Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[eschatological]

If the European model is where we end up that's pretty, well, bad. Wait lists are sometimes years long, and they actually pay for care. I don't see how our medical infrastructure survives without coverage. Surgeons would be out of business in months.

And what is the current situation? How is it better?

[Themius]

Nobody is pushing for it, but you go and have fun with your terf friends.

You lost a random match so now you think trans people dont deserve rights, how lovely.

I feel like they just watched Southpark

[GreenGoldSharpie]

And what is the current situation? How is it better?

In the US? Informed consent that cuts HRT down to the length of blood tests and doesn't require anything other than walking into a Planned Parenthood. Many blue states mandate coverage of trans medical issues, which is how I could afford GCS with a really good surgeon.

Europe has a real problem with DIY HRT, too. 18 months to even get seen for it in the UK, I believe.

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So you search internet and find some numbers to make Sweden look bad for trans people? That's just sad.

If you knew anything about it, it's that they evaluate you before you can get treatment. Long wait lists? Everyone has to wait to receive care in Sweden unless it's urgent. We use a triage system. I had to wait 5 months to get a tooth removed surgically. Meanwhile, my brother got treatment in an instant for his broken leg. That's triage.

You can get HRT in about a week here.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

So? We still use a triage system, if it's not urgent you'll have to wait.

So, I bet you also have a DIY HRT problem. I guess if you're okay with that good for you. I'm really not.

[Milchshake]

If the European model is where we end up that's pretty, well, bad. Wait lists are sometimes years long, and they actually pay for care. I don't see how our medical infrastructure survives without coverage. Surgeons would be out of business in months.

Another flaw in the European system. Despite a robust welfare and healthcare coverages. They're having this growing problem with far right parties trying to tear it all down again. This didnt really rise until say the complexion of their populations started changing.

Which proves that Bernie's theory that economic justice automatically solves racial justice all wrong.

All forms of inequality must be confronted constantly. Playing footsie with some repilling podcasters will just be another failed red/brown alliance.

[Milchshake]

This is the Sanderista special move right here. Its their version of the Hadoken. They won't compromise on a certain core ideology in order to win, so they base their entire strategy around growing among people who don't vote, rather than appealing to people who do.

As I said before, it's the Tinkerbell Electoral Strategy - clapping and hoping it comes to life by that.

Missouri has more delegates than Iowa and New Hampshire combined, but they're not one of the completely arbitrary early states. So it's easy for politically ignorant people pretend their guy has "won" the primary.

#Missouri Democratic Primary:
Biden 39%
Bloomberg 14%
Warren 9%
Klobuchar 8%
Sanders 7%
Buttigieg 6%
Yang 2%
Steyer 1%

The Bloomberg surge is real.
And for the Euroberners that doent realize that Kansas City is actually in Missouri. If KC wins the superbowl while seeing all those bloomberg ads. That positive association is gonna be an unreal amount of surge.
Of this is a football reference, not soccer.

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That's the centre-right trying to tear it down, you know, the liberals and conservatives who want less government in peoples lives.

Have you met Player Eleven and Player Twelve? I know they're from lowercase sweden. But man, you guys talk almost exactly alike.

That's because of the eugenics institute and laws surrounding it that was implemented by the leftwing party to keep sweden racially pure way back. They never fully dismantled it. It still exists under another name.

How does that work out in Swedens case where the left-wing have been the ones who have been the most anti-immigrant?

I'm seeing triple now.

[eschatological]

In the US? Informed consent that cuts HRT down to the length of blood tests and doesn't require anything other than walking into a Planned Parenthood. Many blue states mandate coverage of trans medical issues, which is how I could afford GCS with a really good surgeon.

Europe has a real problem with DIY HRT, too. 18 months to even get seen for it in the UK, I believe.

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You can get HRT in about a week here.

I mean.....you have to acknowledge, that HRT and GCS isn't medically necessary, right? Unless you want to argue you're not transgender unless you're transitioning/transitioned? That a transgender person can't exist without gender reassignment? That's what a socialized system does, sort things between medically necessary and urgent, vs. non-emergent. And yes, it means you, personally, are negatively affected, but it is a much better system for the common good, which is supposedly what us progressives are about. I'm a member of the 1%, but I'm all for the progressive agenda even though it negatively affects my financial bottom line. The compromise is that M4A lets trans people in Alabama get these things AT ALL, even if it's on a waiting list.

I can see that you're making an argument about federalism and states rights, and that your very blue state implements measures that lets you get HRT in a week with informed consent. I'd be curious to know if Illinois mandates coverage of HRT/GCS under some insurance scheme or not. Either way, a federal M4A doesn't preclude states having those protections in place, just like different states implement Medicare differently now (and in the dumb, red states, they implement it poorly). Even ObamaCare has been vastly different state to state because states have to choose how to implement it.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I mean.....you have to acknowledge, that HRT and GCS isn't medically necessary, right? Unless you want to argue you're not transgender unless you're transitioning/transitioned? That a transgender person can't exist without gender reassignment?

If you think treatment for depression or a knee replacement isn't medically necessary, but you're fundamentally misunderstanding my argument.

I can see that you're making an argument about federalism and states rights, and that your very blue state implements measures that lets you get HRT in a week with informed consent.

Nope. Illinois doesn't set the rules. Informed consent is largely a national policy practiced by the trans medical community and Planned Parenthood. I much prefer that to government regulation.

I'd be curious to know if Illinois mandates coverage of HRT/GCS under some insurance scheme or not.

Indeed they do. We just got medicaid coverage in on the act too.

Either way, a federal M4A doesn't preclude states having those protections in place, just like different states implement Medicare differently now (and in the dumb, red states, they implement it poorly). Even ObamaCare has been vastly different state to state because states have to choose how to implement it.

Which is one of those potential solutions I was hinting at. Undoing the progress blue states have made would hurt trans related care and doesn't help us one bit. I'd be more okay with M4A if the protection regime that, say, Illinois created would be left intact.

[CostinR]

Missouri has more delegates than Iowa and New Hampshire combined, but they're not one of the completely arbitrary early states. So it's easy for politically ignorant people pretend their guy has "won" the primary.

#Missouri Democratic Primary:
Biden 39%
Bloomberg 14%
Warren 9%
Klobuchar 8%
Sanders 7%
Buttigieg 6%
Yang 2%
Steyer 1%

The Bloomberg surge is real.

Remembering the threshold to get any delegates is 15% of vote. So Bloomberg is quite well within reach in that poll.

I can't wait for the contested convention.

[Masark]

I mean.....you have to acknowledge, that HRT and GCS isn't medically necessary, right?

By that logic, treatment for depression "isn't medically necessary".

[Benggaul]

lol wat. How is it my fault that Clinton and the HRC share the same initials?

It's your fault because you don't fucking pay attention or do some due diligence before speaking nonsense here. THIS is why nobody takes you seriously.

[eschatological]

By that logic, treatment for depression "isn't medically necessary".

I'd love someone from a country with socialized medicine to chime in on how long it takes to get a referral to a psychologist/psychiatrist.

Because that's a much simpler process than HRT/GCS, so I can see the wait time being shorter than, say, a non-emergent knee replacement. AFAIK, the long waiting times happen for non-emergent surgeries like a knee replacement, or gender reassignment.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Because that's a much simpler process than HRT/GCS, so I can see the wait time being shorter than, say, a non-emergent knee replacement. AFAIK, the long waiting times happen for non-emergent surgeries like a knee replacement, or gender reassignment.

GCS yes; HRT no. HRT is actually simple enough that the next big step is moving it into the realm of GPs. My doctor is essentially a GP who handles trans related care as well. It's not particularly difficult given it's prescribing and monitoring levels. Many often do it for post-menopausal women. This is the primary reason Planned Parenthood began prescribing.

There's little reason for Europe to have the wait times they do except they use the old style clinic model.

[Gestopft]

@GreenGoldSharpie

What about a M4A that left the issue of trans care to the states? Like the Illinois State Legislature could opt in to having their own pool specifically for that type of care?

[eschatological]

AFAIK, even HRT involves extensive blood tests and time. My friend got TRT, he got an initial consult with a urologist in early December, he'll start next week - 6 or 7 weeks from the initial consult. He had to get two weeks of straight blood tests, and then scheduling with a urology specialist took time, and so on, and so forth.

To me, from talking to him, it sounds serious enough to warrant close pre- and post- start-of-treatment monitoring.

[Endus]

I'd love someone from a country with socialized medicine to chime in on how long it takes to get a referral to a psychologist/psychiatrist.

Because that's a much simpler process than HRT/GCS, so I can see the wait time being shorter than, say, a non-emergent knee replacement. AFAIK, the long waiting times happen for non-emergent surgeries like a knee replacement, or gender reassignment.

When I was having issues in college and wanted to see someone about what I suspected was ADHD (and it was, long history but my attempts to deal weren't working any more with the college workload), I got in to see a psychologist in about 2 weeks from talking to my GP, and after about a month with them of weekly sessions, had a referral to a psychiatrist, where I started off monthly, about a month later. So about 2.5 months, all told. From there, it was about 6 months before we were testing medications, since my psychologist was a bit of a hack and my psychiatrist (rightly) wanted to start from scratch. It was a long process but definitely something I needed, and the behavioural therapy stuff in the earlier months helped a bit as we scaled up.

I honestly don't know how it compares to HRT/GCS. My cousin's kid is going through all that, and it was a bit of a push to get it started, but timeline-wise, I just don't know; we're "hug at Christmas/help move houses" close, not "know intimate details of your medical history" close.

That stuff is considered a medical necessity, as is other mental health care and therapy like for depression. There's ongoing damage being caused in a lot of cases with mental health issues that go untreated, unlike some levels of pain which can be handled with over-the-counter pharmaceuticals while awaiting permanent repair.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

AFAIK, even HRT involves extensive blood tests and time. My friend got TRT, he got an initial consult with a urologist in early December, he'll start next week - 6 or 7 weeks from the initial consult. He had to get two weeks of straight blood tests, and then scheduling with a urology specialist took time, and so on, and so forth.

To me, from talking to him, it sounds serious enough to warrant close pre- and post- start-of-treatment monitoring.

Why the hell would he need a urologist -- unless TRT is something different? The only thing monitored are levels (estradiol and testosterone) and liver and kidney functions. Go in every 3 months for the first year and then every 6 months after. This isn't anything a GP couldn't do.

Here's Planned Parenthood's treatment plan.

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@GreenGoldSharpie

What about a M4A that left the issue of trans care to the states? Like the Illinois State Legislature could opt in to having their own pool specifically for that type of care?

Like I said, I find that more acceptable, though we'd also have to address red states in some fashion. I think we should do the same with abortion too. Illinois is actually getting sued over mandating it as healthcare coverage right now, but it definitely was a worthwhile attempt.

[Gestopft]

Like I said, I find that more acceptable, though we'd also have to address red states in some fashion. I think we should do the same with abortion too. Illinois is actually getting sued over mandating it as healthcare coverage right now, but it definitely was a worthwhile attempt.

Yeah, when the choice seems to be "should we let the GoP screw trans people in red states, or should we risk the GoP screwing trans people in every state," there really isn't much hope for trans people in deep red areas.

[Benggaul]

Republican presidents have been bad all the way back to Reagan. Probably even before him to.

Well, before him there was Ford and Nixon. Ford was a fucking joke--literally, Chevy Chase would impersonate him on SNL and do prat falls--but Nixon actually wasn't terrible apart from the Watergate scandal. Hell, he created the EPA--that Trump has been steadily dismantling since he took office.

Further back you had the likes of Eisenhower (created NASA) and Teddy Roosevelt (labor laws and environmental protections), so while I would never consider myself a Republican, I can say that there have been some decent Republican presidents in the past. That has, of course, completely changed now.

Reagan was, as I've mentioned before, the original Trump. A C-list celebrity who jumped into politics for personal gain, had severe mental issues due to advanced age/Alzheimer's and deep-seeded bigotry. The AIDS epidemic happened under his watch and largely due to his administration turning it into a fucking joke. Nancy was the driving force behind that wreck.

I don't see a way forward where there are any decent Republican presidents anymore. Not with those that call themselves Republicans still anyway.

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"How dare your main policies being on worker rights and the economy! It should be about me me me me me and me only! Where is my free money to cover my gender-fluid procedures?!!!? Fuck you, if you don't give me and my trans-buddies all the money, I'm going to support the corporations instead!"

Seriously, chill down. If there are issues they'll be addressed.

Welp, you're going to be pretty disappointed regardless of whether or not Bernie gets elected, that's for sure. And I'm certain your downplaying of people's concerns as "histrionics" is going to play well too. Good luck with that.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Yeah, when the choice seems to be "should we let the GoP screw trans people in red states, or should we risk the GoP screwing trans people in every state," there really isn't much hope for trans people in deep red areas.

I don't think anyone actually involved in trans issues ever expected much different. We have made a lot of progress, though. Like I said early on, culture is everything in this fight, and it's something that the right has really already lost despite their claims. We've moved them into fighting side issues, which, while important, aren't aimed at the broader community. The Trump administration has fired its broadsides, and they were actually pretty feeble given most can be wiped out with a Democratic presidency. I'm impressed with how state-based institutions held up and were expanded. Hopefully we won't give them a chance to reload.

It's also why I broached the subject the way I did. Issues of race, class, and inequality are all extremely importantly, and when I said I'm on the left I mean that in the sense I'll happily fight on those issues as well. I prefer consensus building to infighting, personally.