Why are more and more former exclusives not exclusive anymore?

[Faroth]

Exclusives and pre-ordering should die in a fire. This kind of market manipulation is distasteful.

I'll disagree on pre-ordering to some extent, but I think pre-orders need to be revamped for specific things.

Mainly... Collector's Editions and Special Editions (like when they did the Kingdom Hearts PS4 console). They need to take pre-orders on those with a clear window of "Pre-Orders between Jan 1 and Feb 29" which are then closed off. All retailers would then submit their pre-order qtys to Sony/Microsoft/Publisher who would then use that for their production run. They can round up when necessary so there's a small allotment (plus cancellations) of products available at release without pre-order.

The current "up for pre-order for 4 hours at 3AM and then it's sold out, go get scalped on eBay" method sucks.

I don't mind pre-ordering, though. I don't get why people still hate it. You put nothing down. You get it at release. If reviews are bad, you either don't pick it up or you return it unopened for a full refund.

[MatadorMedia]

Well, obviously, it all comes down to money. A hot game will get a big payday on the initial release, plus the added bonus of being paid for keeping it exclusive. Then, after the exclusivity runs its course, they get another payday when they release on other consoles. And if it's a really good game, they might even get the same customers to buy a second copy (cough, Skyrim, cough).

[Schattenlied]

How exactly are games that sell over 15 million copies, a "small minority"? Especially considering the adoption rate of the Switch isn't as high as other consoles or the PC.

Consider how many more copies would have sold if it were available on 4 platforms instead of only the one that you admittedly state has a very low adoption rate. 25% or less of the potential audience is a very small minority.

[Tech614]

Consider how many more copies would have sold if it were available on 4 platforms instead of only the one that you admittedly state has a very low adoption rate. 25% or less of the potential audience is a very small minority.

Funny, most multi platform games don't come anywhere close to those sales. But people want Nintendo games and want to play Nintendo games so they buy Nintendo hardware to play them once again proving exclusives work.

But lets again pretend like you, some random poster on a WoW fan forums knows more about Nintendo's own business then they do. It's hysterical honestly.

[beanman12345]

All about the money. Just looked on amazon it's selling for 14 bucks. Can probably find it much cheaper if i actually went searching. Put it on Steam or EGS and bam it's 60 bucks again. Sure it won't stay at 60 for that long, and will go on sale often, but even still, it'll make a lot of money for Sony.

[nekobaka]

Funny, most multi platform games don't come anywhere close to those sales. But people want Nintendo games and want to play Nintendo games so they buy Nintendo hardware to play them once again proving exclusives work.

But lets again pretend like you, some random poster on a WoW fan forums knows more about Nintendo's own business then they do. It's hysterical honestly.

Nintendo hardware is also still the odd ball out in terms of hardware comparability. It is a far bigger risk calculation for them to dedicate resources for developing and supporting on different platforms than it is for PS, MS, and Windows devs.

For the later at this point it really comes down to funding which even happens in the PC world. Thankfully we are largely past the days of multi-platform released games with one or more platform having poorly optimized buggy customer experience.

[Schattenlied]

Funny, most multi platform games don't come anywhere close to those sales.

Most exclusives don't either so this is irrelevant.

But people want Nintendo games and want to play Nintendo games so they buy Nintendo hardware to play them once again proving exclusives work.

And how many people want them but refuse to drop $300 just to play a single Zelda game?

A shitload.

[Tech614]

Most exclusives don't either so this is irrelevant.

Spider-Man, Horizon, TLOU, Uncharted 4, God of War, most Gran Turismo and Halo games all well over 10 million copies sold and sold more then most multiplatform games.

But keep on digging that hole where you just prove you don't understand the business model or why it exists.

Universally praised games sell regardless of if they're exclusive or not. Being MP day and date does not bring them more value then being an exclusive and selling said hardware which makes players more likely to spend more money on said hardware in the form of games, subscriptions and accessories.

Who knew we had all these experts on mmo-champion with MBAs to tell Sony and Nintendo they're doing it wrong and don't know how to make money. Again, hysterical. I understand this forum is basically the "pc mustard race" meme personified but at least pretend to live in reality and not expect what isn't going to happen.

[luciano]

With the recent rumour of Horizon Zero Dawn coming to PC that got me thinking, why are less games staying exclusive?

Now, I'm not one of those console warfanboys, even if I do enjoy exclusives, but I don't understand how giving up releases is a good business tactic.

Console manufacturers want you to buy their console, so they want to have experiences you can only experience on THEIR platform. "You want to play the newest Zelda? Great, but you will have to buy it on our console, else no luck!".

While I'm not adamant about exclusives, I still like them. I like to know that "that" console has X set of games, while another has another set. It makes it feel less generic. If not for exclusives, why would I buy one of the consoles? Then they are just standard media machines with no unique features.

Because "exclusivity" is an outdated concept that should have died with Ronald Reagan.

[Coldkil]

It depends, if a game has online multiplayer and that dies before the game comes to your system and not enough people buy it it can be a problem.

Otherwise, yea, it's silly to say a game is "no longer relevant", like... i load up old ass game also the time, still relevant to me.

Yeah i wasn't talking about online. And even that is a scam to me - if a game is good even online/multiplayer, why companies don't just improve it on long term and instead sell the same thing year over year and make people jump onto the "new" one? Well we all know the answer

Playing GW2 right now, the only issue i had was horrible frame rates because it's a DX9 game and modern/powerful hardware cannot do much about it - installed a dx9 to 12 proxy and situation is way way better now. So, i think the issues come due to tech advancing more than to a game being not enjoyable for the sole reason it's old. CAn agree that stuff like fluidity, loading screens, etc ahve improved a lot during the years, but gameplay is something that's less tied to aging if done well.

[Vash The Stampede]

I don't mind pre-ordering, though. I don't get why people still hate it. You put nothing down. You get it at release. If reviews are bad, you either don't pick it up or you return it unopened for a full refund.

It serves no purpose other than to condition players to buy the game on day 1. This day 1 purchase can bypass reviewers as well as get the most value the game is worth. Games lose value as time goes by so this avoids that problem. You shouldn't pre-order any game in 2020, since the chance of you not finding a copy of the game is unlikely.

Spider-Man, Horizon, TLOU, Uncharted 4, God of War, most Gran Turismo and Halo games all well over 10 million copies sold and sold more then most multiplatform games.

Most multiplatform games are generally not as good either. You can see a theme with the games you listed. Most of the games are single player focused, and most have no micro-transactions or loot-boxes. But there are some 3rd party games that blow any of the games you listed out of the water. Minecraft, GTAV, PUBG, Skyrim, even Red Dead Redemption 2 is up there. The games you listed are pretty awesome but they don't show up on this list. Nintendo on the other hand is all over the place, but nothing recent. Other than Breath of the Wild, Nintendo hasn't really made a best selling game for a while. The Wii was just an awesome platform for best selling games for Nintendo. Otherwise multi-platforms rule the roost.

But keep on digging that hole where you just prove you don't understand the business model or why it exists.

And you do? All the Halo games and Horizon Zero Dawn are now on PC, as well as other once Xbox exclusives like CupHead and Ori. CupHead and Ori are even on the Switch now. If you know something the industry doesn't then let me know because it seems these exclusives are becoming less exclusive. As time goes on you'll see this happening more and more.

Universally praised games sell regardless of if they're exclusive or not.

No they don't because of a dreaded thing called "MATH!" As great as a game can be, if you only have 1/3rd of the market presence then at best you can expect 1/3rd the potential in sales. GTAV is a prime example of what happens when you're free to push your game to any platform you choose to. Imagine the sales of Breath of the Wild if Nintendo could port it to PC, PS4, and Xbox One?

Being MP day and date does not bring them more value then being an exclusive and selling said hardware which makes players more likely to spend more money on said hardware in the form of games, subscriptions and accessories.

Maybe but most exclusive games are single player, which means the benefits of subscriptions are negated. I also expect profits from hardware to be low since traditionally new console releases sell at loss or no profit, since the idea is to make money from game sales.

Who knew we had all these experts on mmo-champion with MBAs to tell Sony and Nintendo they're doing it wrong and don't know how to make money. Again, hysterical. I understand this forum is basically the "pc mustard race" meme personified but at least pretend to live in reality and not expect what isn't going to happen.

You don't need to be an expert to be a good consumer.

[RobertoCarlos]

No they don't because of a dreaded thing called "MATH!" As great as a game can be, if you only have 1/3rd of the market presence then at best you can expect 1/3rd the potential in sales. GTAV is a prime example of what happens when you're free to push your game to any platform you choose to. Imagine the sales of Breath of the Wild if Nintendo could port it to PC, PS4, and Xbox One?

Holy assumptions batman! That is such a simple and incorrect way to look at business. There's this little thing called target markets after a little something called market research. This may come as a shocker but not everyone is gonna buy the same game even if its universally praised as the best. Much like you saying which is a bigger market 1/3 or 3/3 right. Wrong you can't just say breath of the wild would have sold way more on ps4 and PC. Would it have sold more copies? Probably. Would that have been more money than the switch units sold so they can play the game? I doubt it.

Business isn't just a case of having more people to sell too instantly means success. Look at ferrari they do pretty damn well with the exclusive nature. Why don't they just copy Toyota right

[Volatilis]

Holy assumptions batman! That is such a simple and incorrect way to look at business. There's this little thing called target markets after a little something called market research. This may come as a shocker but not everyone is gonna buy the same game even if its universally praised as the best. Much like you saying which is a bigger market 1/3 or 3/3 right. Wrong you can't just say breath of the wild would have sold way more on ps4 and PC. Would it have sold more copies? Probably. Would that have been more money than the switch units sold so they can play the game? I doubt it.

Business isn't just a case of having more people to sell too instantly means success. Look at ferrari they do pretty damn well with the exclusive nature. Why don't they just copy Toyota right

Its like telling my daughter that we have 30 people on the street, so if she sells her lemonade at $2 each, thats $60! Because you know, everyone will defiantly buy one if its available, theres no way any of those neighbors dont like lemonade. So its safe to assume!

[Faroth]

It serves no purpose other than to condition players to buy the game on day 1. This day 1 purchase can bypass reviewers as well as get the most value the game is worth. Games lose value as time goes by so this avoids that problem. You shouldn't pre-order any game in 2020, since the chance of you not finding a copy of the game is unlikely.

That still holds no reason beyond "I don't want you to."

Reviewers aren't exactly 100% reliable. Especially these days.

If someone wants to wait for sales, they're fully free to do so, but a pre-order, a day 1 purchase, a week 1 purchase, or even a month 1 purchase aren't all that different.

If you want to wait 6 months (less if it's a holiday release), you know you're going to wait. If you know it's a game from a series and a publisher you've enjoyed and trust, pre-ordering does literally nothing different than buying it on day 1/day 15/day 30.

"You shouldn't pre-order any game in 2020" just comes across as people feeling they should dictate how others buy games. It's ridiculous.

And you didn't address anything I noted.

I pre-ordered a handful of games last year because 20% off with GCU (plus I get $10 back in rewards certs). So I'm looking at essentially a new release at $48 + $10 gift card back. If they come out this year and they're looking bad, I can just not pick them up and I lose nothing. I could even pick them up, read reviews, then return them before opening for a full refund. I have 15 days to make that decision if I want to open it or not. Even going forward $10 back in a reward cert is worth it for a game I'm already determined to play at launch (and again, if it releases and doesn't look like it turned out good, I can return it and lose nothing).

If you live and die by others reviewing a game, you still have absolutely no risk of losing a dime when you pre-order. You simply don't open the game, or don't even pick it up.

Unless people honestly believe that it somehow brainwashes you into buying everything on day one. (It doesn't).

When places required a $5 down charge (GameStop still does in store for some reason, I think), I understood not doing it. With the current models and the benefits available? It's honestly not some travesty in gaming.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't need to be an expert to be a good consumer.

Being a good consumer has absolutely nothing to do with being a smart marketer.

[Schattenlied]

Spider-Man, Horizon, TLOU, Uncharted 4, God of War, most Gran Turismo and Halo games all well over 10 million copies sold and sold more then most multiplatform games.

But keep on digging that hole where you just prove you don't understand the business model or why it exists.

Universally praised games sell regardless of if they're exclusive or not. Being MP day and date does not bring them more value then being an exclusive and selling said hardware which makes players more likely to spend more money on said hardware in the form of games, subscriptions and accessories.

Who knew we had all these experts on mmo-champion with MBAs to tell Sony and Nintendo they're doing it wrong and don't know how to make money. Again, hysterical. I understand this forum is basically the "pc mustard race" meme personified but at least pretend to live in reality and not expect what isn't going to happen.

I was gonna type up a response to this, but Vash already wrecked your shit for me, so I'll leave it at that.

[Rennadrel]

Consider how many more copies would have sold if it were available on 4 platforms instead of only the one that you admittedly state has a very low adoption rate. 25% or less of the potential audience is a very small minority.

Not really. You can't really guarantee that a game is going to sell more on multiple platforms versus one. Sure, there's more market exposure, then there's also way more competition from other games. And there's no justification for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to continue to produce consoles without their own exclusives. There has to be a driving factor, otherwise they just become developers making PC games, because ultimately that is the platform with the largest user base world wide due to the sheer number of people who actually have a computer.

[Vash The Stampede]

Holy assumptions batman! That is such a simple and incorrect way to look at business. There's this little thing called target markets after a little something called market research. This may come as a shocker but not everyone is gonna buy the same game even if its universally praised as the best. Much like you saying which is a bigger market 1/3 or 3/3 right. Wrong you can't just say breath of the wild would have sold way more on ps4 and PC. Would it have sold more copies? Probably. Would that have been more money than the switch units sold so they can play the game? I doubt it.

If Breath of the Wild was carrying the Switch unit sales then yes, but obviously there's other games. Nintendo has more games than Zelda and Mario, and that could make it worth their efforts to port all of them to PC and PS4. The money Nintendo makes isn't really from Switch units sold but 3rd party games sold on the Switch. Also, the Switch has been emulated to death on PC and therefore not porting your games to PC is an exercise in stupidity.

Business isn't just a case of having more people to sell too instantly means success. Look at ferrari they do pretty damn well with the exclusive nature. Why don't they just copy Toyota right

Toyota's success is their reliability and Ferrari isn't known for making reliable cars. Also the success of Ferrari and many other super car companies is from a growing wealthy population. So long as trickle down economics doesn't work, they have customers who'll buy these cars.

"You shouldn't pre-order any game in 2020" just comes across as people feeling they should dictate how others buy games. It's ridiculous.

I'm not dictating, I'm giving sound advice. Up to you to take my advice but if you value your money and the gaming industry then you shouldn't pre-order. You're incentivizing bad behavior.

I pre-ordered a handful of games last year because 20% off with GCU (plus I get $10 back in rewards certs). So I'm looking at essentially a new release at $48 + $10 gift card back. If they come out this year and they're looking bad, I can just not pick them up and I lose nothing. I could even pick them up, read reviews, then return them before opening for a full refund. I have 15 days to make that decision if I want to open it or not. Even going forward $10 back in a reward cert is worth it for a game I'm already determined to play at launch (and again, if it releases and doesn't look like it turned out good, I can return it and lose nothing).

So you save money by pre-ordering, but you could also save money by waiting. Let the bugs get fixed, let the good reviewers get their hands on the game. If you're looking for an honest review of a game within the first week of release then you won't find it. You need to give the proper reviewers some time to fully experience the game before determining if the game is worth your time or not. Also please tell me you're not using the Best Buy Gamers Club Unlocked A.K.A. GCU? That program ended in 2018 and cost $30 a year, before it was originally $100 a year. You must have not pre-ordered a game in a while I see? Unless GCU means something else, because I'm really bad with acronyms.

If you live and die by others reviewing a game, you still have absolutely no risk of losing a dime when you pre-order. You simply don't open the game, or don't even pick it up.

I don't think you understand, I pirate my games before I buy. Only way to ensure I don't waste my money on crap. Reviewers are spotty and even the ones I trust I take them with a grain of salt. Don't know why people like Persona 5 so much, I felt it was an awful game. Dunkey even said it was a great game and I put a lot of faith in his opinions.

Unless people honestly believe that it somehow brainwashes you into buying everything on day one. (It doesn't).

Then why do they do it? There has to be a beneficial reason for them to want pre-orders, and I can think of several. Not all benefiting consumers I can assure you.

When places required a $5 down charge (GameStop still does in store for some reason, I think), I understood not doing it. With the current models and the benefits available? It's honestly not some travesty in gaming.

GameStop won't be around much longer. Didn't they file for bankruptcy or something?

Being a good consumer has absolutely nothing to do with being a smart marketer.

Good marketing can only go so far before admitting that porting games makes more money. The PC is not owned by Microsoft either, so Sony is free to make their own store and sell their games. They won't, because they want PC users to go PlayStation. It's all about that 20% from game sales they receive. They could do what Epic does and just buy timed exclusives for the PlayStation store, and everyone would hate them for it just like Epic.

So long as Sony makes more money from 3rd party game sales compared to porting their exclusives to PC then there's nothing to worry about. Microsoft though has lots to worry about, hence why nearly all their games get ported to PC.

[Tech614]

I was gonna type up a response to this, but Vash already wrecked your shit for me, so I'll leave it at that.

Oh man what will I do he "wrecked my shit"? I'm still waiting on you to disprove any points I made, I don't reply to Vash for a reason he lives in his own personal bias not in reality and doesn't debate in good faith nor state facts.

Lets be honest here, if there is anyone wrong, it's the person trying to tell Sony and Nintendo they don't know how to run a business and they could do a better job. Let me guess, you guys "wrecked their shit" with your flawless argument?

[Vash The Stampede]

Lets be honest here, if there is anyone wrong, it's the person trying to tell Sony and Nintendo they don't know how to run a business and they could do a better job. Let me guess, you guys "wrecked their shit" with your flawless argument?

Exclusives work so long as you're Sony and have a large install base where 3rd party games can flourish and make you money. If you're Microsoft then you screwed up and now have no exclusives and port your games to PC, at least until Microsoft gets their act together and spend money to make good exclusives. You could be like Nintendo and make a bunch of exclusives on the failed WiiU, only to later port most of those games onto the successful Switch and call them 'Deluxe'. So long as the 20% cut you get from game sales exceeds the amount you get from porting your games, you won't port your exclusives. Realistically, if the game has lost its purpose and is on sale for $18 then there's no harm to port it to PC. Specifically PC because it's a neutral platform, unlike consoles.

[Schattenlied]

I'm still waiting on you to disprove any points I made

I don't have to, Vash already did.

, I don't reply to Vash for a reason

And that reason is because you're wrong, and responding to him would require you to admit that.

doesn't debate in good faith nor state facts.

He stated the fact that the overwhelming majority of best selling games of all time have been multi-platform, even gave you a list.

Lets be honest here, if there is anyone wrong, it's the person trying to tell Sony and Nintendo they don't know how to run a business and they could do a better job. Let me guess, you guys "wrecked their shit" with your flawless argument?

The trend is shifting to less exclusives for a reason, you aren't as smart as you think you are, and you're blind to boot.