Brazil leader touted by right as free speech hero. aims to jail critical journalist

[Flarelaine]

From my experience, the right views left wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of global leftism and racism and bigotry (its gotten to the point where they have made an ethnic group into a pejorative in the Russians).

Centuries of repeated invasions and occupations made "Russian" into a pejorative where I live.

[Machismo]

From my experience, the right views left wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of global leftism and racism and bigotry (its gotten to the point where they have made an ethnic group into a pejorative in the Russians) . The left views right wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of he global right wing and of racism and bigotry (its gotten to the point where they have made an ethnic group into a pejorative in blacks). Both try to silence the other in the name of free speech. Its pretty terrible and partisan like anything else.

They are free to be as wrong as they want. There's no need for you to re-broadcast their lies and falsehoods.

[draynay]

From my experience, the right views left wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of global leftism and racism and bigotry

Why do you always refer to yourself as "the right"?

[Themius]

No, the right-wing is about fear and nothing more.

In the pursuit of their tradition though. That’s the root of it.

[Spectral]

American neo-cons have had a boner for arresting Greenwald for about as long as I can remember for working with Snowden. It'll be interesting seeing whether the National Review types hate Bolsinaro or Greenwald more.

[Dsonsion]

Yes? I think you'd think the same if you've seen what stating the truth can do.

There's nothing more inherently unstable than a fascistic regime. Fascism fights truth to preserve stability and endangers both.

[downnola]

American neo-cons have had a boner for arresting Greenwald for about as long as I can remember for working with Snowden. It'll be interesting seeing whether the National Review types hate Bolsinaro or Greenwald more.

That's easy: Bolsinaro.

[Easo]

It definitely is not.

You are coming from a region, which can be summarized by a saying from Japan "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down".
See, the stability you are preaching for has a price and leads to this shit - do not report bullying, do not report rape and other crimes (especially against "important" people), keep quiet and keep your head down, do not make a fuss for the sake of, ehh, peace? Call it whatever you want, harmony (hello China) or stability, the same thing, really.
I will concede that there is some truth to what you are saying (as the world is not always black and white), but someone will suffer in a system like this, for the system. And that is why I cannot accept your saying that individual is worth less than the stability.
It is all fun and games until YOU get thrown under the rock.

[Shadowferal]

I recall a poll that was done in Iraq...and about as honest as "anonymity" can be where the majority said flat out "better a stable government than a democratic one." Their world is violence and upheaval. Stability is making peace with the devil you know. Democracy as we know it is probably a strange thing.

[PC2]

I recall a poll that was done in Iraq...and about as honest as "anonymity" can be where the majority said flat out "better a stable government than a democratic one." Their world is violence and upheaval. Stability is making peace with the devil you know. Democracy as we know it is probably a strange thing.

Democracy is the only stable system that can survive in the long run. The reason for this is because it's the only system that guarantees that bad leaders can be removed without violence.

[ati87]

In the pursuit of their tradition though. That’s the root of it.

Hardly, care to explain what part of destroying the planet for personal gain is tradition?

[Edge-]

Hardly, care to explain what part of destroying the planet for personal gain is tradition?

I mean...that's kinda most of human history, especially following industrialization and the rise of capitalism. It was never a, "Yeah, fuck that planet!" thing, but always a, "Ooohhhh, more exploitable resources and profits! Who cares about anything else!" thing.

[Endus]

From my experience, the right views left wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of global leftism and racism and bigotry (its gotten to the point where they have made an ethnic group into a pejorative in the Russians). The left views right wing journalists as anti-free speech and nothing more than an arm of he global right wing and of racism and bigotry (its gotten to the point where they have made an ethnic group into a pejorative in blacks). Both try to silence the other in the name of free speech. Its pretty terrible and partisan like anything else.

This is . . . staggeringly nonsensical. Every single statement is wildly false.

Viewing journalists as "anti-free-speech" is insane.
The idea that there is "global leftism" is conspiracy nonsense.
The idea that left-wing views support racism and bigotry flies directly in the face of left-wing principles; it's internally contradictory.
People attacking right-wing journalists aren't claiming they're "anti-free-speech", but that they are abusing freedom of speech to spread disinformation. Not the same thing.
I have literally never heard anyone claim any "global right wing" for anything.
No, people are generally not "trying to silence each other". And what efforts there are to stifle speech are, like this case, from the right wing.
Also, "both sides" malarkey.

Democracy is the only stable system that can survive in the long run. The reason for this is because it's the only system that guarantees that bad leaders can be removed without violence.

History states otherwise.

Democracy led to the Nazi Reich.
Democracy led to the collapse of Athens, to such a degree that democracy was abandoned for centuries, as a concept.

Democracy isn't a shield against collapse, at all. It's often the engine of said collapse. The longest-reigning regimes in the world were not democratic.

[PC2]

History states otherwise.

Democracy led to the Nazi Reich.
Democracy led to the collapse of Athens, to such a degree that democracy was abandoned for centuries, as a concept.

Democracy didn't *cause* the Nazi Reich.
Democracy didn't *cause* Athens to collapse.

That was 100% the fault of the citizens, 0% the fault of democracy. This is why democracy is so fantastic, because there's no way that the citizens can scapegoat the system because the voting citizens are the system.

Democracy isn't a shield against collapse, at all.

I never said it was. Democracy is the most collapse-resistant system because it's the only a system based on changing leadership via consent and non-violence. Something being "the best" doesn't mean it's invincible to human stupidity.

It's often the engine of said collapse.

That's never ever been the case. In all cases where democracy failed the engine of collapse was always the *dangerous ideas* that were in the heads of the people. Democracy doesn't need to change, the *ideas* held by the voting citizens is what should change and improve over time.

The longest-reigning regimes in the world were not democratic.

What's your point? It doesn't matter how many years a regime lasted and experienced success. No amount of years and decades and centuries of success ever indicates that the system is robust and can generalize into the future.

[Milchshake]

This is . . . staggeringly nonsensical. Every single statement is wildly false.

Viewing journalists as "anti-free-speech" is insane.

People also need to remember that Journalism the activity is protected. Journalist is not a protected class.

I feel bad that Glenn is being targeted for doing actual journalism against Bolasarno.

I think it's ironic Glenn the Trump and Putin propagandist is being targeted by the one authoritarian he's not friends with.

[Endus]

Democracy didn't *cause* the Nazi Reich.
Democracy didn't *cause* Athens to collapse.

That was 100% the fault of the citizens, 0% the fault of democracy. This is why democracy is so fantastic, because there's no way that the citizens can scapegoat the system because the voting citizens are the system.

And thus, because, to quote you yourself;
Given that A: "That was 100% the fault of the citizens",
and also given that B: "the voting citizens are the system",
therefore we draw conclusion C: that was 100% the fault of the system.

Straight logic, based on your own statements; you debunked your own claim.

I never said it was. Democracy is the most collapse-resistant system because it's the only a system based on changing leadership via consent and non-violence. Something being the "best" doesn't mean it's invincible to human stupidity.

Democracy is not in any respect rooted in "non-violence". That's simply a false statement.
And you've provided zero evidence to back up that "most collapse-resistant system". The USA is one of the oldest extant democracies at nearly 250 years of age, and you've had a massive civil war and a lot of civil unrest in that time. 250 years is a pittance when compared to much longer-lasting systems of governance. In fact, if you go by that kind of measure, imperial systems seem to be the most resilient and longest-lasting.

You simply do not have facts to back any of this up. Over and above proving your own claim wrong, above.

What's your point? It doesn't matter how many years a regime experienced success. No amount of years and decades and centuries of success ever indicates that the system is robust and can generalize into the future.

That's your standard; you're the one who talked about being "collapse-resistant", and the only way to examine that is by looking how long a system lasts before it collapses.

Literally, your entire argument. Don't blame me because your standards don't hold up to scrutiny.

[Shadowferal]

History states otherwise.
Democracy led to the Nazi Reich.
Democracy led to the collapse of Athens, to such a degree that democracy was abandoned for centuries, as a concept.
Democracy isn't a shield against collapse, at all. It's often the engine of said collapse. The longest-reigning regimes in the world were not democratic.

Too true.
But look at who your rebutting. The guy that hates history, and moreover, learning from it.

Democracy in South America is still an experiment that is still ongoing. (and that's an optimistic assessment.)

[JohnBrown1917]

People also need to remember that Journalism the activity is protected. Journalist is not a protected class.

I feel bad that Glenn is being targeted for doing actual journalism against Bolasarno.

I think it's ironic Glenn the Trump and Putin propagandist is being targeted by the one authoritarian he's not friends with.

Man, you really got some strange world viewss.

[PC2]

Too true.
But look at who your rebutting. The guy that hates history, and moreover, learning from it.

Democracy in South America is still an experiment that is still ongoing. (and that's an optimistic assessment.)

Shadowferal try to avoid ad hominem posts because they derail the topic and they don't move the conversation forward. Focus on the content of a post and the central argument.

Talk about *ideas*, the source of an argument doesn't matters.

[ati87]

I mean...that's kinda most of human history, especially following industrialization and the rise of capitalism. It was never a, "Yeah, fuck that planet!" thing, but always a, "Ooohhhh, more exploitable resources and profits! Who cares about anything else!" thing.

Yea but that period was hardly the age of knowledge.
At this point the right-wing governments reached a point that it's borderline pollution for the sake of pollution.