Why are there no new classes in Shadowlands?!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Actually it does, since every major necromancer ability is already available in the Death Knight class. None of the Tinker's abilities from WC3 or HotS exist within the Engineering profession. It astonishes me that people can't understand the difference

What exactly are you counting for WC3 or hots that isn’t in engineering as engineering has timed bombs chasing lazers mech suits mini bots ect. Or is it just that they aren’t class ability’s?

[Teriz]

ell seems we disagree and wont be able to convice each other. i think its somewhat shortsighted to call it a reskinned warlock with skeletons. I would really welcome a new caster class, since we only had melee ones so far and a necromancer seems like a good fit imo.

Actually it's not. Necromancers use curses (so do Warlocks), Necromancers control evil minions (so do Warlocks), Necromancers utilize various types of shadow magic (so do Warlocks), Necromancers summon cauldrons and Phylacteries (so do Warlocks).

Warlocks are exactly what Necromancers would be in WoW. You'd have a spec that debilitates enemies and manipulates life (Affliction), a spec based around controlling pets (Demonology), and a pure damage spec (Destruction). The thematics simply went to Death Knights instead.

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What exactly are you counting for WC3 or hots that isn’t in engineering as engineering has timed bombs chasing lazers mech suits mini bots ect. Or is it just that they aren’t class ability’s?

Engineering has zero abilities, so all of them. Items with insane cooldowns and mat requirements are not abilities. Further, none of items in engineering are remotely similar to the Tinker's abilities.

[Nero Duskwind]

By that you mean reversing all the bad decisions they have made over the last few years and calling it their grand design.

Better that they course correct now than continue on this "we know what you want better than you do" crazy train they're currently on. Of course, that's assuming they do decide to completely unboard that train.

[Aekero]

Lest's be honest, the game wont be class balanced with or without a new one, and it never has been. Might as well add a new class to improve appeal for the game and for the players who really wanted one but they cba.

Pretty much this, a new class and class balance aren't mutually exclusive, and it's not as though not adding a new class is any guarantee of balance whatsoever.

The point for myself is new gameplay, I actually don't care about balancing every aspect of gameplay between all specs (gasp), that won't happen. I like new content and a new class is just that.

Do people really think the rest of the classes would all be balanced if they hadn't added DH? smh

Tldr: I wanted a new class as well and I'm disappointed they didn't add one.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Engineering has zero abilities, so all of them. Items with insane cooldowns and mat requirements are not abilities. Further, none of items in engineering are remotely similar to the Tinker's abilities.

While ya there not “abilitys” and they don’t function the same as a class but Could you give some examples of tinker abilities then because every one that I can think of is covered by engineering other then Mabye an exosuit.

[Teriz]

While ya there not “abilitys” and they don’t function the same as a class but Could you give some examples of tinker abilities then because every one that I can think of is covered by engineering other then Mabye an exosuit.

From WC3:

Pocket Factory
Creates a factory which automatically constructs Clockwerk Goblins. Clockwerk Goblins explode upon death, causing damage to nearby enemy units.

Cluster Rockets
Bombards an area with rockets, stunning units for 1 second and damaging nearby enemy units.

Engineering Upgrade (Passive)
Improves other Tinker abilities with each level learned:
Cluster Rockets - Larger Area.
Pocket Factory - Builds Clockwerk Goblins more quickly.
Robo-Goblin - Increases armor and Strength; enhances Demolish.

Also gives bonus damage and increases the Tinker's movement speed.

Robo-Goblin (Ultimate)
Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:
-Bonus Strength and armor.
-Use of the Demolish ability, which grants bonus damage against buildings.
-The Tinker becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells.

From HotS

Salvager
Destroyed enemy Structures and your Rock-it! Turrets drop Scrap. Collecting Scrap restores 30 Mana and causes your Abilities to recharge three times as fast over 3 seconds.
Activate Salvager to dismantle a target Rock-it! Turret and turn it into Scrap.

Rock-It! Turret
Creates a turret that deals 62 damage. Lasts for 30 seconds.
Stores up to 2 charges.

Deth Lazor
Charged attack that deals 137 damage to enemies in a line. Damage and range increase the longer the Ability is charged, up to 100% after 3 seconds.
Deth Lazor can be channeled indefinitely.

Xplodium Charge
Places a bomb that deals 233 damage to enemies within target area after 2.5 seconds, stunning them for 1.75 seconds.

Grav-O-Bomb 3000
After a 2 second delay, pull enemies toward the center of an area and deal 251 damage.

Focus Turrets!
Orders any nearby Rock-It! Turrets to focus the target.

Mecha-Lord:
While Robo-Goblin is active, generate a shield that reduces damage by 30% and increases
movement speed by 70% for 3 seconds.

It's Raining Scrap
Active: Activate to create 5 Scrap around Gazlowe over 5 seconds.

[Dakhath]

I would have really thought that the people calling for specific new classes would have eased off a bit after SL was announced. While I personally dislike Tinker, ill give Teriz credit for carrying that torch so hard and so long. You're certainly passionate about it, no one can deny you that.

[Liftinmammals]

It would be cool to have something new. Never really cared for absolute balance myself. Some classes, from a fantasy standpoint, will have strengths others won't have but weaknesses also.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

From WC3:

Most of these are in engineering there functionality isn’t 1 to 1 but if tinker was made into a class that wouldn’t be 1 to 1 either.

We have,
-cluster rockets
-upgrade engineering with things tinkering from wrath-mop.
-Robo goblin with reaves.
-slavaging and scrap have been in since classic.
-turrets we got in legion.
-mech lord with differing shield and move speed items.
-exploding charges we have both on a timer and as mines.

What we don’t have.
-pocket factory, you could say making your own mini bots count but I can’t think of any that spawn multiple so I wouldn’t.
-death laser, while there are lasers and even sharing ones I can’t think of any that gain range.
-grav bomb.

So ya I guess there are a couple not in engineering but for the most part they are even if they Don’t copy things like stuns or adding a stats that aren’t in wow.

[RobertMugabe]

As the title says, why are we not getting a new class. The way expansions worked in the past has been quite consistant.

Vanilla - all original classes and races
BC - New races
Wrath - New class
Cata - New races
MoP - Both new class and race
WoD - nothing due to MoP offering both
Legion - New class
End of Legion, Almost all of BFA - New races.

In keeping with tradition, we should be getting either a new class or both a class and race. I wonder what gives. I did see a youtube video where someone alluded to a new class (necromancer) but I think that is doubtful. Does anyone else think there might or might not be a new race for a specific reason. I personally wanted a new class but I know that an overhaul of the current classes and leveling is more important. Let me know what yall think.

I dunnp what tradition you are talking about. The "list" you posted actually shows that there isn't a pattern/tradition....

[Teriz]

Most of these are in engineering there functionality isn’t 1 to 1 but if tinker was made into a class that wouldn’t be 1 to 1 either.

We have,
-cluster rockets

Link.

-upgrade engineering with things tinkering from wrath-mop.

Which isn't the same thing because its not an upgrade to your general abilities. Mainly because its not based on abilities.

-Robo goblin with reaves.

Which is a nightmare to get, grossly under-powered, and restricted to only one zone in the entire game. It's literally like saying that trinket that raises a skeleton makes you a Death Knight.

-slavaging and scrap have been in since classic.

Link.

-turrets we got in legion.

They're not upgradeable, and you can't focus their fire. I'm also sure that they have limited quantities and insane drawbacks (like all engineering items).

-mech lord with differing shield and move speed items.

Link.

-exploding charges we have both on a timer and as mines.

Link.

What we don’t have.
-pocket factory, you could say making your own mini bots count but I can’t think of any that spawn multiple so I wouldn’t.
-death laser, while there are lasers and even sharing ones I can’t think of any that gain range.
-grav bomb.

So ya I guess there are a couple not in engineering but for the most part they are even if they Don’t copy things like stuns or adding a stats that aren’t in wow.

Yeah it's not a couple, it's everything. Engineering can't stack up to the power of a class in any sense. Which is why you're not seeing anyone in a dungeon or raid using solely engineering for their DPS or class role. That isn't Engineering's purpose. Engineering's purpose is to build toys and trinkets to sell to other players, not to tank dungeons or do competitive DPS to complete content.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Link.



Which isn't the same thing because its not an upgrade to your general abilities. Mainly because its not based on abilities.



Which is a nightmare to get, grossly under-powered, and restricted to only one zone in the entire game. It's literally like saying that trinket that raises a skeleton makes you a Death Knight.



Link.



They're not upgradeable, and you can't focus their fire. I'm also sure that they have limited quantities and insane drawbacks (like all engineering items).



Link.



Link.



Yeah it's not a couple, it's everything. Engineering can't stack up to the power of a class in any sense. Which is why you're not seeing anyone in a dungeon or raid using solely engineering for their DPS or class role. That isn't Engineering's purpose. Engineering's purpose is to build toys and trinkets to sell to other players, not to tank dungeons or do competitive DPS to complete content.

Here are two random ones for rockets and charges there are a bunch of different ones so I guess just grabbed two.

https://classic.wowhead.com/item=106...-sapper-charge

https://www.wowhead.com/item=23836/g...ocket-launcher

For the mech lord stuff I don’t remember the names/icons and don’t feel like digging though items on wow head so you can dismiss that if you want.

For scrap related stuff. https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Mob_engineering Different name but there the same thing.

Other then that ya engineer doesn’t work like a class and ya it has the profession drawbacks but it still has most of the known tinker abilities even if they aren’t as impactful as in a moba or rts.

[huth]

It's not "false equivalence". You just completely missed the point.

Funny you say that when you completely fail to get what i'm saying. You're so locked into your PoV that you didn't even notice i'm not arguing against a potential second necromancer class. I'm just saying that Death Knights most definitely are necromancers, because "necromancer" means nothing more than "somebody who uses necromancy".

So in your argument, it would take the place of "light worshipper", not Priest.

[Protean]

False equivalency.

Necromancer literally means "somebody who practices necromancy". If you practice necromancy, you are a necromancer. If you are a necromancer, you must be doing something that is considered necromancy.

Priest does not mean "light worshipper". Not all Priests worship the Light, not all Light worshippers are priests.

Then a deathknight isn't a necromancer. So there's no problem, no?

[huth]

Then a deathknight isn't a necromancer. So there's no problem, no?

You'd have to show that none of their abilities are necromancy, then.

But there's no problem to begin with. We have two "light worshippers", there's no reason we can't have two necromancers.

[Zyky]

Really? They had more trouble with class balance in vanilla than they do now in my opinion.

The difference is Vanilla was a team of under 20 people. Balance is more of a mess now when you have significantly more developers, QA, and a ptr that players use to give feedback on how bad things feel. Blizzard just doesn't listen because they think they know better(clearly they don't).

[keyboardshinobi]

A class about death has no thematic link with an expansion about death.....

Hilarious.

A necromancers abilities are controlling death in a living plain, how would they control it in its own realm? No it wouldnt make since, in that aspect the Class would be God level.

[Ielenia]

Funny you say that when you completely fail to get what i'm saying. You're so locked into your PoV that you didn't even notice i'm not arguing against a potential second necromancer class. I'm just saying that Death Knights most definitely are necromancers, because "necromancer" means nothing more than "somebody who uses necromancy".

So in your argument, it would take the place of "light worshipper", not Priest.

Deathknights are just one type of necromancer, just like priests are one type of Light worshiper.

A death knight in no way precludes the existence of a necromancer class. Both can co-exist and be different and separate from each other despite both dealing with necromancy.

[Teriz]

Here are two random ones for rockets and charges there are a bunch of different ones so I guess just grabbed two.

https://classic.wowhead.com/item=106...-sapper-charge

https://www.wowhead.com/item=23836/g...ocket-launcher

Let's look at this from a factual basis;

Sapper isn't ranged. It damages you as well as the targets around you, and it has a 5 minute cooldown.
Rocket Launcher is a Trinket with a 2 minute CD and requires a large amount of mats to craft. It also has the ridiculous side effect of knocking you down, negating the stun it causes.

Here is both Xplodium Charge and Cluster Rockets in their WoW form showing that there's no need to substitute Engineering abilities for WC3 and HotS abilities because they're already in the game;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=136284/cluster-rocket
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=261739/xplodium-charge

Hopefully you see the difference.

For scrap related stuff. https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Mob_engineering Different name but there the same thing.

Digging for rocks and screws to make toys is quite a bit different than picking up scraps that reduce ability cooldowns and restores your resources.

Other then that ya engineer doesn’t work like a class and ya it has the profession drawbacks but it still has most of the known tinker abilities even if they aren’t as impactful as in a moba or rts.

No, the most known Tinker abilities are on Tinker NPCs, and they're the actual abilities, not far-fetched substitutions from a profession.

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A necromancers abilities are controlling death in a living plain, how would they control it in its own realm? No it wouldnt make since, in that aspect the Class would be God level.

You mean the way Death Knights control death on the living plane, and how they will control death in the Shadowlands as well?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Let's look at this from a factual basis;

Sapper isn't ranged. It damages you as well as the targets around you, and it has a 5 minute cooldown.
Rocket Launcher is a Trinket with a 2 minute CD and requires a large amount of mats to craft. It also has the ridiculous side effect of knocking you down, negating the stun it causes.

Here is both Xplodium Charge and Cluster Rockets in their WoW form showing that there's no need to substitute Engineering abilities for WC3 and HotS abilities because they're already in the game;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=136284/cluster-rocket
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=261739/xplodium-charge

Hopefully you see the difference.




Digging for rocks and screws to make toys is quite a bit different than picking up scraps that reduce ability cooldowns and restores your resources.



No, the most known Tinker abilities are on Tinker NPCs, and they're the actual abilities, not far-fetched substitutions from a profession.

Theses aren’t the only rockets and charges in the game and not all of them do self damage or knock you back like say the mop cluster rockets. Them having a different cool down also doesn’t magically make them different, to circle around to necromancers which I’m not in favor of it would be like saying summoning a skeleton every min instead of the dk 30 sec makes it a totally different ability.

As far as scrap goes taking parts from machines you destroy to make more of your own in the exact same thing. If they added tinkers but scrap did something other then lower cool downs would they suddenly not be tinkers?