Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[jonnysensible]

True story, Dems made considerable gains with voters in:

• 2017
• 2018
• 2019

Without scraping the bottom of the barrel with Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson appearances.

isnt it better the the dipshit rogan might send apolitical people left rather than right? As sad as it is that this is even a thing. You read becca lewis - Alternative Influence: Broadcasting the Reactionary Right on YouTube btw???

[Gestopft]

That’s an exceptionally wordy way of phrasing “racists and other assorted bigots”.

Who exactly do you think the swing voters in this election are?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

It isn't? I'm pretty sure every single candidate running has policies about minority rights. And most of them have histories backing that up aside from Biden. Protecting minority rights is one of the core parts of the Democrat party.

I'm more doubtful then I was a few months ago. Even leftist sites and orgs are copying right wing talking points on trans issues, for example. For certain, we've lost the ability to actually discuss what we require in the noise, and that, for me, is more than enough to question if anyone really gives a shit about us.

[Milchshake]

Who exactly do you think the swing voters in this election are?

As someone who spent a few weeks canvassing in 2018. We flipped the WA8 district blue, it was a weird mix of rural and suburbs that was designed to support the GOP. We were targeting suburban women mostly. They were the most interested in economic issues and concerns over healthcare.

This is reflected in nation wide polls. The biggest shifts were among suburban women.

They also have a history of showing up at the polls. Whereas your average Joe Rogan addict is mostly apolitical and has little to no history of showing up at the polls.

Again, civil rights politics aside. This is a strategic plunder by Sanders campaign. Spending so much bandwidth on low probability voters.

[Fabray]

The last 24 hours caused REAL harm and trauma to marginalized people and yall really don't care, man. Yall don't give a shit about us so just stop pretending

This is insanity, this is an actual bizarro world. I barely post anything, and yet I just posted yesterday how ridiculous it was that everyone was bitching about Biden, that all of this nonsense is going to hand Trump an easy win, and then today it’s 10x worse in the other direction. You all sound completely unhinged.

[Wyrt]

I'm more doubtful then I was a few months ago. Even leftist sites and orgs are copying right wing talking points on trans issues, for example. For certain, we've lost the ability to actually discuss what we require in the noise, and that, for me, is more than enough to question if anyone really gives a shit about us.

So if they don't talk about it for 5 minuets it magically disappears and Democrats, whichever one gets the nomination, would then suddenly and inexplicably start working against minorities?

It wasn't even that long ago when people were talking about giving reparations for past crimes against minorities FFS.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

So if they don't talk about it for 5 minuets it magically disappears and Democrats, whichever one gets the nomination, would then suddenly and inexplicably start working against minorities?

It wasn't even that long ago when people were talking about giving reparations for past crimes against minorities FFS.

That's not what I said, and you know it. This isn't a "5 minute" thing, but rather a large reframing of the debate that completely removes our voices. It's been happening over the last year. Throw in the potential for policies that may actively harm some of us, and, yes, it's getting nerve wracking.

[Wyrt]

That's not what I said, and you know it. This isn't a "5 minute" thing, but rather a large reframing of the debate that completely removes our voices. It's been happening over the last year. Throw in the potential for policies that may actively harm some of us, and, yes, it's getting nerve wracking.

Policies like what?

[JohnBrown1917]

Yo communism guy what do you care about democracy lol you just larping or what??

Anarchism is the highest form of democracy.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Policies like what?

Medicare 4 All, for one, as I detailed in this thread. Got ignored, which is par for the course.

[Gestopft]

Again, civil rights politics aside. This is a strategic plunder by Sanders campaign. Spending so much bandwidth on low probability voters.

Now I think this is a reasonable, substantive criticism.

You have to expand the coalition to win. That means making peace with people that don't agree with you on something. What way are the swing voters that Biden could pick up going to disagree with you? Are Rust Belt voters he supposedly can win back going to be 'woke' on minority rights issues like we are?

[Skroe]

This is insanity, this is an actual bizarro world. I barely post anything, and yet I just posted yesterday how ridiculous it was that everyone was bitching about Biden, that all of this nonsense is going to hand Trump an easy win, and then today it’s 10x worse in the other direction. You all sound completely unhinged.

It's because, 3 years later, much to the surprise of some of us (legitimately) it turns out that the things some progressives here say about him they would have said about any Republican President. Many Democrats agree with most people who are against Trump in that he is a truly exceptional case and a danger to the republic, far beyond any "normal" Republican President. But some progressives, as evidenced by the Iran hill they died on, think "yes he's bad, but all Republican Presidents are bad".

If that's what a person accepts, then this doesn't become an any-body-but-Trump election anymore. It becomes a normal old policy election where the risk of losing is somewhat lower. This is a comfortable position for the progressive because their ideology is a supremely powerful motivating force. They're by their nature, ideological and not pragmatic, even though this moment calls for pragmatism.

The fact is, Democrats should be in a moment of uniting around anybody-but-Trump, but instead we have people pretending (and it's make-believe) that Obama and Biden were "right wing" or "conservative" and Elizabeth Warren somehow isn't a legitimate progressive. It's insane.

Folks have exposed themselves as I long feared they would: using Trump as an opportunity to advance something they wanted to do anyway. But Trump isn't an opportunity. He's a grave danger. He is an opportunity in the way a house fire burning down a house is an opportunity to build a new house. Some radical leftists love that idea, but most decent people find that horrific.

In retrospect, particularly with Bernie Sanders supporters, which have a deeply unhealthy relationship with their candidate akin to Trump's cult, this was always going to happen. They were always going to rationalize a way to deny their support for the Democratic nominee or more electable alternatives and turn this into a policy election. If Biden gets the nod, his entire strategy needs to be based around winning without them, because they can't be counted on for anything. People who aren't willing to compromise to save their burning House are not people you deal with. They're people you work around.

[Masark]

the things some progressives here say about him they would have said about any Republican President.

And they're factual things, which demonstrates that there should be no Republicans occupying any office in the country.

[Skroe]

Spending so much bandwidth on low probability voters.

This is the Sanderista special move right here. Its their version of the Hadoken. They won't compromise on a certain core ideology in order to win, so they base their entire strategy around growing among people who don't vote, rather than appealing to people who do.

As I said before, it's the Tinkerbell Electoral Strategy - clapping and hoping it comes to life by that.

[Gestopft]

But some progressives, as evidenced by the Iran hill they died on, think "yes he's bad, but all Republican Presidents are bad".

Most of the younger crowd don't have much memory of Republicans before George W. Bush.

When the Iraq War and the Great Recession are two of the biggest formative political events for a generation, I think it's pretty easy to understand why they would see Trump as "just another Republican." Not saying they are right, but the consequences of the ways in which Trump has fucked this country haven't yet come to fruition in the same way as the consequences of Bush's presidency have.

[Elegiac]

This is the Sanderista special move right here. Its their version of the Hadoken. They won't compromise on a certain core ideology in order to win, so they base their entire strategy around growing among people who don't vote, rather than appealing to people who do.

Again, fairly telling that you feel the need to use a term inspired by a democratically elected left wing government the US decided to overthrow because socialism is tantamount to being a Soviet puppet. Real proud moment there.

Also; exactly what sort of American vision are you selling by telling people that their rights are negotiable as long as the political goals that beltway 'experts' deem beneficial are achieved?

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the younger crowd don't have much memory of Republicans before George W. Bush.

When the Iraq War and the Great Recession are two of the biggest formative political events for a generation, I think it's pretty easy to understand why they would see Trump as "just another Republican." Not saying they are right, but the consequences of the ways in which Trump has fucked this country haven't yet come to fruition in the same was as the consequences of Bush's presidency have.

Oh, I remember Republicans before Bush.

I remember Republicans letting an epidemic persist because they thought HIV was justified punishment for the sin of being queer.

[Spectral]

The last 24 hours caused REAL harm and trauma to marginalized people and yall really don't care, man. Yall don't give a shit about us so just stop pretending

I stay entertained by these sort of histrionics.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

When the Iraq War and the Great Recession are two of the biggest formative political events for a generation, I think it's pretty easy to understand why they would see Trump as "just another Republican." Not saying they are right, but the consequences of the ways in which Trump has fucked this country haven't yet come to fruition in the same way as the consequences of Bush's presidency have.

I actually tried to have a conversation with a Trump fan on here over pollution issues involving Trump's EPA here in Illinois because he mentioned going to school in Chicago. It was like talking to a brick wall screaming "libtard" and culture war references at me.

A lot of people are going to be in for a rude awakening as this stuff further percolates into their lives and well being.

[Gestopft]

I actually tried to have a conversation with a Trump fan on here over pollution issues involving Trump's EPA here in Illinois because he mentioned going to school in Chicago. It was like talking to a brick wall screaming "libtard" and culture war references at me.

A lot of people are going to be in for a rude awakening as this stuff further percolates into their lives and well being.

I can only hope the rude awakening actually wakes them up.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I can only hope the rude awakening actually wakes them up.

It didn't for the previous generation, and, sadly, it's more likely to be minorities living near major polluters than white, middle class folks. I don't think they really care about the consequences -- particularly when it's not them.