across them all.

Dave Filoni is their best creative asset for on-screen stuff, he definitely needs someone with some business sense to guide him through.

His work in Clone Wars, great. Rebels, great with rough spots. Resistance, booty, people don't even care to trash it. Mandalorian , masterpiece.

The man is great at Star Wars. I think he would be great at a larger overarching creative role.

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Thats still more than this trilogy...

They knew how the trilogy would end. They had a rough blueprint too - Han centric, Luke centric, Leia centric. Unfortunately Carrie Fisher passed away.

If the 'what ifs' leaks are true (how other directors would have ended the trilogy), Abrams screwed up a lot more than Johnson. They played well off TLJ where Abrams rushed through the first 30 min of TROS trying to undo TLJ.

[Kaleredar]

In A New Hope, Kenobi was able to move things with the force which is how he was able to distract the Stormtroopers with noise. Being able to force choke a guy is also indicative of being able to move physical objects. As long as a new idea is explained or doesn't make the prior events questioned its still consistent. For example the holdo maneuver, it brings up the question of why not do this all the time? It's inconsistent with the rest of the series.

All Obi-wan does is make a noise to distract them. You don't see him physically move anything. And how did Luke know he could use the force to move objects? Obi-Wan never showed him. He never saw Vader force choke anyone. Did Obi-Wan toss in "oh and beeteedubs, you can use the force like an extendo-arm to pick up and move stuff, it's supes cool!" while they had their 10 minutes of training before Obi-Wan goes off and dies?

Or maybe not every single minute detail needs to be explained with reams of dialogue, and we can use our brain cells to come up with logical reasons why and be engaged viewers.

Like with the Holdo maneuver. If you're a small rebellion/resistance where every person and resource is precious, are you going to go around mindlessly ramming ships into other ships? No. And maybe... just maybe... the variables involved, in which we have very few real world parallels, made the situation opportune for it. The ship ramming Snoke's ship was of enough mass compared to its target, at the right distance away to not actually fully enter hyperspace, and the personnel manning snoke's ship were distracted enough not to pay attention to take evasive maneuvers or fire upon the ship. It's entirely possible within the film's universe that, were any of those variables different, it would not have worked. You cannot with any authority say otherwise.

If you want to draw real-world parallels, look at kamikaze bombers. Were they 100% effective? Did Japan handedly win the pacific theater with them? No. Does the US air force solve all its problems by flying drone-piloted 747s laden with C4 into all of their targets? No.

And I mean at the most basic level... what did you THINK would happen if you ran a ship into another ship at hyperspeed? Sunshine and rainbows?

Yeah I don't like that part and the skip jumps from the newest movie. Why didn't the rebels take out every star destroyer with one x-wing. I am going to guess the size of ships colliding is what they will use as an excuse and no one normally sacrifices a capital ship. The skip jump sequence was even worse though. Because hyper jumps shouldn't work like that or be able to be tracked.

Hyperjump shouldn't be able to be tracked according to... what? The "laws" of hyperspeed travel, of which there are none? The characters were surprised they could do it, so it isn't something that could always have been done and just wasn't ever done before for no reason. The reason it had never been done before was because the technology did not exist to do it; obviously, the first order technologically innovated upon tracking and they discovered a way to. What immutable law of hyperspeed travel says it can't be done? No law. Because it's not real.

[Darththeo]

Dave Filoni is their best creative asset for on-screen stuff, he definitely needs someone with some business sense to guide him through.

His work in Clone Wars, great. Rebels, great with rough spots. Resistance, booty, people don't even care to trash it. Mandalorian , masterpiece.

The man is great at Star Wars. I think he would be great at a larger overarching creative role..

Resistance got a lot better as it moved on. It started far kiddier than Clone Wars or Rebels did, but the storyline at the end of Season 1 and into Season 2 is pretty good.

[rhorle]

Hyperjump shouldn't be able to be tracked according to... what? The "laws" of hyperspeed travel, of which there are none? The characters were surprised they could do it, so it isn't something that could always have been done and just wasn't ever done before for no reason. The reason it had never been done before was because the technology did not exist to do it; obviously, the first order technologically innovated upon tracking and they discovered a way to. What immutable law of hyperspeed travel says it can't be done? No law. Because it's not real.

Because of the past lore? Just because it is fiction and stuff is made up as it goes doesn't mean there are no "laws". If they are doing random "skips" directly into random planets and objects there is little to be tracked because you would skip away. Tracking is one thing but the entire premise of skipping is you remain in hyperspace for a random time, leave, then re-enter. You are basically saying that first order hat a universe wide GPS system that updates instantaneously. That is far fetched since if they could track all of that they would be able to find secret rebel bases.

Saying it is not real is a dumb thing to say. Of course it isn't real. That still doesn't mean that Chewbaca can pull a star destroyer out of his behind just because it is a work of fiction. But hey you'd be fine with that because it is all fiction. Anything can happen. Chewie has had that star destroyer hidden up there all these years just waiting for the right time to pull it out.

[Darththeo]

In A New Hope, Kenobi was able to move things with the force which is how he was able to distract the Stormtroopers with noise. Being able to force choke a guy is also indicative of being able to move physical objects. As long as a new idea is explained or doesn't make the prior events questioned its still consistent. For example the holdo maneuver, it brings up the question of why not do this all the time? It's inconsistent with the rest of the series.

Or those two things were both mental manipulation. Making the Stormtroopers hear a noise and making Motti believe he was being choked. Just saying, it wasn't 100% proof there.

As for the Holdo Maneuver, it doesn't make sense lore-wise if you aren't paying attention. First, ships can't just jump to lightspeed, it requires the computer to make the calculation because the computer has built in safety features. Could there be a way to by pass that? Possibly, but we aren't sure. The ship in question was being ignored by the first order because it wasn't the target anymore ... by the time they realized it was a threat, it was too late.

Honestly, lightspeed skipping has more lore issues than the Holdo Maneuver had.

[Jotaux]

As for the Holdo Maneuver, it doesn't make sense lore-wise if you aren't paying attention. First, ships can't just jump to lightspeed, it requires the computer to make the calculation because the computer has built in safety features. Could there be a way to by pass that? Possibly, but we aren't sure. The ship in question was being ignored by the first order because it wasn't the target anymore ... by the time they realized it was a threat, it was too late.

Safety features are easily bypassed when creating a ship for the purpose of lightspeed ramming.

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Like with the Holdo maneuver. If you're a small rebellion/resistance where every person and resource is precious, are you going to go around mindlessly ramming ships into other ships?

If you are outnumbered and you can sacrfice 1 person, or droid and 1 ship to kill thousands to millions (will look up exact figures later) of opponents you do it no questions asked.

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All Obi-wan does is make a noise to distract them. You don't see him physically move anything. And how did Luke know he could use the force to move objects? Obi-Wan never showed him. He never saw Vader force choke anyone. Did Obi-Wan toss in "oh and beeteedubs, you can use the force like an extendo-arm to pick up and move stuff, it's supes cool!" while they had their 10 minutes of training before Obi-Wan goes off and dies?

Obi-wan tells him to use the force when he's reaching for his lightsabor if I recall correctly. Doesn't matter though whether Luke saw it happen or not, we the viewer are aware the force can physically affect objects just from Vader choking a guy.

[rhorle]

Safety features are easily bypassed when creating a ship for the purpose of lightspeed ramming.

That is why I didn't like that part. Not because they did it but because it weaponizes light speed with out explaining why it hasn't been done before. If you are going to risk an entire squadron of pilots and ships to attack a target why not send a hyper drive missile/asteroid/barge/whatever to do the same? I get it wasn't used because it wasn't "created" but it is a plot weapon that could have made a lot of battles easier. Heck the final battle in rise of sky walker could have been quick with a holdo maneuver.

[PACOX]

Safety features are easily bypassed when creating a ship for the purpose of lightspeed ramming.

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If you are outnumbered and you can sacrfice 1 person, or droid and 1 ship to kill thousands to millions (will look up exact figures later) of opponents you do it no questions asked.

Youre ignoring that you'd have to be danger close to a ship and hope it does fire upon while you line up the shot. 1 in 1,000,000 chance something like that ever happens.

The ramming ship also has to have a ridiculous amount of force behind it. Star Destroyers go ploying into asteroids like they are driving through bugs. That means they aren't too concerned about colliding with stuff. Even a ship the size of the Raddus only clipped the wing of its target. It was shrapnel the destroyed the ships behind the Supremacy.

[rhorle]

The ramming ship also has to have a ridiculous amount of force behind it. Star Destroyers go ploying into asteroids like they are driving through bugs. That means they aren't too concerned about colliding with stuff. Even a ship the size of the Raddus only clipped the wing of its target. It was shrapnel the destroyed the ships behind the Supremacy.

But they sort of undid all of that when ships just jumped through a planetary shield to star killer base. Rogue one, and Return of the Jedi both showcased that you couldn't just jump through a shield otherwise the death star shield wouldn't need to be destroyed first. We know that shields don't stop collisions of things other then asteroids because of ships blowing up parts of star destroyers even with shields up. It is all a hodge podge that looks fine at the surface but doesn't hold up when you take a deeper dive.

Doesn't really ruin the movie but still could have been better. I mean it is no different then Cloud city having the Imperials there all set up for a trap when they had no clue where the falcon was going and Slave 1 was "tracking" them. Lightspeed just varies a lot based on what it is being used for in the plot.

[Darththeo]

But they sort of undid all of that when ships just jumped through a planetary shield to star killer base. Rogue one, and Return of the Jedi both showcased that you couldn't just jump through a shield otherwise the death star shield wouldn't need to be destroyed first. We know that shields don't stop collisions of things other then asteroids because of ships blowing up parts of star destroyers even with shields up. It is all a hodge podge that looks fine at the surface but doesn't hold up when you take a deeper dive.

Doesn't really ruin the movie but still could have been better. I mean it is no different then Cloud city having the Imperials there all set up for a trap when they had no clue where the falcon was going and Slave 1 was "tracking" them. Lightspeed just varies a lot based on what it is being used for in the plot.

No, they didn't. The issue was that it was extremely difficult to jump beyond a planetary shield because you are basically in the planet's atmosphere stopping from traveling lightspeed very close to a large gravity well.

[Kaleredar]

Because of the past lore? Just because it is fiction and stuff is made up as it goes doesn't mean there are no "laws". If they are doing random "skips" directly into random planets and objects there is little to be tracked because you would skip away. Tracking is one thing but the entire premise of skipping is you remain in hyperspace for a random time, leave, then re-enter. You are basically saying that first order hat a universe wide GPS system that updates instantaneously. That is far fetched since if they could track all of that they would be able to find secret rebel bases.

Saying it is not real is a dumb thing to say. Of course it isn't real. That still doesn't mean that Chewbaca can pull a star destroyer out of his behind just because it is a work of fiction. But hey you'd be fine with that because it is all fiction. Anything can happen. Chewie has had that star destroyer hidden up there all these years just waiting for the right time to pull it out.

They developed a way to track through hyperspace. You thought these made up laws worked one way, the film told you there are avenues of it you didnt know. You can’t say “it wouldn’t work that way!” if you literally have no clue how it works.

300 years ago if you told people that they could send little messages through the air on electric signals they’d have burned you at the stake. Was it “bad storytelling” for mankind to figure out wireless communication?

Or Did you want a whole bunch of nonsense jargon tossed on for an explanation? “Oh well obviously they utilized the flux capacitations of hyper speed jumps to interpolate the number of parsecs traveled by using unobtanium-coated vibranium cores!”

Is that better? It doesn’t make it make any more sense, nor does that even end up mattering. Their understanding of tracking through hyperspace changed. They technologically advanced their tracking techniques. The characters note it as such.

Who are you to say that, in Star Wars, a series with an emperor able to shoot lightning out of his fingers out of nowhere, where a little kid can accidentally pilot a ship through a war zone and blow up a droid command ship, and where in previous canon Luke falls in love with a ghost inhabiting a space ship, that “well obviously they could NEVER, EVER... EVER... develop a way to track through hyperspace!”

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Safety features are easily bypassed when creating a ship for the purpose of lightspeed ramming.

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If you are outnumbered and you can sacrfice 1 person, or droid and 1 ship to kill thousands to millions (will look up exact figures later) of opponents you do it no questions asked.

How do you know an x-wing has enough mass to hyperspeed jump and damage a star destroyer? You don’t. You can fire a ping pong ball at the speed of sound at a person and it won’t significantly harm them.

Like I said, any of the variables that we saw could be different and have it not work. You know none of the variables at play.

And again like I said, we know what happens when ships crash into each other in Star Wars.

Why didn’t you think one doing it really really really fast would do anything?

Obi-wan tells him to use the force when he's reaching for his lightsabor if I recall correctly. Doesn't matter though whether Luke saw it happen or not, we the viewer are aware the force can physically affect objects just from Vader choking a guy.

Just like how you can infer that you could go really really fast and slam a larger ship into another ship and deal significant damage to it?

[rhorle]

Who are you to say that, in Star Wars, a series with an emperor able to shoot lightning out of his fingers out of nowhere, where a little kid can accidentally pilot a ship through a war zone and blow up a droid command ship, and where in previous canon Luke falls in love with a ghost inhabiting a space ship, that “well obviously they could NEVER, EVER... EVER... develop a way to track through hyperspace!”

For the same reason you are not reading a word I said and ranting and raving based on what you think I said. I never took issue with tracking hyper space jumps. But feel free to rage on about made up things. You seem to be out to argue just for the sake of rambling. Because fictional works often have laws of how things function. Asking for things to remain consistent is not a terrible thing.

It is why Frodo couldn't just throw the ring in his fire pit and be done with the quest. There were laws set up by the Author of the of fiction. Just because something is made up doesn't mean it never follows rules or consistency with past rules. But its okay you believe chewie can pull a star destroyer out of his behind because anything is possible in a work of fiction.

[Darththeo]

For the same reason you are not reading a word I said and ranting and raving based on what you think I said. I never took issue with tracking hyper space jumps. But feel free to rage on about made up things. You seem to be out to argue just for the sake of rambling. Because fictional works often have laws of how things function. Asking for things to remain consistent is not a terrible thing.

It is why Frodo couldn't just throw the ring in his fire pit and be done with the quest. There were laws set up by the Author of the of fiction. Just because something is made up doesn't mean it never follows rules or consistency with past rules. But its okay you believe chewie can pull a star destroyer out of his behind because anything is possible in a work of fiction.

Rogue One released before TLJ. Listen to the Empire's plans ... the Empire was working on Hyperspace tracking.

[rhorle]

No, they didn't. The issue was that it was extremely difficult to jump beyond a planetary shield because you are basically in the planet's atmosphere stopping from traveling lightspeed very close to a large gravity well.

Planetary shields would be worthless if they could be bypassed by hyper drives. Because it wouldn't matter if it is difficult if you strap a bunch of bombs to a ship and have it purposefully crash. These are shields that could stop ships from traveling through them. So a weakness like hyper drive is a pretty big deal. Why spend the time and money to shield an entire planet if all it would take is one hyper drive jump into your capital city to effectively wipe out your planet?

We know it isn't that difficult to jump in the atmosphere if the falcon keeps on doing it. It can even skip when it isn't designed for it.

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Rogue One released before TLJ. Listen to the Empire's plans ... the Empire was working on Hyperspace tracking.

There is nothing wrong with hyperspace tracking. There is something wrong with real time tracking through random hyper drive jumps crammed into a tie fighter. They go from a "new technology" to real time jammed into tie fighters in the matter of months of the NT time line. The release date of rogue one and the last jedi is irrelevant.

[Elim Garak]

I don't think they used tracking to follow Falcon thru skip jumps, they might have used the Falcon's hyperspace tunnel as they were that close. It's nothing new in Sci-Fi genre. I see no reason for it being impossible in Star Wars. I don't care if we have never seen it before. The only issue I have with skip jumps is how fast they traveled across the galaxy.

[rhorle]

I don't think they used tracking to follow Falcon thru skip jumps, they might have used the Falcon's hyperspace tunnel as they were that close. It's nothing new in Sci-Fi genre. I see no reason for it being impossible in Star Wars. I don't care if we have never seen it before. The only issue I have with skip jumps is how fast they traveled across the galaxy.

There are no tunnels. In Star wars it is essentially an alternate dimension. It should be near impossible to follow someone into hyperspace and exit at the same point with out knowing when they are doing it. Even a few seconds would cause you to over shoot the target. And the skip scene not only did this but did this inside atmosphere which is supposed to near impossible to survive. Well up until Disney took over.

There are "space lanes" only in the sense that they are plotted safe routes through known space. So you didn't need constant calculation to travel those routes. Some of the cartoons made canon wolves that used hyperspace to teleport themselves (and objects) around. And that is just what was established before the new trilogy. As Star killer base created "Sub hyperspace" which is essentially the same but "real time" and can be viewed around the galaxy if torn.

It really seems like Disney ran with sub-hyperspace as a concept with out explaining how all these ships with out proper drives were able to use it. Though that may explain the skips. Experimental tinkering to tap into sub-hyperspace. It doesn't explain the tie's tracking it when prior tracking required a large ship with hyper-space super computers.