It's been months, and I still can't bear to play classic

[barrsftw]

Unfortunately, there remains a small but extremely vocal minority who refuse to accept this is the reality for a huge percentage of players who try classic. They just flat out refuse to accept it, and although they throw endless word salad at the issue, all it boils down to is "no, the game is perfect, its YOU that is wrong, not the game". This is the attitude that frustrates so many classic players like myself who enjoy it for what it is, a warts and all, horribly dated, slog-fest of brain-dead content, with brain-dead rotations, for people who want to spend endless hours grinding the exact same brain-dead content with sub LFR difficulty, and world content with Sub WQ difficulty.

Honestly, some are enjoying classic so much because they have time, not skill, with no interest in improving as a player, and simply want to enjoy the ride. That is absolutely fine, games have an "easy mode" or "story mode" for a reason - some people dont want to be challenged and just want to enjoy the ride. The share amount of players putting in 12-16 hours a day to ensure they are middle of the pack in pvp is mind boggling to me, but its not my life, not my time.

This is so ironic it's laughable.

@OP, maybe when they release TBC it might spark up your interest again? I'm thinking TBC will be the "sweet spot" for a lot of players in terms of class balance / rotations / etc. It's great we have two distinct options though!

[Castration]

You realize this reads like a petulant child screaming, "I'm too smart for you to understand, dad!"

You have multiple people explaining why you're wrong, yet you continue to to smugly sit back and not accept it. Hilarious.

exactly why i stopped replying to him, he has no clue what he's talking about.

[arkanon]

This is so ironic it's laughable.

@OP, maybe when they release TBC it might spark up your interest again? I'm thinking TBC will be the "sweet spot" for a lot of players in terms of class balance / rotations / etc. It's great we have two distinct options though!

Explain the irony.

- - - Updated - - -

It absolutely does when there’s variations of the same gear. It cheapens it all, especially the top

I like how you call them "variations" instead of "vastly inferior versions", which is what they actually are - variations isnt technically WRONG, just a bit disingenuous. I dont like 4 difficulties - 2 would be fine, but to suggest that a fully geared mythic raider is just a "variation" of an LFR raider is flat out dishonest.

[enigma77]

Maybe it's just not for you?

[arkanon]

Maybe it's just not for you?

Seems that way - Entertainment and enjoyment are very subjective - and although i was obsessed with Vanilla in 05/06, that is certainly not the case now. I have changed, the gaming industry has changed, and my expectations from games has absolutely changed.

I will get back into raiding tonight on retail, and no doubt have a blast doing it for a while, and then probably flick back and forth between the two. This is the smartest part about the combined sub - there is no "guilt" about not playing one or the other for weeks or months at a time, or quitting one altogether, as long as you are personally getting value for money out of the sub, it doesnt matter.

[Battlebeard]

The leveling is a pain and it sucks. But sometimes you have to wade through the crap to reach the goal.

Once you get 60, the game gets really good. I haven't been able to stand BFA since Classic came out even though I tried a few times.

[Zarator8]

True, but in classic's case a lot of the rotations are both simple and bad.

Or have you truly deluded yourself into thinking shit like Frostbolt spam is good?

I agree that there're more fun things to do than spamming Frostbolt, but if my only choice was between spamming Frostbolt and juggling 5+ different damaging skills on different short cooldowns with procs etc., I'd much rather spam Frostbolt all day.

Why, you may wonder? Because I've always been of the opinion that the difficulty of raiding should come from bosses, not from playing your own class. Classes shouldn't be braindead easy, IMO, but should still be easy and intuitive enough that one can pick them up and play with them without having to spend days and weeks finetuning them (at least in regards to the actual gameplay, not stuff like how to gear them up etc.).

For me, the sweet spot would be something like Destruction Warlock in WotLK. You have a DoT (Immolate, 15 sec), two short CD spells (Conflagrate on 10 sec CD and Chaos Bolt on 12 sec CD), and a filler spell (Incinerate). That's it. Yet, even back in WotLK, certain specs like Affliction warlock, Enhancement shaman etc. went WAY beyond that, to the point I felt burned out by those classes more than by ICC heroic bosses.

In this context, even spamming Frostbolt can look like an attractive option.

[justandulas]

You know whats comparable to vanilla naxx? wotlk naxx

I’m presuming you got banned for that ridiculous statement. Lol

Vanilla naxx isn’t comparable to wotlk easy mode 4 different raid sizes naxx

To clear naxx in wotlk, you had to be logged in and at least afk in the entrance. It was so easy they actually had achievements for (no one dying)

Compare to vanilla naxx which is the cream of the crop. A real difficulty unless wotlk. And to get there, you have to earn it. You can’t just show up patch day, you have to climb that mountain to get to naxx

Sure, it’s elitist but it’s a lot better of a system

[Tekkommo]

I’m presuming you got banned for that ridiculous statement. Lol

Vanilla naxx isn’t comparable to wotlk easy mode 4 different raid sizes naxx

To clear naxx in wotlk, you had to be logged in and at least afk in the entrance. It was so easy they actually had achievements for (no one dying)

Compare to vanilla naxx which is the cream of the crop. A real difficulty unless wotlk. And to get there, you have to earn it. You can’t just show up patch day, you have to climb that mountain to get to naxx

Sure, it’s elitist but it’s a lot better of a system

You're going to get slated for saying that because people that have been clearing Naxx for 10 years will easily clear Naxx on Classic in a matter of hours.

If you're in a guild where the majority haven't done Naxx, good chance you won't even clear it week one. But, if you come from a private server, it should be easily done.

[justandulas]

You're going to get slated for saying that because people that have been clearing Naxx for 10 years will easily clear Naxx on Classic in a matter of hours.

If you're in a guild where the majority haven't done Naxx, good chance you won't even clear it week one. But, if you come from a private server, it should be easily done.

Regardless of how quickly private servers or the ultra elite clear it, there’s no valid comparison to wotlk naxx other than the setting

Difficulty wise, wotlk naxx has nothing comparable to vanilla naxx. One is the easiest entry level raid in wow history, and the other is the hardest raid to ever get to in wow history

[Broken Fox]

I agree that there're more fun things to do than spamming Frostbolt, but if my only choice was between spamming Frostbolt and juggling 5+ different damaging skills on different short cooldowns with procs etc., I'd much rather spam Frostbolt all day.

Why, you may wonder? Because I've always been of the opinion that the difficulty of raiding should come from bosses, not from playing your own class. Classes shouldn't be braindead easy, IMO, but should still be easy and intuitive enough that one can pick them up and play with them without having to spend days and weeks finetuning them (at least in regards to the actual gameplay, not stuff like how to gear them up etc.).

For me, the sweet spot would be something like Destruction Warlock in WotLK. You have a DoT (Immolate, 15 sec), two short CD spells (Conflagrate on 10 sec CD and Chaos Bolt on 12 sec CD), and a filler spell (Incinerate). That's it. Yet, even back in WotLK, certain specs like Affliction warlock, Enhancement shaman etc. went WAY beyond that, to the point I felt burned out by those classes more than by ICC heroic bosses.

In this context, even spamming Frostbolt can look like an attractive option.

I agree that the difficulty should come from the boss and not fiddling with a rotation. I cant think of any in WoW (in the past or present) that are overly complicated though. FF14 was really bad with that shit for a while but its gotten better.

[Niwes]

I don’t get why people feel the need to make this kind of thread. Ok, so you don’t like to play Classic and so what? What are you trying to achieve by making a thread about that?

this x 100. only useful reply.

[Speedlance]

Its the simplicity off classic that make me like it.

[Naraga]

I don’t get why people feel the need to make this kind of thread. Ok, so you don’t like to play Classic and so what? What are you trying to achieve by making a thread about that?

This says it all.

I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc. Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"

[Alpharius]

This says it all.

I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc. Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"

It’s just a specific circle, but I get what you mean.

[Daymanmb]

Nice blog post.

[cparle87]

I had to comment on this, because I've seen it several times and it makes me lol every time. Usually I just sit back and watch these "my opinion is right and yours is wrong" fights with my Netflix and popcorn, but every once in a while someone chimes in with an opinion that's "objectively true, not a matter of opinion in any way." Dude. You literally said, "better." What makes something better is a matter of opinion, especially in this case.

Yes, there are more races and classes. That's a fact.

That more races and classes is better is an opinion. For instance, it's my opinion that more races and classes is a lot of the problem with retail wow. 1) I wish they wouldn't spend dev time on it and would spend dev time on raids and quests rather than a race i will never play, no matter how good the racials are.

This just in, WoW has multiple teams that all do different things. You're not getting fewer raids and quests because the art team designed a new playable race.

[arkanon]

This just in, WoW has multiple teams that all do different things. You're not getting fewer raids and quests because the art team designed a new playable race.

This just in - development teams have budgets. Those funds are distributed between different groups within that team. Instead of hiring people to design store mounts, they could be hiring more people for the raid teams. See, thats the issue when you take the multi million dollar corporations PR lines and use them in a normal setting - people point out how silly they are.

If your local police department, which is made up of multiple teams, had a 400 person team dedicated to investigating garden gnome thefts, and that team was 60% of the total police force, i think you would say "hey, this isnt ideal" and when they turn around and say "this gnome division has no impact on the murder team, they are different teams" you would laugh and their face and point out the ridiculousness of the statement. But for some weird reason, when blizzard say it, you gobble it up.

[Garymorilix]

This just in - development teams have budgets. Those funds are distributed between different groups within that team. Instead of hiring people to design store mounts, they could be hiring more people for the raid teams. See, thats the issue when you take the multi million dollar corporations PR lines and use them in a normal setting - people point out how silly they are.

If your local police department, which is made up of multiple teams, had a 400 person team dedicated to investigating garden gnome thefts, and that team was 60% of the total police force, i think you would say "hey, this isnt ideal" and when they turn around and say "this gnome division has no impact on the murder team, they are different teams" you would laugh and their face and point out the ridiculousness of the statement. But for some weird reason, when blizzard say it, you gobble it up.

This is not how finances work.

In fact, it's the exact opposite. They do not "hire" new people to design store mounts. You would need to be extremely out of touch with reality to think that.
They give that job to currently existing designers so they have something to do for their salary that they can turn into profits.
Else, they could just literally fire the artist cuz he has no "actual job" to do.

A police department does not work like that in real life either.

If you have zero grasp about financing why the fuck are you trying the make a point out of it?
Your understanding is the definiton of surface level.

[arkanon]

This is not how finances work.

In fact, it's the exact opposite. They do not "hire" new people to design store mounts. You would need to be extremely out of touch with reality to think that.
They give that job to currently existing designers so they have something to do for their salary that they can turn into profits.
Else, they could just literally fire the artist cuz he has no "actual job" to do.

A police department does not work like that in real life either.

If you have zero grasp about financing why the fuck are you trying the make a point out of it?
Your understanding is the definiton of surface level.

This is just a really sloppy attempt at discrediting what i said without providing a single counter argument. Your entire argument can be boiled down to "na, you are wrong". First off, your understanding of how the industry works is flatout wrong - a large portion of creative / art work is done on short, fixed term contracts, secondments, and a casual workforce working under casual contract law. Even huge companies such as Weta Digital and Weta Workshops have a very small full time permanent workforce.

The problem is that the returns from something like a store mount are very easily measured - the item goes on the store, and the returns are clearly defined. Raiding however, is just one component of the game, and might be only part of the reason a player subscribes (the ROI). So although raid participation can be measured, the direct return on investment is much more difficult to gauge.

No matter how much word salad you throw at the issue - WoW has a budget they must work within - and that budget is split up between various teams.