So, controlling GY is now griefing?

[ellieg]

Damn, sounds like a breeze.

Meanwhile the rankers on my server play easily 18+ hours a day (horde) for the entire week with no breaks ever.

Ya that's cause you cant premade. When you can efficiently premade, have 6 min wins, and do that for 18 hrs for 5 days, You'll be so far ahead of any other rankers that you can afford the break.

[MatadorMedia]

This was later updated by a Blizzard blue poster to indicate the Honorless status is applied only upon rezzing in the entrance tunnels. This does not affect any other graveyards in AV. Blizz has long stated that graveyard camping is not griefing - even though it obviously is - but this specific change was intended to help players just joining the AV instance.

[Raelbo]

The fix was wrong, they should simply ban the assholes.

I suspect that is the exact plan.

The thing is that before the fix was in place, a griefing player could argue their innocence on the basis that they were simply playing for honor. But if all they're doing is killing players and not getting any honor, then suddenly they have no legitimate excuse. This lends a lot more legitimacy to Blizzard when they ban them.

[Kagthul]

Without reading most of the thread:

It was always Griefing.

It was always a dick move.

It was always against the ToS.

Even back in Vanilla.

Back then, they just handed out suspensions, because it wasnt as prevalent as it is now.

In an effort to avoid handing out suspensions, theyre trying to de-incentivize the behaviour.

---

Now, i agree with it being griefing - it definitely is.

Its a dick move.

But im not sure it needs to be against the ToS; griefing doesn't have to be "illegal", just discouraged.

But i dont make that decision.

And for all the people crying #nochanges on this particular topic...

... cool. Im all good with that. When you all get banned, dont whine about it, because that's what true "#nochanges" would be.

- - - Updated - - -

And you wont be able to loot people on GYs, either.

Awesome. (<-- not ironic).

Coupled with the "no number is shown in the join dialogue box" this will break the back of the 7-minute Drek cheese pull.

[jackofwind]

#somechanges, finally

Because there have truly been no changes until now

[arkanon]

Without reading most of the thread:

It was always Griefing.

It was always a dick move.

It was always against the ToS.

Even back in Vanilla.

Back then, they just handed out suspensions, because it wasnt as prevalent as it is now.

In an effort to avoid handing out suspensions, theyre trying to de-incentivize the behaviour.

---

Now, i agree with it being griefing - it definitely is.

Its a dick move.

But im not sure it needs to be against the ToS; griefing doesn't have to be "illegal", just discouraged.

But i dont make that decision.

And for all the people crying #nochanges on this particular topic...

... cool. Im all good with that. When you all get banned, dont whine about it, because that's what true "#nochanges" would be.

- - - Updated - - -

And you wont be able to loot people on GYs, either.

Awesome. (<-- not ironic).

Coupled with the "no number is shown in the join dialogue box" this will break the back of the 7-minute Drek cheese pull.

I love how infatuated you are with Blizzard that you will believe anything they say. This was NEVER griefing, it was extremely common in most AV in vanilla, especially later on, and i am not aware of a single person ever being punished in any way at all for it.

"if a PvP solution exists..." - and this is literally instanced team based pvp, so yeah, a pvp solution exists. The fact you guys believe this was ever a bannable offense is beyond laughable. Blizzard wanted to make a change, and just pulled a load of rubbish out their ass and you gobbled it up and asked for more.

Since you know so much about it, im sure you will be able to provide specific examples of players who were banned / suspended for engaging in pvp in a BG during vanilla. I mean you say with absolute certainty that people were banned for it, im confident you can back that up with something other than "trust me, i remember my mate Bill telling me about his mate Bruce whos other mate totally said he got banned for pvp, and it certainly wasnt for botting!"

[Kagthul]

I love how infatuated you are with Blizzard that you will believe anything they say. This was NEVER griefing,

It is, by definition, griefing.

You are using a game mechanic to make someone else unable to enjoy the game.

Thats the textbook definition of griefing. Also note that i dont agree that griefing should be bannable, which you conveniently gloss over. But that doesn't make the behaviour in question not griefing. It is, straight up. Its you, being an asshole, and depriving someone else of fun. Thats griefing.

it was extremely common in most AV in vanilla, especially later on, and i am not aware of a single person ever being punished in any way at all for it.

Yes, because your anecdotal experience is the only relevant experience. OTOH, MY anecdotal experience is that i saw ENTIRE FUCKING GUILDS get banned for it. Go ask The Enclave how they enjoyed their 7 and then 14 day suspensions back in Vanilla on Bleeding Hollow - US. Its fucking documented on their forums.

"if a PvP solution exists..." - and this is literally instanced team based pvp, so yeah, a pvp solution exists. The fact you guys believe this was ever a bannable offense is beyond laughable.

Since it provably is and people were provably banned for it, the only thing laughable here is you. But, looking at your posting history, which is high on ignorant opinion and absolutely devoid of facts, im not shocked. You're a consumate troll

Blizzard wanted to make a change, and just pulled a load of rubbish out their ass and you gobbled it up and asked for more.

Since you know so much about it, im sure you will be able to provide specific examples of players who were banned / suspended for engaging in pvp in a BG during vanilla.

Yeah, i just did, above.

I mean you say with absolute certainty that people were banned for it, im confident you can back that up with something other than "trust me, i remember my mate Bill telling me about his mate Bruce whos other mate totally said he got banned for pvp, and it certainly wasnt for botting!"

Even if i did say something to the affect of your line of drivel, above, it wouldn't be any less relevant than you saying you never saw anyone banned. They're both the very definition of anecdotal. But you can go and spend about 20 seconds in google looking up stuff about it and see lots of documented evidence of people getting banned for griefing, and specifically for GY camping in BG as a form of Griefing - complete with screenshots of the emails, chats with CSRs, the whole shebang.

Griefing is against the ToS.

Violations of the ToS can and will get you suspended or banned if you are caught/reported enough that Blizzard takes notice (or is forced to take notice since their stance on enforcement has gotten increasingly lax and gone from pro-active to purely reactive as the years have worn on).

That has -always- been the case, from literally the day the game launched in 2004.

But, i mean, keep on being wrong. Its about the only thing you appear to be any good at.

But dont bother replying to me. You're going on ignore after this post. I dont need to have my IQ reduced by the shit you spew.

[arkanon]

It is, by definition, griefing.

PvP Griefing

These actions, although some may see them as dishonorable, are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by gamemaster staff.

Bluewalling
Corpse camping - Not considered griefing on servers designated as "PvP"
Graveyard camping
Ganking - Not considered griefing on servers designated as "PvP"
Kill stealing
PKing repeatedly
Twinking
Training mobs

Funny thing is, every single time you guys talk about some vanilla guild being banned for "camping and pvp" it turns out to be something COMPLETELY different. The last one was that they had been intentionally crashing servers, and had absolutely NOTHING to do with pvp. And yet you all claimed it was a "well known fact" they were banned for pvp.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if i did say something to the affect of your line of drivel, above, it wouldn't be any less relevant than you saying you never saw anyone banned. They're both the very definition of anecdotal.

I am saying i am not aware of anyone being banned for pvp in a bg. You are saying it was common. I am asking you to back up your claim with something other than "trust me"

[Hellobolis]

I love how infatuated you are with Blizzard that you will believe anything they say. This was NEVER griefing, it was extremely common in most AV in vanilla, especially later on, and i am not aware of a single person ever being punished in any way at all for it.

Then there must be videos right?

Ive never heard of that happening, which one would think would be impossible if it was common. You'd hear people complain regularly.

I have fond memories of several vanilla pvp videos, but i've never seen one where this happened. ima go google now.

[Sharein]

• Alterac Valley
• Spirit Guides now apply Honorless Target to the players they resurrect.
• Developers’ note: We observed some behavior in Alterac Valley that can only be described as griefing—a violation of the In-Game Code of Conduct. If this had taken place in original WoW, it would have been seen as either a situation that needed to be fixed preventatively or a circumstance that called for account suspensions. We feel that the preventative solution is the more amicable one.

How is this suddenly griefing?

Why do you think the GYs in other BGs were changed? It isn't -suddenly- griefing, it has always been griefing.

[Unholyground]

Because there have truly been no changes until now

Ya but people seem to think there is none. I noticed all of them but they need more, like a modern character and npc model option.

[jackofwind]

Ya but people seem to think there is none. I noticed all of them but they need more, like a modern character and npc model option.

You can patch it client-side, it's not too hard - but I agree it should be an in-game toggle.

[itsmonika]

Hmmmmm.... This was new to me