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  1. #221
    Im sorry. But even remotley saying any raid in vanilla was difficult is nonesense. They were not hard. The playerbase as a whole at that time was just bad.

    I can pretty much garantee this time around naxx will be full cleares in an hour.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Im sorry. But even remotley saying any raid in vanilla was difficult is nonesense. They were not hard. The playerbase as a whole at that time was just bad.

    I can pretty much garantee this time around naxx will be full cleares in an hour.
    And when that happens, there will be the same small section of the community who will simply shift the goal posts like they have since before launch and say "nonono, NO ONE ever said VANILLA was hard, you just wait for BC! it will kill guilds!"

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Most of my b.net friends play it now, and as one of the original players, you'd think I'd be drawn to it for ol'nostalgia's sake or because one of the many problems I'm dissatisfied with in live.

    Yet, I can't bear playing it, tried a number of times. It is worse in nearly every way to live. The only thing it has over live is community. Somehow despite the brilliance that was sharding and xrealm (something I use to seriously suggest back in the day ), live has lost togetherness. It's hard to explain.

    However, in every departement it is vastly superior to classic. Classes, races, system, art, functionality, the works.. all so much better. Live is far more engaging - the only regret i think is that you can't actually experience the entire expansion systems as you level through them. It would have been nice if Shadowlands gave you the systems that were in place during the expansion you lveelled. But that doesn't make practical sense as it'd be too confusing for players.
    Completely disagree but its okay if you feel that way, but most of us are really enjoying it, and in light of the massive failure of bfa's "story" which is a cruel joke at this point i wonder if this isn't just a troll post because you haven't listed much here.

    I could list all the reasons that everyone has listed many times as to why i enjoy the game alongside others but you must know the factors and if they aren't for you it wont matter, likewise the BFA bike got very old quickly for me, maybe if classic wasn't around i'd be more keen to peddle for upgrades.
    Dragonflight Nerfs vs fun again show a Blizzard that hasn't learnt a lesson, Actions speak louder than words afterall watch what they do and do not do.

  4. #224
    I play classic, and honestly I can somewhat agree with OP.
    The end game is not really appealing to me, I enjoyed the ride getting to 60 more than being 60.

    Decided to become a casual gamer for classic, taking my time and just mostly doing professions. It's getting a bit old but currently all the games I had on my radar are delayed lol.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc.
    but enough OTHER FANBOIs made threads like Classic will kill retail, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"
    thats what a forum is for to post the opinion people have no matter how much u dislike them....

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This is just a really sloppy attempt at discrediting what i said without providing a single counter argument. Your entire argument can be boiled down to "na, you are wrong". First off, your understanding of how the industry works is flatout wrong - a large portion of creative / art work is done on short, fixed term contracts, secondments, and a casual workforce working under casual contract law. Even huge companies such as Weta Digital and Weta Workshops have a very small full time permanent workforce.

    The problem is that the returns from something like a store mount are very easily measured - the item goes on the store, and the returns are clearly defined. Raiding however, is just one component of the game, and might be only part of the reason a player subscribes (the ROI). So although raid participation can be measured, the direct return on investment is much more difficult to gauge.

    No matter how much word salad you throw at the issue - WoW has a budget they must work within - and that budget is split up between various teams.
    If you think Blizzard will hire 2-3+ people just to create a store mount you are a lost cause. At this point there is no point arguing at all.

    Which is fine cuz your argument is idiotic.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    If you think Blizzard will hire 2-3+ people just to create a store mount you are a lost cause. At this point there is no point arguing at all.

    Which is fine cuz your argument is idiotic.
    That is called a strawman - thats what you just did. You couldnt argue against any of the points put forward, so you created your own. Nowhere did i say they hired 2-3+ people to create a store mount. Nowhere did i say they hired individuals specifically to create store mounts. See, thats the problem with a strawman - its so easily disproved because the text is all still right there for everyone to see.

    I always laugh when someones argument is so void of any credibility or substance, they simply say "im not arguing with you, its not worth it" while completely ignoring all the points raised. There is still time for you though, we can pretend this pathetic little strawman never happened, and you can simply have another go at discrediting the points raised.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    but enough OTHER FANBOIs made threads like Classic will kill retail, etc.


    thats what a forum is for to post the opinion people have no matter how much u dislike them....
    Unfortunately, although much of the classic community is open to discussion and friendly debate, there is a large portion that simply want an echo chamber - constantly confirming that classic is amazing, and there is nothing at all negative about it.

    I also find it amusing that some of them seem to think anyone who says anything negative about classic is a retail player, when by far the largest level of negativity comes from those who tried classic and hated it, tried it and simply burned out due to boredom, or, continue to play, but are frustrated by the endless flaws the game has.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    That is called a strawman - thats what you just did. You couldnt argue against any of the points put forward, so you created your own. Nowhere did i say they hired 2-3+ people to create a store mount. Nowhere did i say they hired individuals specifically to create store mounts. See, thats the problem with a strawman - its so easily disproved because the text is all still right there for everyone to see.

    I always laugh when someones argument is so void of any credibility or substance, they simply say "im not arguing with you, its not worth it" while completely ignoring all the points raised. There is still time for you though, we can pretend this pathetic little strawman never happened, and you can simply have another go at discrediting the points raised.
    Then keep laughing boy.

    I told ya already: no company wastes money on employees who don't do any actual job for them.

    Then you told me "but brruuuuh artists are contracted". Which is not a fucking argument in itself.
    You literally implied blizz hired artists simply to create store mounts which is beyond retarded as fuck.

    Your base claim of "creating store mounts take budget away from X" is also retarded as fuck, which I pointed out.
    There is literally zero correlation between the budget for a cosmetic store item and any actual gameplay developement.
    Not a single developer will be told "okay make one less NPC model cuz we need money for a store mount".

    You raised not a single fuckin point in your entire post. All you did was make a bullshit police analogy that accounts for literally nothing because your lack of knowledge in finances can only produce bullshit posts.

    I dont have to disprove shit since you cant prove literally anything in the first place. Unless ofc you work at Blizzard, which would mean you are fuckin fired thank god.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I’m presuming you got banned for that ridiculous statement. Lol

    Vanilla naxx isn’t comparable to wotlk easy mode 4 different raid sizes naxx

    To clear naxx in wotlk, you had to be logged in and at least afk in the entrance. It was so easy they actually had achievements for (no one dying)

    Compare to vanilla naxx which is the cream of the crop. A real difficulty unless wotlk. And to get there, you have to earn it. You can’t just show up patch day, you have to climb that mountain to get to naxx

    Sure, it’s elitist but it’s a lot better of a system
    That is true. Vanilla naxx was much easier than wotlk naxx. It is just players were terrible and playing on a potato with a phone wire.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    But they are balanced. If you look at tank scores at Mythic+10 and below they all score the same. It's similar for normal raids (and even heroic raids to an extent)

    At higher difficulty is where you start seeing the imbalance. But should they really tune the classes to the content that the least ammount of players run? Less than 1,000 guilds (around 20,000 players) have killed Mythic Azshara. We don't know the exact number of active players, but considering a (really low) player base of 2M then only 1% of the players have killed her. You don't tune a game around that 1%
    They should, they really should. For although the 99% won't ever see it so, they will follow the lead of the 1%, the 10%-50% would start prioritising the good versions of the top dps specs.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Then keep laughing boy.

    I told ya already: no company wastes money on employees who don't do any actual job for them.

    Then you told me "but brruuuuh artists are contracted". Which is not a fucking argument in itself.
    You literally implied blizz hired artists simply to create store mounts which is beyond retarded as fuck.

    Your base claim of "creating store mounts take budget away from X" is also retarded as fuck, which I pointed out.
    There is literally zero correlation between the budget for a cosmetic store item and any actual gameplay developement.
    Not a single developer will be told "okay make one less NPC model cuz we need money for a store mount".

    You raised not a single fuckin point in your entire post. All you did was make a bullshit police analogy that accounts for literally nothing because your lack of knowledge in finances can only produce bullshit posts.

    I dont have to disprove shit since you cant prove literally anything in the first place. Unless ofc you work at Blizzard, which would mean you are fuckin fired thank god.
    You sound like a person who never had a job.
    If there are 10 people working on new raid gear design and all of a sudden 3 of them are asked to design a store mount instead, it means that only 7 people are now doing raid gear design. That's 30% reduction in man hours + depending on who they take off (experienced vs inexperienced) also possibly extra drop in quality of said raid gear.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Most of my b.net friends play it now, and as one of the original players, you'd think I'd be drawn to it for ol'nostalgia's sake or because one of the many problems I'm dissatisfied with in live.

    Yet, I can't bear playing it, tried a number of times. It is worse in nearly every way to live. The only thing it has over live is community. Somehow despite the brilliance that was sharding and xrealm (something I use to seriously suggest back in the day ), live has lost togetherness. It's hard to explain.

    However, in every departement it is vastly superior to classic. Classes, races, system, art, functionality, the works.. all so much better. Live is far more engaging - the only regret i think is that you can't actually experience the entire expansion systems as you level through them. It would have been nice if Shadowlands gave you the systems that were in place during the expansion you lveelled. But that doesn't make practical sense as it'd be too confusing for players.
    I love it a thousand times over live. I never played during vanilla, but the game is better in every single way for me. It feels like an RPG. Live feels like a bot.
    "Do you think man will ever walk on the sun? -Ali G

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Fancydress View Post
    You sound like a person who never had a job.
    If there are 10 people working on new raid gear design and all of a sudden 3 of them are asked to design a store mount instead, it means that only 7 people are now doing raid gear design. That's 30% reduction in man hours + depending on who they take off (experienced vs inexperienced) also possibly extra drop in quality of said raid gear.
    I'm pretty fuckin sure they have this thing called time management which makes sure they don't éven have to do Both at the same time.

    Your whole bullshit falls apart when you realize they probably dont design everything on the same week and then sit on their asses for half a year.

    Think about that instead.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Ulduar top 3, but it can’t compare to the vanilla naxx experience

    Wotlk was the beginning of the “one size for everybody” raid structure. 10 man, 25 man normal and heroic etc.

    Vanilla naxx was not only a better raid imo, but it only had the one difficulty... you were peak of the mountain top
    Nah, vanilla Naxx had a lot of re-used assets (I mean, nothing there feels "unique", besides living weapons). Also, some of the boss fights were kinda bullshit (hello, 4 horseman, 8 tank warriors with six pieces of tier 3 set). Ulduar has a more unique feeling, gives a way more epic mood, hard modes were unique and interesting and some of the fights were extremely innovative and original. Oh, and a secret boss available only to the best of the best raiders. So yeah, Ulduar was the top raid design.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    I'm pretty fuckin sure they have this thing called time management which makes sure they don't éven have to do Both at the same time.

    Your whole bullshit falls apart when you realize they probably dont design everything on the same week and then sit on their asses for half a year.

    Think about that instead.
    I don't understand how you're not getting it. If they have limited resources (in this case design man hours) and move those from A (raid) to B (store mounts), then project A suffers from being under-resourced. It is Economics 101.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Fancydress View Post
    I don't understand how you're not getting it. If they have limited resources (in this case design man hours) and move those from A (raid) to B (store mounts), then project A suffers from being under-resourced. It is Economics 101.
    Again, for the less intelligent, for that to happen they would need to do both things at the same time.
    It's not like any artist will be told "ohh Timmy you worked on a boss room, you cant do a store mount now sorry". Dont be dumdum.

    Like, designing a raid and in the middle of that tell artists to fuck off and make a mount.

    If those things do not happen at the same time (which they dont btw, again, for the less abled) there is zero correlation between the two.

    Also, I assume by "designing" a raid you mean the artsy stuff, cuz there is even less than zero chance the actual encounter design team has anything common with artists who make mounts.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post

    Also, I assume by "designing" a raid you mean the artsy stuff, cuz there is even less than zero chance the actual encounter design team has anything common with artists who make mounts.
    Yet another strawman argument from you - there is no award for most strawmans in one thread, so stop aiming for the top. Where did ANYONE say that a raid encounter designer would be designing a store mount? Just stop, this is getting really awkward to watch now.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post

    Like, designing a raid and in the middle of that tell artists to fuck off and make a mount.
    Once again. This proves that you've never worked in a corporate environment. That's exactly how it happens all the time.
    You come into the office one morning are told: "Sorry, Billy, do a raid handover with John, he'll finish it and you're on store mount duty for the next 3 months or so". People swap projects all the time. Sometimes week to week.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Fancydress View Post
    Once again. This proves that you've never worked in a corporate environment. That's exactly how it happens all the time.
    You come into the office one morning are told: "Sorry, Billy, do a raid handover with John, he'll finish it and you're on store mount duty for the next 3 months or so". People swap projects all the time. Sometimes week to week.
    Nah fam.

    3D artist might, cuz their work is technical but those who actually design the concept of anything won't be kicked out. Sorry to disappoint your bubble. You can't replace creative vision mid-job. Blizzard doesn't do that. If you paid attention to anything thats ever put in the game you'd know that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Yet another strawman argument from you - there is no award for most strawmans in one thread, so stop aiming for the top. Where did ANYONE say that a raid encounter designer would be designing a store mount? Just stop, this is getting really awkward to watch now.
    Intelligent post. Is it not a school night? Why are you here?

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Nah fam.

    3D artist might, cuz their work is technical but those who actually design the concept of anything won't be kicked out. Sorry to disappoint your bubble. You can't replace creative vision mid-job. Blizzard doesn't do that. If you paid attention to anything thats ever put in the game you'd know that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Intelligent post. Is it not a school night? Why are you here?
    Are you for real? Look at Warcraft 3 Reforged. Their original "creative vision" was to redo the graphics and story to be more WoW like. Their current/release "creative vision" is to just replace the models/textures. This example is from today. Today. There are thousands examples like that from the last 20 years of their history.

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