Gonna miss titanforging.

[Sezh]

You said opinions exist because of a lack of facts, when that is not the case.
You can fuck off with that "say it with me" patronizing bullshit. Dont be so emotional, just because you said some dumb shit.

Don't insert yourself into a conversation like an asshole without knowing the context of the comments you're responding to. Ignored.

[kristenlean]

yes, it is.

[Philomene]

A few months ago McD's was running a promotion where you got a scratch card with every meal. The reward was random and ranged from a free upsize to a car. No one was outraged because of what someone else won.

Except you don’t go to McDonald’s for a bonus scratch card. Your analogy works for the final boss mount not for the gear. No one is outraging because they didn’t get the mount as no one is outraging because they didn’t get the car.

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I doubt it. Titanforging mostly bothered the elitists and those are a minority.

Blah-blah-blah. Sub numbers dramatically nosedived as they were going deeper with the diablo design that includes titanforge along with timegating and mobile-like gameplay. Yeah right it’s expansions themes or art/music that drove people away not titanforge or trash gameplay / progression systems.

[kaminaris]

FFS I was in line at McDonalds today and the dude in front of me had his nuggets McForge into a 14-piece and I only got a 10.

This is where major misconception started. People look at ilvls just as if it was a significant number. It's not.

Proper one would be, you were at mcdonalds today and ordered 300g of mcnuggets and guy in front of you got very lucky and got 305g for same price, because one piece was slightly bigger.

This equals having 1% more, are you still jealous?

[Philomene]

This is where major misconception started. People look at ilvls just as if it was a significant number. It's not.

Proper one would be, you were at mcdonalds today and ordered 300g of mcnuggets and guy in front of you got very lucky and got 305g for same price, because one piece was slightly bigger.

This equals having 1% more, are you still jealous?

“1%” means nothing without an actual scale. Anyway there shall not be any % difference for the same content. How did the game run for like 10 years without those systems? How didn’t people get bored ? How come suddenly people need titanforge to feel like content is relevant?

Because there’s catchup and season systems everywhere, because there’s no longer any attunements and such. That’s how you kept your old content relevant. Not by putting rng everywhere and making it “irrelevant” after 6 months

[Gungnir]

This is where major misconception started. People look at ilvls just as if it was a significant number. It's not.

Proper one would be, you were at mcdonalds today and ordered 300g of mcnuggets and guy in front of you got very lucky and got 305g for same price, because one piece was slightly bigger.

This equals having 1% more, are you still jealous?

Excuse you?
Are you saying that an exponential power and number growth over the expansion aren't "significant numbers"?

[Mardux]

Except you don’t go to McDonald’s for a bonus scratch card. Your analogy works for the final boss mount not for the gear. No one is outraging because they didn’t get the mount as no one is outraging because they didn’t get the car.

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Blah-blah-blah. Sub numbers dramatically nosedived as they were going deeper with the diablo design that includes titanforge along with timegating and mobile-like gameplay. Yeah right it’s expansions themes or art/music that drove people away not titanforge or trash gameplay / progression systems.

You don't get to decide why other people went to McDonalds. Just because you do something for a specific reason, doesn't mean others have to do the same thing for the same reason.

And This discussion is about titanforging. Maybe try and lay off trying to derail the conversation into timegating and arpg style gameplay?

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Excuse you?
Are you saying that an exponential power and number growth over the expansion aren't "significant numbers"?

the power increase of a 455 piece of gear compared to a 445 is very rarely significant, yes.

[Mightytasty]

This is where major misconception started. People look at ilvls just as if it was a significant number. It's not.

Proper one would be, you were at mcdonalds today and ordered 300g of mcnuggets and guy in front of you got very lucky and got 305g for same price, because one piece was slightly bigger.

This equals having 1% more, are you still jealous?

I have never ever been jealous of another guildmate’s titanforge. In fact I’m super pumped for them. The problem is it kills the excitement from base item drops.

[Sámsa]

Since m+ a lot of my friends and myself returned to WoW. Simply because we can do challenging content but without a fixed raid g schedule and without being dependend on 19 other people.

We are at least decent m+ players with a rating around 2.5k.

We only do m+ for a lot of reasons. Simply put: cause we are forced to go random from
Time to time, if the new system shows that we won’t be invited to higher keys because we are missing gear from the raid we are our again.

I don’t care about ilvl and stuff I care about being relevant. And you can say what ever you want about what ist necessary for a dungeon and what is not. People will always take the easy road of the opportunity arises.

[kaminaris]

“1%” means nothing without an actual scale. Anyway there shall not be any % difference for the same content. How did the game run for like 10 years without those systems? How didn’t people get bored ? How come suddenly people need titanforge to feel like content is relevant?

Because there’s catchup and season systems everywhere, because there’s no longer any attunements and such. That’s how you kept your old content relevant. Not by putting rng everywhere and making it “irrelevant” after 6 months

Wrong, people got bored and this is why this system was introduced. Without incremental gear upgrades it was pointless to run a content when you got item you wanted. It was also pointless to run a content if nothing dropped for you in specific instance.

Attunements did not keep old content relevant at all.

And 1% is the actual scale = power of your character. This is what +15 ilvls TF gives to you.

I was unfortunate to watch asmongold video the other day and it is absolutely astonishing and mildly amusing how a guy who is trying to pose as "intellectual", does not know basic math.

Incremental gear makes loot forgettable, that is right and that is correct. However "memorable" loot does nothing for actual gameplay. Just because you remember a name of a sword doesn't make it better loot system.

Like the example he gave was a sword with 8% drop chance. Yeah well with the exception that your loot is now not limited to A SINGLE item.

In TBC you wanted a sword with 8% drop chance from instance X.

Now you want the same item with the same drop chance and BECAUSE of titanforging it may be ALSO:
sword B +5 from another dungeon (slightly worse stats)
sword C +10 from yet another dungeon

And they are all equal because of titanforging.

Look at corruption, this is how blizzard fooled people, ilvl doesn't increase but item with echoing void or stars is worth +100 ilvl titanforging, yet people praised the system and bitched about titanforging. Why? Because math is too hard for some.

[Polarthief]

Because titanforging in addition to insane rng was and is worst thing ever.

Yeah, and they replaced it with an even worse system.

Don't worry OP. TF will be back in 9.0 because blizzard has no idea what to replace it with instead of tuning it properly.

[kaminaris]

Excuse you?
Are you saying that an exponential power and number growth over the expansion aren't "significant numbers"?

ilvl is NOT significant number, never have been. You need to take into consideration how often it happens - really rare, plus diminishing returns and stat weights of your character.

A single mistake in your rotation is dps loss equals to -15 ilvl on single item. +15 ilvl = 1% dps increase. For a single person thats absolutely something to ignore. If your entire raid got +15 ilvl upgrade on single item then it is significant, chances of that happening 0.00001%.

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Yeah, and they replaced it with an even worse system.

Don't worry OP. TF will be back in 9.0 because blizzard has no idea what to replace it with instead of tuning it properly.

It was tuned properly. Upgrades were marginal. Chances were abyssal low.

[Polarthief]

Look at corruption, this is how blizzard fooled people, ilvl doesn't increase but item with echoing void or stars is worth +100 ilvl titanforging, yet people praised the system and bitched about titanforging. Why? Because math is too hard for some.

Who is praising this system? It's way more broken than TF ever was to the point where 15 iLvl downgrades are a 10%~30% upgrade. This is by far the most out of balance garbage I've ever seen.

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It was tuned properly. Upgrades were marginal. Chances were abyssal low.

That doesn't make it a fun nor interesting system, esp when you have 0 TF and your stupidly lucky guildie has nearly every slot TF. Coupled with forced personal loot made this so freaking RNG and disgustingly annoying to deal with.

[kaminaris]

I have never ever been jealous of another guildmate’s titanforge. In fact I’m super pumped for them. The problem is it kills the excitement from base item drops.

This is problem that comes from your personality, probably because you don't understand how system worked. Technically with titanforging everything is either hit or miss.
hit = it is upgrade for you
miss = it is not upgrade

simple as that. It is literally the same as if they changed static stats on gear to random ones and removed the word "ilvl", with a guarantee that average stat budget of items are higher from harder content.

[Monolithi]

People can draw different opinions from the same fact, It is not always right or wrong.

Exactly. Some vote for democrats, some for republicans. None is wrong.

[kaminaris]

Who is praising this system? It's way more broken than TF ever was to the point where 15 iLvl downgrades are a 10%~30% upgrade. This is by far the most out of balance garbage I've ever seen.

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That doesn't make it a fun nor interesting system, esp when you have 0 TF and your stupidly lucky guildie has nearly every slot TF. Coupled with forced personal loot made this so freaking RNG and disgustingly annoying to deal with.

A lot of people are praising it because ilvl doesnt change.

And titanforging was not suppose to be fun nor interesting system, it was suppose to ensure you don't have to run THE SAME dungeon over 9001 times just to get one single specific item you wanted. Like people did before.

Hey dude? Wanna go Atal? No, nothing drops for me from there. Now you have low chance to get upgrades from all kinds of content.

[Axxil]

The actual minorities are the people who like/hated TF. The majority didn't care.

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A lot of people are praising it because ilvl doesnt change.

And titanforging was not suppose to be fun nor interesting system, it was suppose to ensure you don't have to run THE SAME dungeon over 9001 times just to get one single specific item you wanted. Like people did before.

Hey dude? Wanna go Atal? No, nothing drops for me from there. Now you have low chance to get upgrades from all kinds of content.

Except every warrior does that with King's Rest if they don't get the sword on the first run through.

[Soikona]

Except you don’t go to McDonald’s for a bonus scratch card. Your analogy works for the final boss mount not for the gear. No one is outraging because they didn’t get the mount as no one is outraging because they didn’t get the car.

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Blah-blah-blah. Sub numbers dramatically nosedived as they were going deeper with the diablo design that includes titanforge along with timegating and mobile-like gameplay. Yeah right it’s expansions themes or art/music that drove people away not titanforge or trash gameplay / progression systems.

It drove me away. I got tired of always chasing the wheel but never catching it. Gear doesn’t feel rewarding anymore, and with this new system it feels like a relief to get what I want, not excitement.

This new system feels like the developers went “you don’t want TF? Well, let’s see how much you miss it when we implement something worse! Make TF look amazing”.

[Oneirophobia]

How is that any different to raiding?

Raids have the BiS you try farming for all tier.

[thatmikeguy]

It was not that it was a bad system, but that the amounts should never outperform the next level of content.

As many said in the beginning, it could have been limited to five item levels. This would not disregard other systems even if they are more powerful for the user. It would not be a sole determination, and that's good IMO as it gives more options that way.

I don't have a problem with more options, I understand that I'll need to keep all my corruption and non-corruption gear to balance things, on top of AOE and tank. As a MT from back in the day with multiple resistance gear and far less space, this is normal for me personally, asI have always done it anyway.