Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Edge-]

Let's be honest here. Even if Trump acknowledged that the injuries were more severe than originally thought, I'm quite sure that you would find something about it that would displease you.

There's plenty other things about Trump that displease me, of course. But this wouldn't be one of them, at least, because he would have acted like a reasonably decent human being rather than acting like an uncaring, callous asshole.

I get that you probably don't have a better rebuttal, but maybe we could at least acknowledge that Trump could have addressed the potential severity of the injuries without escalation.

[draynay]

Let's be honest here. Even if Trump acknowledged that the injuries were more severe than originally thought, I'm quite sure that you would find something about it that would displease you.

Your imaginary scenario implies Trump could do any part of his job correctly and that is too far-fetched for me.

Lets try and keep this thread centered on reality and not your imagination.

[I Push Buttons]

Cause attacking and killing their general isn't escalating anything right?????......



/facepalm........

After that general ordered/ok'd attacks that killed an American and ordered/ok'd the storming of a US embassy? Nope, no escalation on the part of the US whatsoever.

[Orange Joe]

After that general ordered/ok'd attacks that killed an American and ordered/ok'd the storming of a US embassy? Nope, no escalation on the part of the US whatsoever.

You have proof of this?

Cause if you do. I'm sure Trump would love to see it so he wouldn't have to go with the bullshit excuse of "imminent attack on 4 embassies."

[Elegiac]

After that general ordered/ok'd attacks that killed an American and ordered/ok'd the storming of a US embassy? Nope, no escalation on the part of the US whatsoever.

Because as we know one American mercenary is equal to one Iranian member of government. /s

Also, nobody gives a shit about the Embassy. It's the Green Zone in Baghdad, you can't swing a cat without hitting an IED or a group of extremists.

[I Push Buttons]

You have proof of this?

Cause if you do. I'm sure Trump would love to see it so he wouldn't have to go with the bullshit excuse of "imminent attack on 4 embassies."

The initial attack/escalation that killed an American was launched by Kata'ib Hezbollah. An Iran-backed militia (formerly) led by an Iraqi defector to Iran and member of Quds Force.

The US retaliated against the militia for the attack by striking several of their assets.

The militia then escalated once again by storming the US embassy. And this isn't a case of like "Oh the US just says it was them, but it wasn't really, it was just a mob!" or some shit, they literally took responsibility for the assault and openly stormed the embassy fully clad in their militia gear while waving their militia flags.

The US retaliated by killing Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis (the Quds Force guy I say formerly led the militia above) in the same strike as they fucking met.

Because as we know one American mercenary is equal to one Iranian member of government. /s

The contractor killed was essentially a civilian translator, a naturalized American given US citizenship after he and his wife were granted refugee status from Iraq. You should send his wife and kids a letter expressing just how worthless you think his life was, I am sure they would appreciate it, you disgusting person.

[Orange Joe]

-- no evidence backing up original claim --

I'm sorry you were saying?

[I Push Buttons]

I'm sorry you were saying?

Are you genuinely arguing that an officer of Quds Force wasn't following the orders of/directly answerable to the literal leader of Quds Force? Especially given the fact that they were literally meeting face to face.

[Thekri]

Because as we know one American mercenary is equal to one Iranian member of government. /s

Also, nobody gives a shit about the Embassy. It's the Green Zone in Baghdad, you can't swing a cat without hitting an IED or a group of extremists.

This is a very short term view on Sulemani, and I really don't understand this line of logic. If a member of another government straight up murders a US citizen, you don't reflect on the relative value of human life. You either tolerate a member of the Iranian government deliberately launching lethal attacks on US personnel or you don't.

This is a personal story of how I feel on this. When I was a young 2LT in 2009, I walked in the door of my first active Army unit. One of the first things you see in the company HQ of any unit is usually a wall on which pictures of that units KIAs are hung. It is a memorial wall to the Soldiers that unit has lost. One thing immediately jumped out, the names and pictures were all in groups of 4. Four killed on this date, four killed on some other date a month later, and so forth.

There were only 60 soldiers assigned to this unit (It was a Tank Company), and there were 16 names from a single deployment, all in clusters of 4. As a new LT, I was quite surprised by this, and I asked why we were losing 4 at a time. This is why. Sulemani killed those Soldiers, as clear as if he had shot them himself. Quds Force was saturating Iraq with EFPs, a type of ground implanted explosive that could cut straight through the armor of US vehicles and kill the entire crew. These were not crudely implemented explosives built by farmers, these are designed by engineers and built in factories, Iranian Factories. EFPs require a lot of precision to be effective, the explosion has to be uniform enough to compress, elongate, and propel the metal slug that does the killing.

This bastard killed hundreds of Americans. I don't actually fault him in a moral sense, it was his job, he was a Soldier doing his duty, but that duty was killing Americans. From what I have seen of this strike, we killed the right guy for the wrong reasons. I think Trump lost his temper and killed Sulemani because he was frustrated, rather then any sort of coherent policy. But we should have killed Sulemani in 2007.

[Orange Joe]

Are you genuinely arguing that an officer of Quds Force wasn't following the orders of/directly answerable to the literal leader of Quds Force? Especially given the fact that they were literally meeting face to face.

If there was evidence of such don't you think Trump would have paraded that fact all over the place? Instead of making up a bullshit excuse he couldn't prove.

[I Push Buttons]

If there was evidence of such don't you think Trump would have paraded that fact all over the place? Instead of making up a bullshit excuse he couldn't prove.

Nope because Trump is a literal retard and probably genuinely thought claiming there was an imminent threat he stopped would make him look like a hero with no questions asked and couldn't help himself.

If he just told the truth and said we killed him in retaliation for this bullshit and all the bullshit he has done for over a decade in Iraq (and later Syria and Yemen), this whole thing would have become a non-story almost instantly.

[Daelak]

The initial attack/escalation that killed an American was launched by Kata'ib Hezbollah. An Iran-backed militia (formerly) led by an Iraqi defector to Iran and member of Quds Force.

The US retaliated against the militia for the attack by striking several of their assets.

The militia then escalated once again by storming the US embassy. And this isn't a case of like "Oh the US just says it was them, but it wasn't really, it was just a mob!" or some shit, they literally took responsibility for the assault and openly stormed the embassy fully clad in their militia gear while waving their militia flags.

The US retaliated by killing Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis (the Quds Force guy I say formerly led the militia above) in the same strike as they fucking met.




The contractor killed was essentially a civilian translator, a naturalized American given US citizenship after he and his wife were granted refugee status from Iraq. You should send his wife and kids a letter expressing just how worthless you think his life was, I am sure they would appreciate it, you disgusting person.

Just like the hundreds of Iraqi contractors that were denied entry into the US after they were promised by the US government when they put their lives on the line for years?
Stop defending the short sighted and politically distracting actions of the Trump Administration.

[Orange Joe]

Nope because Trump is a literal retard and probably genuinely thought claiming there was an imminent threat he stopped would make him look like a hero with no questions asked and couldn't help himself.

If he just told the truth and said we killed him in retaliation for this bullshit and all the bullshit he has done for over a decade in Iraq (and later Syria and Yemen), this whole thing would have become a non-story almost instantly.

So your saying (with 0 evidence) that there is no one else that could have possible ok'ed the attacks?

[I Push Buttons]

Just like the hundreds of Iraqi contractors that were denied entry into the US after they were promised by the US government when they put their lives on the line for years?
Stop defending the short sighted and politically distracting actions of the Trump Administration.

Because Trump is a racist and turned his back on other Iraqis who aided the US military, that means I shouldn't care about an Iraqi-American who was murdered by Iran?

What?

[Thekri]

So your saying (with 0 evidence) that there is no one else that could have possible ok'ed the attacks?

The dude worked for Sulemani, and was in the same car when they both died. If one gave the ok they both did. And they both died together, so I don't get your point.

Trump is an idiot, that isn't news. There is no reason to defend Sulemani though, just be glad that a guy that has had it coming for decades finally got his just rewards. He got to be a martyr, we avenged several hundred (and possibly a few thousand) of our dead.

This doesn't change that it is normal to be extremely concerned that Trump is a kid that is poking an ant hill without any idea how it works, or what the consequences could be. I am just saying you don't need to defend that particular ant. He was an asshole.

[Elegiac]

The contractor killed was essentially a civilian translator, a naturalized American given US citizenship after he and his wife were granted refugee status from Iraq. You should send his wife and kids a letter expressing just how worthless you think his life was, I am sure they would appreciate it, you disgusting person.

Cool, can I also ask them if the lives all of the innocent Iraqis caught in the crossfire between the US and Iran make up for their loss?

Don't try to pretend there's any moral high ground to be had here.

[Orange Joe]

The dude worked for Sulemani, and was in the same car when they both died. If one gave the ok they both did. And they both died together, so I don't get your point.

Trump is an idiot, that isn't news. There is no reason to defend Sulemani though, just be glad that a guy that has had it coming for decades finally got his just rewards. He got to be a martyr, we avenged several hundred (and possibly a few thousand) of our dead.

This doesn't change that it is normal to be extremely concerned that Trump is a kid that is poking an ant hill without any idea how it works, or what the consequences could be. I am just saying you don't need to defend that particular ant. He was an asshole.

I'm not really trying to defend the person. He was making a claim without proof to justify Trump's escalation.

[Edge-]

@DocSavageFan

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...brain-injuries

Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) said Trump “minimized” the injuries the troops suffered after the Pentagon announced that dozens of U.S. troops sustained traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Trump had referred to the injuries as “headaches" and "not very serious" earlier in the week.

“In light of today's announcement from the defense department that 34 U.S. service members suffered traumatic brain injuries as a result of Iran's retaliatory strike and President Trump's remarks which minimized these troops’ injuries, the Veterans of Foreign Wars cannot stand idle on this matter,” VFW National Commander William “Doc” Schmitz said in a statement.

“TBI is a serious injury and one that cannot be taken lightly. TBI is known to cause depression, memory loss, severe headaches, dizziness and fatigue — all injuries that come with both short- and long-term effects. The VFW expects an apology from the president to our service men and women for his misguided remarks.”

I'm fine having the VFW in my corner on this debate.

[Daelak]

Because Trump is a racist and turned his back on other Iraqis who aided the US military, that means I shouldn't care about an Iraqi-American who was murdered by Iran?

What?

You shouldn't use his death as a means of defense for Trump to assassinate a nation's general. This wasn't some "presidential" act to show his love and resolve for the US military, but it's his administration's failing around because we are isolated due to him pulling us out of the JCPOA.

[Santti]

@DocSavageFan

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...brain-injuries

I'm fine having the VFW in my corner on this debate.

If Trump is going to address this in any way, it's going to be him throwing someone under the bus. Fat chance he will admit any kind of fault.