CNN releases audio between Warren and Sanders

[Edge-]

this was in that article:

sooo apparently he has indeed made sexist statements in the past.

Yeah, five decades ago. If you look at everything he's said more recently than 1972 he strikes a very different tone.

[starlord]

Yeah, five decades ago. If you look at everything he's said more recently than 1972 he strikes a very different tone.

okay and since he said he supports women presidents *three* decades ago that means he could never possibly say something that could be construed as sexist?

[Edge-]

okay and since he said he supports women presidents *three* decades ago that means he could never possibly say something that could be construed as sexist?

Not at all, and I never implied that. But if you look at his views and policies on gender, it's clear that he is a very different person now than 50 years ago, and has been this different person for decades.

People change over time. He has apparently changed for the better on this and his record seems largely positive in recent decades. I'm not going to hold something that someone said half a century ago against them after they've spent decades acting otherwise.

[starlord]

Not at all, and I never implied that. But if you look at his views and policies on gender, it's clear that he is a very different person now than 50 years ago, and has been this different person for decades.

People change over time. He has apparently changed for the better on this and his record seems largely positive in recent decades. I'm not going to hold something that someone said half a century ago against them after they've spent decades acting otherwise.

i agree with reeves it was likely a miscommunication. but the way he & his followers have handled it has made it turn a lot uglier than it needed to be. he is human like any other and surely makes mistakes sometimes.
its not an automatic given that warren is "lying to get SJW's on her side" like that even makes sense anyways.

[Blur4stuff]

I'm happy to see almost all voters saw right through this. They immediately knew it had nothing to do with sexism. Warren and others thought this would be a great political move to bump her up in the polls/get votes. I love that this didn't work.

[GreenJesus]

I'm happy to see almost all voters saw right through this. They immediately knew it had nothing to do with sexism. Warren and others thought this would be a great political move to bump her up in the polls/get votes. I love that this didn't work.

Yep. Bernie surged past Biden after the voters saw CNN attempting to rig the primary election again in favor of the DNC establishment. Real glad to see Bernie in the lead.

[Spectral]

Why do you assume she's the one lying in this scenario?

History - Sanders is pretty honest, Warren has been caught in quite a few lies. Timing - she brought it to the press at a time designed to maximize political advantage. The specific content of the claim also just doesn't actually seem like something Sanders would be likely to say.

[starlord]

I'm happy to see almost all voters saw right through this. They immediately knew it had nothing to do with sexism. Warren and others thought this would be a great political move to bump her up in the polls/get votes. I love that this didn't work.

its almost like there's a bias in voters against women bringing up issues like that or something.

[Fugus]

"If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, the Presidential election leaves the Electoral College process and moves to Congress. The House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most electoral votes. ... Each Senator casts one vote for Vice President."

Then that still makes it go down to a 2 party system because the majority of Congress will make sure to vote for their person, no matter how screwed up they are, even if they didn't get more the any of the rest.

[Jehct]

its almost like there's a bias in voters against women bringing up issues like that or something.

Well yea. The new thing for Brocialists is " Believe women, unless it goes against my agenda".

[Reeve]

History - Sanders is pretty honest, Warren has been caught in quite a few lies. Timing - she brought it to the press at a time designed to maximize political advantage. The specific content of the claim also just doesn't actually seem like something Sanders would be likely to say.

What lies are you talking about that Warren has told? As for Sanders' truthfullness, I seem to recall him equivocating quite deliberately about his history with the Sandanistas, so I don't have too much trouble believing that he might lie about something that looks bad in the public eye.

Moreover, I think the most likely scenario is that neither are lying and that it's a misunderstanding. That Sanders probably said something about it being difficult for a woman to beat Donald Trump due to existing misogyny out there, and Warren mishearing or interpreting that to mean he didn't think a woman would be a good candidate for President. But what I see from Warren in the clip at the beginning of this thread looks like genuine anger at being called a liar on National TV, and Sanders uncomfortably avoiding it.

[jeezusisacasual]

So wait Left twitter and other people are mad at Sanders for embracing a Rogan endorsement but are totally fine with Clinton on Howard Stern? I tend to think that Joe Rogan is a far better human being then Howard Stern was? But again everyone can and has down horrible shit from me to you to anyone, grow up and get over it.

This is how Democrats lose.

[Deadite]

What lies are you talking about that Warren has told? As for Sanders' truthfullness, I seem to recall him equivocating quite deliberately about his history with the Sandanistas, so I don't have too much trouble believing that he might lie about something that looks bad in the public eye.

Moreover, I think the most likely scenario is that neither are lying and that it's a misunderstanding. That Sanders probably said something about it being difficult for a woman to beat Donald Trump due to existing misogyny out there, and Warren mishearing or interpreting that to mean he didn't think a woman would be a good candidate for President. But what I see from Warren in the clip at the beginning of this thread looks like genuine anger at being called a liar on National TV, and Sanders uncomfortably avoiding it.

There is footage from Sanders going back decades when he says he thinks a woman could be president. I guess behind closed doors he is just another agent of the patriarchy!

[Elegiac]

There is footage from Sanders going back decades when he says he thinks a woman could be president. I guess behind closed doors he is just another agent of the patriarchy!

Are y'all actually capable of addressing the point without constructing ridiculous strawmen? Just curious.

[Deadite]

Are y'all actually capable of addressing the point without constructing ridiculous strawmen? Just curious.

Eh? Sanders has been saying a woman could be president for decades. That seems to be the whole point. Thus i would say he did not say one could not to warren so she did indeed tell a lie.

[Elegiac]

Eh? Sanders has been saying a woman could be president for decades. That seems to be the whole point. Thus i would say he did not say one could not to warren so she did indeed tell a lie.

I'm talking about this patriarchy nonsense.

Literally the only people who are inferring "Bernie saying women can't win = he's sexist" are Bernie Bros, because for some reason any admission that their candidate might have made an error would threaten to pull aside the curtain y'all have erected around him with this ridiculous purity testing.

Personally I find the idea that a politician and human never having said anything problematic in a decades long political career significantly more improbable, especially considering Warren's aforementioned pretty genuine irritation and Sanders' refusal to even tackle the subject. @Reeve has the right of it in terms of what likely happened. Neither are lying, but they took different things away from his statement. But again, that would mean a possible admission of error on Bernie's part and his supporters can't have that.

[Endus]

Eh? Sanders has been saying a woman could be president for decades. That seems to be the whole point. Thus i would say he did not say one could not to warren so she did indeed tell a lie.

There's a difference between "a woman could do the job" and "the public are willing and ready to vote for a woman". I think it's clear Sanders has a long history of the former, but that doesn't say anything about the latter, which I think is what he was saying in the comment Warren is talking about.

It's not actually a statement about the capabilities of women, it's a statement about misogyny in the electorate.

I think Bernie Sanders believes a woman could be President, but have a hard time being elected by an electorate that still harbors a lot of misogyny, and that there's no inherent conflict between the two statements.

I also think, if that's what he'd meant, he should've just fucking admitted to what he said and explained that context. The whole thing is a giant mess on both sides.

[Elegiac]

I also think, if that's what he'd meant, he should've just fucking admitted to what he said and explained that context. The whole thing is a giant mess on both sides.

I do find it kind of amusing that Bernie has adopted a similar tack to Trump in this regard - ignore the issue and let his rabid supporters push a particular interpretation loudly enough to drown out any criticism.

It's almost as if Bernie is a demagogue of some sort. :thinkstorm:

[Reeve]

There's a difference between "a woman could do the job" and "the public are willing and ready to vote for a woman". I think it's clear Sanders has a long history of the former, but that doesn't say anything about the latter, which I think is what he was saying in the comment Warren is talking about.

It's not actually a statement about the capabilities of women, it's a statement about misogyny in the electorate.

I think Bernie Sanders believes a woman could be President, but have a hard time being elected by an electorate that still harbors a lot of misogyny, and that there's no inherent conflict between the two statements.

I also think, if that's what he'd meant, he should've just fucking admitted to what he said and explained that context. The whole thing is a giant mess on both sides.

Yeah, that's basically my feeling as well.

This "There is footage from Sanders going back decades when he says he thinks a woman could be president. I guess behind closed doors he is just another agent of the patriarchy!" is irrelevant to whether or not Warren was lying, because I don't think that's what she was suggesting he said, and is very likely indeed not what he said.

But if you're already predisposed to dislike Warren for whatever reason, I guess you can just decide to assume she was lying.

[starlord]

I do find it kind of amusing that Bernie has adopted a similar tack to Trump in this regard - ignore the issue and let his rabid supporters push a particular interpretation loudly enough to drown out any criticism.

It's almost as if Bernie is a demagogue of some sort. :thinkstorm:

bernie seems to like using his followers to do the dirty work so he can maintain a veneer of "purity".

whaaa? my followers smear warren in much the same way they did hillary? well, its not my fault.

whaa, my followers publish an entire op ed smearing biden? how naughty of them! kids these days, just can't control them...