Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Skroe]

Yeah, I know how it works, but the odds are in his favor in almost every state. That said, NH is the one that he has a chance of winning and of course that could change predictions going forward, but then he loses SC and they could go right back. My point was more about Bernie fans already talking like they won’t back Biden. You get them together with people like you, and it suppresses enthusiasm enough for Trump to win. I get why right wing people do it, it’s a great strategy, it’d just be nice for the other side to not make it so easy for them.

They were never going to back Biden. They were never going to back anybody but Saint Sanders, for whatever reason. They never were going to be counted on.

They too, are a cult.

[starlord]

Or maybe they'll just burn everything to the ground if democracy isn't respected and you guys can try start again from 0.

how are they going to "burn everything" if they can't even be bothered to participate in the democratic process?

[starlord]

With fire. Never underestimate fire.

bernie fans sure are fond of empty threats.

[starlord]

Won't you be voting Bernie too?

if he gets the nomination. *shrug* note how i dont threaten to burn things if he doesn't.

[JohnBrown1917]

They were never going to back Biden. They were never going to back anybody but Saint Sanders, for whatever reason. They never were going to be counted on.

They too, are a cult.

Man, left-wing people not backing a senile conservative? Who saw that coming!

To the socialist supporters, he already is the comprise candidate, why the hell what sort of person ever back Biden?

[starlord]

Man, left-wing people not backing a senile conservative? Who saw that coming!

To the socialist supporters, he already is the comprise candidate, why the hell what sort of person ever back Biden?

do you think its realistic to expect to have a candidate that you agree with everything on every time?

[starlord]

I said we'll burn things down if he does. Important difference.

But no, more seriously. If the status quo is so heavily entrenched that it can't be uprooted through elections, then more drastic measures will be needed - and institutional pillars and artifacts might need to be torn down, even through unconventional means.

its so entrenched because half the population doesn't vote. imagine if they did? so threatening to not vote is like, ops normal.

[jonnysensible]

I said we'll burn things down if he does. Important difference.

But no, more seriously. If the status quo is so heavily entrenched that it can't be uprooted through elections, then more drastic measures will be needed - and institutional pillars and artifacts might need to be torn down, even through unconventional means.

wow accelerationist bullshit.

Didn't @Slacker76 just warn about red brown alliances.

[Milchshake]

wow accelerationist bullshit.

Didn't @Slacker76 just warn about red brown alliances.

I thought these "European" Bernie supporters would be more familiar with that history. But they really sound like your average podcast-addict that's swimming in some Alex Jones type fantasy.

[d00mGuArD]

But no, more seriously. If the status quo is so heavily entrenched that it can't be uprooted through elections, then more drastic measures will be needed - and institutional pillars and artifacts might need to be torn down, even through unconventional means.

I am genuinely interested to know.
What drastic measures you have in mind.
Also what drastic changes you would like to see!

[Skroe]

Or maybe they'll just burn everything to the ground if democracy isn't respected and you guys can try start again from 0.

Uh huh.

Here's the scenario.

House and Senate pass a budget. Bernie refuses to sign it (veto). It still passes because these budgets pass with veto-proof majorities. $800 billion to the DoD just like that.

So much for the fire.

[Elegiac]

Uh huh.

Here's the scenario.

House and Senate pass a budget. Bernie refuses to sign it (veto). It still passes because these budgets pass with veto-proof majorities. $800 billion to the DoD just like that.

So much for the fire.

Mhm. And when the next recession hits and the already badly broken social safety nets of the US prove utterly inadequate to the task and actual civil disorder starts to spread to the US from other similarly unequal countries, I'm sure the consolation of "well, at least we're containing China" will certainly settle the public's concerns.

Repeating "Congress won't do X" is the same defense Trumpsters give when cornered regarding his guilt on Impeachment. It isn't actually discussing the merits of reform, it's just going 'nyeh nyeh it'll never happen' without acknowledging the reasons behind the push for reform.

Because not spending money on healthcare and education is apparently hilarious. But that's what you get when politics is exclusively the realm of American aristocrats.

[Skroe]

Mhm. And when the next recession hits and the already badly broken social safety nets of the US prove utterly inadequate to the task and actual civil disorder starts to spread to the US from other similarly unequal countries, I'm sure the consolation of "well, at least we're containing China" will certainly settle the public's concerns.

Repeating "Congress won't do X" is the same defense Trumpsters give when cornered regarding his guilt on Impeachment. It isn't actually discussing the merits of reform, it's just going 'nyeh nyeh it'll never happen' without acknowledging the reasons behind the push for reform.

Because not spending money on healthcare and education is apparently hilarious. But that's what you get when politics is exclusively the realm of American aristocrats.

First of all for the umpteenth time, in these examples I give about how the budget process works, I highlight defense only because it’s something progressives basically don’t give a fig about and think is only useful as something to be cut. Of course the defense budget is passed as part of the same annual process as education and aspects of the the safety net (much of the safety net is automatic in funding levels). But discretionary spending, which includes defense, goes up together or goes down together. That is how these bills pass with huge majorities.

On top of that, worth reminding folks that large portions of the military industrial complex are in blue and purple districts and states. Why do you think people used to joke that Warren was a Senator from D-Raytheon? Raytheon is one of Massachusetts largest employers.

There is no need for reform on this topic. The discretionary budgets passed by Congress since the two year deal model started are generally quite good. They’re a big reason why the damage from Trump is as contained as it is. Because he has been unable to find much expression of his policies through the budget, and without money, nothing happens.

The next President will be the same too. They will find themselves constrained by the model. Far more than Presidents before Obama in 2010 were. For decades Presidents largely got their budget requests. Not anymore. Not since 2011 by a long shot.

The point I’m making has to do with the myopia of progressives. You want change? Electing a progressive President doesn’t actually do that. The budget process, which is a product of negotiations between political adversaries and not corruption, must change.

Barring that the progressive wish list will remain a dream.

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Oh and if the social safety net isn’t up to snuff in the next election, and it will probably will be, Congress will just borrow and expand it in a bill then next President will sign

So yeah, no fire.

[JohnBrown1917]

wow accelerationist bullshit.

Didn't @Slacker76 just warn about red brown alliances.

Accelionrionism involves supporting Trump.
Red-brown Allainces are not a thing, no matter how much our resident libs here try to make it a thing.

[Endus]

I said we'll burn things down if he does. Important difference.

But no, more seriously. If the status quo is so heavily entrenched that it can't be uprooted through elections, then more drastic measures will be needed - and institutional pillars and artifacts might need to be torn down, even through unconventional means.

The status quo isn't "entrenched" at all. The entire government could be wholly replaced in about 5 years or so, and it's only that long because some Senate terms are 6 years, and Senators elected in 2018 aren't back up for re-election until 2024.

Literally, Americans could vote every single member of Congress and Senate out of office and replace them with literally anyone else who can kick up the bare minimums to enter the race.

They don't, because Americans largely want that status quo. Like 95% of Americans. The government reflects that electorate.

We can debate the reasons for that, but it isn't systemic. The Democrats and Republicans only have power because Americans keep voting for them. Literally all it takes is . . . voting for literally anyone else.

[jeezusisacasual]

Mhm. And when the next recession hits and the already badly broken social safety nets of the US prove utterly inadequate to the task and actual civil disorder starts to spread to the US from other similarly unequal countries, I'm sure the consolation of "well, at least we're containing China" will certainly settle the public's concerns.

Repeating "Congress won't do X" is the same defense Trumpsters give when cornered regarding his guilt on Impeachment. It isn't actually discussing the merits of reform, it's just going 'nyeh nyeh it'll never happen' without acknowledging the reasons behind the push for reform.

Because not spending money on healthcare and education is apparently hilarious. But that's what you get when politics is exclusively the realm of American aristocrats.

Because when adverts are being played wall to wall about how X or Y voted to remove jobs ( the reason why Trump was elected mind you ) will destroy them. It was for this very reason that the suppliers and defense contractors moved to put as many places spread out so that way they could " own " the legislature. You would need to form a very odd coalition to fight against this. This is exactly the reason why it will be really hard to displace those jobs and another reason why automation will hit them last because they want that income. You would have a far better chance at saying the US Military should only use its own agencies instead of defense contractors to attempt at saving money because at this point its impossible like touching guns.

If anything i would want them to expand into more areas in which Democrats need to have support from, move those production facilities in areas to " control " another member of congress. Its brilliant and at this point the damage is done.

[jonnysensible]

Accelionrionism involves supporting Trump.
Red-brown Allainces are not a thing, no matter how much our resident libs here try to make it a thing.

no it doesnt, burn it all down and start again is mad accelerationist talk. There is active Coalitional accelerationism ongoing.

They are a thing, tankies love that shit not to mention Third Positionism.

[Milchshake]

Another self inflicted wound by Bernie and his senior advisers. It's another Cenk endorsement!

It's just Bernie trying to cannibalize Yang voters for like a 0.5% bump. Anything for surge. I imagine Bernie will revoke his acceptance of Rogans endorse in like a day.


"In 2019, 25 transgender people were killed because of the type of transphobia that Rogan stokes."



On a pure economic socialism note.

Accepting endorsements from Millionaire Podcasters is problematic. These guys are just grifters preying on the working class.

[mvaliz]

I dont see anything wrong with what Bernie said back than anyhow. If anything he was reminding the USA of it's horrible foundations and how they keep on influencing policy today. Back then most democrats were still pro slavery most likely. Kinda courageous of him to state what he said in the climate of the 70ies.

There is nobody who's going to convince me that a man who marched with MLK and was arrested in Chicago participating in the Civil Rights Protests was a racist.

- - - Updated - - -

They don't, because Americans largely want that status quo. Like 95% of Americans. The government reflects that electorate.

In my experience its not that the majority of Americans want status quo - it's that my fellow American's simply don't give a shit about Politics and focus on their day-to-day lives, assuming Politicians are all corrupt. They love to feel it's something "sheep" participate in and they're above it by focusing on their lives, therefore they don't have to follow anything politically because that makes them "superior".

- - - Updated - - -

Why do you think people used to joke that Warren was a Senator from D-Raytheon? =

I don't think nor believe anybody has said or heard that outside of your business circles. Your point of Raytheon may be true, but I'm just talking about that line.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh huh.

Here's the scenario.

House and Senate pass a budget. Bernie refuses to sign it (veto). It still passes because these budgets pass with veto-proof majorities. $800 billion to the DoD just like that.

So much for the fire.

You expecting Bernie supporters (outside of the Youtube Outrage Pundits) to believe they're going to get 100% of everything is about as asinine as the Dump supporters who claim we expect Dump to actually be convicted and impeached by the Senate Republicans.

Most of us know damn well we're not going to get everything in one tour of Bernie - hell, even most of the stuff. We're just happy to finally be getting the damn ball rolling and are going to start making serious attempts! If he just manages to pass Medicare For All in his first 4 years - that alone is enough of a win for most of us!

[Fabray]

Another self inflicted wound by Bernie and his senior advisers. It's another Cenk endorsement!

It's just Bernie trying to cannibalize Yang voters for like a 0.5% bump. Anything for surge. I imagine Bernie will revoke his acceptance of Rogans endorse in like a day.


"In 2019, 25 transgender people were killed because of the type of transphobia that Rogan stokes."



On a pure economic socialism note.

Accepting endorsements from Millionaire Podcasters is problematic. These guys are just grifters preying on the working class.

Holy shit. Does that statement continue to get even stupider, or is that the whole thing? Can’t tell what’s worse, that a human would say something so asinine, or that you’d post it thinking it was factual and important. *shudder*