Sanders Supporters Use Russian Facebook Tactics to Divide Dems

[Machismo]

Unfortunately that's not likely to happen since one side of this two party system relies on it so heavily to remain relevant.

Fortunately many states are adopting proportional delegation or whatever it's called in where candidates get delegates equal to their percent of the vote rather than winner takes all. It doesn't actually get rid of the EC but it effectively would. It's also not a permanent solution.

Well, proportional delegates doesn't really negate the EC, and can actually make it more unbalanced and skewed with the results. The solution that points more towards democracy, is this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

[Karrotlord]

Well, proportional delegates doesn't really negate the EC, and can actually make it more unbalanced and skewed with the results. The solution that points more towards democracy, is this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

Can you explain the problem with proportional delegates as I'm not sure I see it. And I'm sure what you linked would be better and simpler, it says in the article that it may not be legal for states to coordinate like that without congressional approval. That's where that one side I mentioned comes into play. Unless there's a dramatic shift in representation, it likely won't happen.

[Sorshen]

Once again, let's ditch the Electoral College and the two-party system. Until you get rid of the EC, you are only going to have two parties.

Of course, you are under no obligation to run as a Democrat, much less vote for one of the two main parties.

"You're under no obligation to take a chance, just die in anonymity"
Well, if there's something that the DNC and RNC totally agree upon, is that they're not gonna share the cake with a 3rd party, so they'll do everything in their power to maintain the status quo.

[Machismo]

Can you explain the problem with proportional delegates as I'm not sure I see it. And I'm sure what you linked would be better and simpler, it says in the article that it may not be legal for states to coordinate like that without congressional approval. That's where that one side I mentioned comes into play. Unless there's a dramatic shift in representation, it likely won't happen.

The problem with proportional delegates, is that it can skew the results even further, if not all states take part. Not only that, a lot of states only have three delegates, so it's simply not as accurate as a popular vote compact, or a simply popular vote.

For instance, if someone wins 51% of votes in a state with three delegates, do they get two, and the opponent gets one? Alrighty, makes sense. Now, how about a state with four delegates? Do they get three, and the loser gets 1? But, if only some of the states do this, and that state is normally for one or the other, then it can simply push more votes towards a candidate who got less votes. Say that California chose to do it, and Trump managed to get 20-ish more EC votes, even though he lost the popular vote.

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"You're under no obligation to take a chance, just die in anonymity"
Well, if there's something that the DNC and RNC totally agree upon, is that they're not gonna share the cake with a 3rd party, so they'll do everything in their power to maintain the status quo.

Yes, which is why I'm not a part of either party, and don't support the shitty system that is the Electoral College. Honestly, I don't see it ever changing, because it's one of the fundamental flaws of how this country was founded.

[Karrotlord]

The problem with proportional delegates, is that it can skew the results even further, if not all states take part. Not only that, a lot of states only have three delegates, so it's simply not as accurate as a popular vote compact, or a simply popular vote.

For instance, if someone wins 51% of votes in a state with three delegates, do they get two, and the opponent gets one? Alrighty, makes sense. Now, how about a state with four delegates? Do they get three, and the loser gets 1? But, if only some of the states do this, and that state is normally for one or the other, then it can simply push more votes towards a candidate who got less votes. Say that California chose to do it, and Trump managed to get 20-ish more EC votes, even though he lost the popular vote.

I do not contest your point.

[Wyrt]

So, Sanders is sexist, racist, anti-LGBT, and now a Russian troll. Got it. Keep going corporate media, I'm sure some of this slander will stick.

[eschatological]

Again, it's like Bernie supporters either A) don't read the article, or B) purposefully misconstrue the article to be outraged about it.

The article doesn't say Bernie is a Russian tool, nor that his supporters are. They're talking about how Bernie's supporters are using mass social media/mass posting techniques reminiscent of what Russian trolls and botnets did in 2016. And it's because mass posting has become easier and easier, not because these are sophisticated social media manipulators.

The behavior is similar, but the ease of entry and the people doing it are not. That's what the article is saying. That's it. I can't believe the pages and pages of people saying "HOW DARE YOU CALL BERNIE A RUSSIAN TOOL?!?"

[Karrotlord]

Again, it's like Bernie supporters either A) don't read the article, or B) purposefully misconstrue the article to be outraged about it.

The article doesn't say Bernie is a Russian tool, nor that his supporters are. They're talking about how Bernie's supporters are using mass social media/mass posting techniques reminiscent of what Russian trolls and botnets did in 2016. And it's because mass posting has become easier and easier, not because these are sophisticated social media manipulators.

The behavior is similar, but the ease of entry and the people doing it are not. That's what the article is saying. That's it. I can't believe the pages and pages of people saying "HOW DARE YOU CALL BERNIE A RUSSIAN TOOL?!?"

I'm afraid it was the OP that misconstrued it. He's one of the biggest Sanders opponents on this board, posting anything and everything that can be seen as remotely negative about the man.

[GreenJesus]

Again, it's like Bernie supporters either A) don't read the article, or B) purposefully misconstrue the article to be outraged about it.

The article doesn't say Bernie is a Russian tool, nor that his supporters are. They're talking about how Bernie's supporters are using mass social media/mass posting techniques reminiscent of what Russian trolls and botnets did in 2016. And it's because mass posting has become easier and easier, not because these are sophisticated social media manipulators.

The behavior is similar, but the ease of entry and the people doing it are not. That's what the article is saying. That's it. I can't believe the pages and pages of people saying "HOW DARE YOU CALL BERNIE A RUSSIAN TOOL?!?"

I don't get it... how is a bunch of people agreeing with each other on social media the same as Russian bots? I'm sure we can apply the same standard to Warren supporters dumping on "Bernie bros".

[eschatological]

I'm afraid it was the OP that misconstrued it. He's one of the biggest Sanders opponents on this board, posting anything and everything that can be seen as remotely negative about the man.

The OP didn't misconstrue it at all. The OP says:

"Interesting report today on how Sanders supporters on Facebook are using mass-posting techniques to drive fairly vicious anti-Warren, -Biden, and -Buttigieg memes, "reminiscent of Russian bots and trolls in 2016."

Sanders supporters have weaponized Facebook to spread angry memes about his Democratic rivals
Users are using mass-posting technologies to flood Facebook with attacks on Elizabeth Warren and others"

IE, "reminiscent of Russian bots and trolls," which means "like or analogous to".

I don't get it... how is a bunch of people agreeing with each other on social media the same as Russian bots? I'm sure we can apply the same standard to Warren supporters dumping on "Bernie bros".

It's more about mass posting and spamming across platforms to increase visibility. Like the article's example says, one dude was able to post the same anti-Warren meme thousands of times...not through hours and hours of work, and not because he was a Russian agent or something like that. But because mass posting has become infinitely easier to do than in 2016.

[Wyrt]

I don't get it... how is a bunch of people agreeing with each other on social media the same as Russian bots? I'm sure we can apply the same standard to Warren supporters dumping on "Bernie bros".

No, we can't, because this is about the establishment making hit pieces on Bernie and his supporters. The hit pieces really picked up right before the last debate with the whole "Bernie is sexist" bullshit. Which lead to Bernie supporters dumping on Warren.

[Sorshen]

The OP didn't misconstrue it at all. The OP says:

"Interesting report today on how Sanders supporters on Facebook are using mass-posting techniques to drive fairly vicious anti-Warren, -Biden, and -Buttigieg memes, "reminiscent of Russian bots and trolls in 2016."

Sanders supporters have weaponized Facebook to spread angry memes about his Democratic rivals
Users are using mass-posting technologies to flood Facebook with attacks on Elizabeth Warren and others"

IE, "reminiscent of Russian bots and trolls," which means "like or analogous to".


It's more about mass posting and spamming across platforms to increase visibility. Like the article's example says, one dude was able to post the same anti-Warren meme thousands of times...not through hours and hours of work, and not because he was a Russian agent or something like that. But because mass posting has become infinitely easier to do than in 2016.

Or, more like OP is gunning for Warren as usual and feels the need to post any hit piece or lame reach on the media...

[GreenJesus]

No, we can't, because this is about the establishment making hit pieces on Bernie and his supporters. The hit pieces really picked up right before the last debate with the whole "Bernie is sexist" bullshit. Which lead to Bernie supporters dumping on Warren.

Exactly. The establishment is basically trying to say that people upset about Warren's "bernie is sexist" bullshit are all just misogynist russian bots.

[xanzul]

Haha. Man. These theories are just getting delusional

Watch out! The big scary Russia monster is gonna get ya'!

I know this will result in an infraction but I don't care.

You are a fucking idiot.

Russia has always used division as a means of creating or worsening instability in other countries and we know this for a fact and it has been confirmed time and again and again again just in the past few years. Can we please stop pretending this stuff isn't happening? It is helping NO ONE but Russia.
[Infraction]

[Telogrus]

Slacker76 Uses Corporate Media Tactics To Divide Dems

[GreenJesus]

I know this will result in an infraction but I don't care.

You are a fucking idiot.

Russia has always used division as a means of creating or worsening instability in other countries and we know this for a fact and it has been confirmed time and again and again again just in the past few years. Can we please stop pretending this stuff isn't happening? It is helping NO ONE but Russia.

And pretending that every twitter user that doesnt agree with you is a russian bot is even more dangerous for democracy.

[xanzul]

Did the DNC establishment just pull the Russia card on Sanders?
Way to go, this will surely not backfire nor take credibility away from the investigation into Trump's campaign. As always, the liberals are glad to directly or indirectly give power to the fascists they claim to hate if that keeps the dirty leftists at bay.

You do understand the Russians didnt care who won the election right? The point was division not to get a win. That is what makes what is going on with Trump right now very concerning. Trump thinks he is getting help but who is getting it from doesn't want to help him or the United States. They want to help themselves.

History is literally going to repeat itself in this election.

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As long as its just talk and posting memes I would not be concerned. It will only help current president to get re-elected.

You might want to take a look at Cambridge Analytica. They got into a whole lot of trouble for doing just that. It is literally influencing elections. Or do you think discussion and memes (which are essentially political cartoons that used to be in the papers) don't have influence over people?

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Replacing a racist senile man with a slightly less racist senile man wont change much.

Trump is selling us out to who knows who and the scary part is he likely doesn't know who either. I will take anyone else over Trump.

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And pretending that every twitter user that doesnt agree with you is a russian bot is even more dangerous for democracy.

We have seen how this works on these very forums thanks to our own confirmed russian bots that have been linked to other sites as well. Stop pretending this isn't a thing. It is and it is insidious.

[Telogrus]

Russiagate really has fried the brains of some Democrats. In their minds, anyone who disagrees with the corporate media is a Russian asset, and anyone who denies being a Russian asset is just lying. You hate to see it.

[GreenJesus]

You do understand the Russians didnt care who won the election right? The point was division not to get a win. That is what makes what is going on with Trump right now very concerning. Trump thinks he is getting help but who is getting it from doesn't want to help him or the United States. They want to help themselves.

History is literally going to repeat itself in this election.

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You might want to take a look at Cambridge Analytica. They got into a whole lot of trouble for doing just that. It is literally influencing elections. Or do you think discussion and memes (which are essentially political cartoons that used to be in the papers) don't have influence over people?

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Trump is selling us out to who knows who and the scary part is he likely doesn't know who either. I will take anyone else over Trump.

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We have seen how this works on these very forums thanks to our own confirmed russian bots that have been linked to other sites as well. Stop pretending this isn't a thing. It is and it is insidious.

You are the one causing division by creating discord with "everyone is a russian bkt! You cant trust anyone! Unless something us said by blue check mark it is fake news! If a lot if people share something it's just russian bots!"

Ever heard of occams razor? Its most likely not some russia conspiracy, but people upset with the establishment for fucking bernie sanders in the ass for no reason.

[JohnBrown1917]

I know this will result in an infraction but I don't care.

You are a fucking idiot.

Russia has always used division as a means of creating or worsening instability in other countries and we know this for a fact and it has been confirmed time and again and again again just in the past few years. Can we please stop pretending this stuff isn't happening? It is helping NO ONE but Russia.

Yeah okay, you got me, everybody posting pro-sanders memes is Russian.
And we would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!