WarCraft III Megathread

[Craaazyyy]

The story of Legion was fantastic. The story of BfA was absolute fucking trash. Golden was hired some time before BfA was released. She wrote the garbage that was Before the Storm. Her hands are pretty fucking dirty.

both stories were garbage

Warcraft lore took a nosedive long ago, in TBC actually, Arthas story in Wrath managed to revive it, but after that it has been going downhill.. While making a story about Deathwing made sense they still butchered him.. and well pretty much nothing after Cata even makes sense

[TheRevenantHero]

Those cinematics were pretty damned good considering what she was given.




Well that's...bias, pure and simple. the story of legion got a pass because the expansion itself was good but god the story was horrendous

How is it biased? There is absolutely nothing redeeming about the story of BfA. Legion did have some bad parts but the overall story was pretty damned good.

[Houle]

Lol @ the christie golden defense crew. It has nothing to do with sexism (at least for my part), its just that shes constantly pushing her favourite characters (Jaina+Anduin, much like Danuser is pushing Sylvanas), while at the same time pursuing an agenda which ruins other characters that arent her favourite (looking at Rastakhan, an actually interesting characte bc of his flaws, who people have been waiting for for years, and he dies to make way for his perfect daughter). And Warcrimes+BtS were just objectively bad books. Not as bad as Knaak, but still bad (granted, that wasn't fully her fault, Blizz told her how the overarching stories in the books have to go).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

both stories were garbage

Warcraft lore took a nosedive long ago, in TBC actually, Arthas story in Wrath managed to revive it, but after that it has been going downhill.. While making a story about Deathwing made sense they still butchered him.. and well pretty much nothing after Cata even makes sense

It wasn't downhill back then. The story presentations in Vanilla and BC were bad. Its only gotten better back then. I didn't mean to make a discussion about WoW...sooo..... yeah bck to WCIII

Lol @the christie golden defense crew. It has nothing to do with sexism (at least for my part), its just that shes constantly pushing her favourite characters (Jaina+Anduin, much like Danuser is pushing Sylvanas), while at the same time pursuing an agenda which ruins other characters that arent her favourite (looking at Rastakhan, an actually interesting characte bc of his flaws, who people have been waiting for for years, and he dies to make way for his perfect daughter). And Warcrimes+BtS were just objectively bad books. Not as bad as Knaak, but still bad (granted, that wasn't fully her fault, Blizz told her how the overarching stories in the books have to go).

Oh no the so annoying Anduin. @_@ give me a break. having a flaw doesn't automatically make them interesting.

[Houle]

It wasn't downhill back then. The story presentations in Vanilla and BC were bad. Its only gotten better back then. I didn't mean to make a discussion about WoW...sooo..... yeah bck to WCIII




Oh no the so annoying Anduin. @_@ give me a break. having a flaw doesn't automatically make them interesting.

did i say he was annoying? No, i just said he is one of her favourites, which is a fact. She even admits it. And flawed characters like Rastakhan are wayyyy more interesting than always perfect characters like Talanji.

[RoKPaNda]

My biggest complaint is the lack of any stats and ranking system. Campaign plays fine for me. Multiplayer, which I bought it for, is a bit of a mess at the moment though.

both stories were garbage

Warcraft lore took a nosedive long ago, in TBC actually, Arthas story in Wrath managed to revive it, but after that it has been going downhill.. While making a story about Deathwing made sense they still butchered him.. and well pretty much nothing after Cata even makes sense

I guess it's subjective because for me the Arthas story was some of the worst trash that Blizzard ever came up with. In WarCraft 3 he was just a simpleton pawn with a strong back and a weak mind that Ner'zhul could use to do his bidding and would make a fitting body. Then along comes Wrath and suddenly Arthas the simpleton easily manipulated prince has developed the power to kill Ner'zhul with his mind. Off screen mind you. The mastermind behind WarCraft 3 and largely responsible for the state that the world is in? Dead off screen to the hired help. Then Arthas took credit for all that Ner'zhul had accomplished before succumbing to the players in a heaping sobbing puddle of daddy issues.

Wrath was where they started to butcher the dragon lore as well. Prior to that you couldn't kill an aspect because it would be catastrophic. Blue dragon wants to take away magic from the mortal races though so clearly he's "gone crazy" and we need to go kill him ASAP with no real consequences.

[KrazyK923]

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...380521473?s=19

Yes, she absolutely does have her dirty hands in the story.

...which is what I've been saying. She wrote dialogue for a cutscene whose outcome and plot was decided.

And even in that one tweet you link to try to...I donno...prove my point for me...it says she worked with Terran Gregory and another person coordinating the script with them.

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did i say he was annoying? No, i just said he is one of her favourites, which is a fact. She even admits it. And flawed characters like Rastakhan are wayyyy more interesting than always perfect characters like Talanji.

I love that you guys attack her for Anduin but then pretend like she had no role in the characters that you DO seem to like.

Its almost like scapegoating the bad stuff and not giving her credit for the good stuff is completely fucking disingenuous.

Also I love all these claims of objectivity about a narrative.

I don't like Sylvanas and think she's horrendously written, as is well known, but I don't pretend its an objective opinion. Seeing people wanting to just hate Christie Golden for reasons that are surely, super duper surely, not related at all to her being a woman () by trying to just claim objectivity about an opinion over a narrative is really funny.

"She constantly pushes her favorite characters" who the fuck cares? She doesn't decide what characters show up in what expansions. She doesn't decide where the expansions are going, what characters appear, and what happens to them. She's not even a Warcraft developer. Literally the one and only time we've ever heard that Christie Golden got her way with deciding the story was way back in The Shattering when she was the one that got Anduin in the book. And that was in 2010, get the fuck over it already.

This shit is getting close to being straight out of braincels. And driving the thread completely off topic by your 4chanesque whining about a single developer.

[Houle]

...which is what I've been saying. She wrote dialogue for a cutscene whose outcome and plot was decided.

And even in that one tweet you link to try to...I donno...prove my point for me...it says she worked with Terran Gregory and another person coordinating the script with them.

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I love that you guys attack her for Anduin but then pretend like she had no role in the characters that you DO seem to like.

Its almost like scapegoating the bad stuff and not giving her credit for the good stuff is completely fucking disingenuous.

Also I love all these claims of objectivity about a narrative.

I don't like Sylvanas and think she's horrendously written, as is well known, but I don't pretend its an objective opinion.

The characters i really liked, mostly existed before she even was at Blizzard. Ner'zhul, WC3 Illidan, Kael'thas, Cata Garrosh.
I said Rastakhan was interesting and had potential, but that was quickly ruined, so why should i give her credit for him when she ruined him all the same?
And theres a difference between disliking a character like Sylvanas (who i also dislike btw) and a simply badly-written book. If you read some good fantasy books in your life, you know hers are just not good. You can still like it ofc, but that doesnt make the character development (or lack thereof), the dialogue or the pacing better. It just means you like it nonetheless.

[CostinR]

Yes, and the original story is oh so amazing and award winning prize levels of writing...this may pop your little bubble, but warcraft writing was NEVER great. If anything, it has gotten better objectively. I mean you can say I'm wrong if you consider it somehow better than today's writing that Thrall being woken up by a strange human who can turn into a bird and saying "okay, I'll do what you say cause the spirits say to trust you."

Warcraft 3's bad writiting created some of the most memorable characters in the history of gaming: Arthas, Illidan,Thrall, Grom, Sylvanas etc. Characters under whose shadow World of Warcraft has never escaped or really been able to match.

So on what terms is it objectively better? Warcraft 3 had a far more memorable storyline with a vastly superior cast of characters that people still look back fondly to this day and had a significant higher emotional impact.

I won't deny WoW had it's moments and characters: Onyxia, Nefarian, the Defias Brotherhood Plotline, Ragnaros, Gul'Dan, Garrosh and a few others but it doesn't come anywhere. For me the most telling moment was when a fan movie of Tales of the Past III was able to handle the epic clash between the Lich King and Ashbringer in a vastly superior way to Wrath of the Lich King. Where Rexxas and Saurfang were handled with far more respect and care for what their characters were then....what Blizzard eventually did with them.

[Dziubla]

Its almost like scapegoating the bad stuff and not giving her credit for the good stuff is completely fucking disingenuous.

Also I love all these claims of objectivity about a narrative.

I don't like Sylvanas and think she's horrendously written, as is well known, but I don't pretend its an objective opinion. Seeing people wanting to just hate Christie Golden for reasons that are surely, super duper surely, not related at all to her being a woman () by trying to just claim objectivity about an opinion over a narrative is really funny.

Or maybe you're the biased one, who sees sexism everywhere, and can't handle criticism towards women, at all. You're like one of those people who call everyone who hated Captain Marvel a misogynist, despite the fact that those same people loved Wonder Woman, so I don't think they have any "problems" with strong women. You're completely ignoring the fact that those same people who criticize Golden, also criticize Danuser. Is he a woman? If so, I'm unaware of that fact. You're like one of those people who preach equality on paper, and yet, whenever someone DARES to criticize a woman, you're the first in line to defend her, saying "But, but, but, she's a woman! You can't say that to her!". So, what is it? Equality, or preferential treatment? You can't have both.

Plenty of people who criticize her right now, me included, loved her early work, Lord of the Clans, Rise of the Horde, Arthas, but after that it went mostly downhill. While Tides of War were still moooore or less okayish, but Shattering, Twilight of the Aspects, War Crimes, and, especially, Before the Storm were just...from not good, to straight up garbage. I don't know how you and your tribe can still play the sexism card, when people tell you outright they don't hate the person, or all the work a person did, just certain aspects/parts of it, and yet, despite that, it seems not to register in your brain, and you still manage to screech something about "hurr durr you just hate women".

Ehh, and I just wasted another 3 minutes on a pointless discussion Bad me.

P.S. You hate Sylvanas? Misogynistic pig, why do you hate all women? - that's how you sound with your "You don't like Golden? You must hate women".

[TheRevenantHero]

...which is what I've been saying. She wrote dialogue for a cutscene whose outcome and plot was decided.

And even in that one tweet you link to try to...I donno...prove my point for me...it says she worked with Terran Gregory and another person coordinating the script with them.

- - - Updated - - -



I love that you guys attack her for Anduin but then pretend like she had no role in the characters that you DO seem to like.

Its almost like scapegoating the bad stuff and not giving her credit for the good stuff is completely fucking disingenuous.

Also I love all these claims of objectivity about a narrative.

I don't like Sylvanas and think she's horrendously written, as is well known, but I don't pretend its an objective opinion. Seeing people wanting to just hate Christie Golden for reasons that are surely, super duper surely, not related at all to her being a woman () by trying to just claim objectivity about an opinion over a narrative is really funny.

"She constantly pushes her favorite characters" who the fuck cares? She doesn't decide what characters show up in what expansions. She doesn't decide where the expansions are going, what characters appear, and what happens to them. She's not even a Warcraft developer. Literally the one and only time we've ever heard that Christie Golden got her way with deciding the story was way back in The Shattering when she was the one that got Anduin in the book. And that was in 2010, get the fuck over it already.

This shit is getting close to being straight out of braincels. And driving the thread completely off topic by your 4chanesque whining about a single developer.

Her being a woman has absolutely nothing to do with my hatred for her. It has everything to do with her being a shit writer and a MASSIVE Alliance fangirl. But I love when people like you try to say we only hate her because she's a woman to try and cover up the fact that's she's biased as fuck towards Alliance.

[Houle]

Or maybe you're the biased one, who sees sexism everywhere, and can't handle criticism towards women, at all. You're like one of those people who call everyone who hated Captain Marvel a misogynist, despite the fact that those same people loved Wonder Woman, so I don't think they have any "problems" with strong women. You're completely ignoring the fact that those same people who criticize Golden, also criticize Danuser. Is he a woman? If so, I'm unaware of that fact. You're like one of those people who preach equality on paper, and yet, whenever someone DARES to criticize a woman, you're the first in line to defend her, saying "But, but, but, she's a woman! You can't say that to her!". So, what is it? Equality, or preferential treatment? You can't have both.

Plenty of people who criticize her right now, me included, loved her early work, Lord of the Clans, Rise of the Horde, Arthas, but after that it went mostly downhill. While Tides of War were still moooore or less okayish, but Shattering, Twilight of the Aspects, War Crimes, and, especially, Before the Storm were just...from not good, to straight up garbage. I don't know how you and your tribe can still play the sexism card, when people tell you outright they don't hate the person, or all the work a person did, just certain aspects/parts of it, and yet, despite that, it seems not to register in your brain, and you still manage to screech something about "hurr durr you just hate women".

Ehh, and I just wasted another 3 minutes on a pointless discussion Bad me.

P.S. You hate Sylvanas? Misogynistic pig, why do you hate all women? - that's how you sound with your "You don't like Golden? You must hate women".

You pig, did you just assume Danusers gender? How dare you, its 2020. For all we know, Danuser sexually identifies as a video game corpse (Nathanos Cringecaller), but maybe he sees himself as a woman too.

Jokes aside, i find it laughable when people accuse you of being a sexist for not liking Golden, but when you voice your even greater disdain for Danuser, suddenly no one screams "sexist" anymore. But ofc, its easy to defend her shitty writing when u can just say everyone who doesnt like her is a misogynistic pig. Danuser cant be defended like that.

[Stormwolf64]

Lol @ the christie golden defense crew. It has nothing to do with sexism (at least for my part), its just that shes constantly pushing her favourite characters (Jaina+Anduin, much like Danuser is pushing Sylvanas), while at the same time pursuing an agenda which ruins other characters that arent her favourite (looking at Rastakhan, an actually interesting characte bc of his flaws, who people have been waiting for for years, and he dies to make way for his perfect daughter). And Warcrimes+BtS were just objectively bad books. Not as bad as Knaak, but still bad (granted, that wasn't fully her fault, Blizz told her how the overarching stories in the books have to go).

People who use words such as "sexism" are just worthless trash who'll use any cards to shut you up, and it doesnt even matter if its proper critique or senseless bashing. Pay them no mind and the sewer rats that they are will scurry off before long.

Christie golden is a terrible writer, fact.

[Adamas102]

Lol @ the christie golden defense crew. It has nothing to do with sexism (at least for my part), its just that shes constantly pushing her favourite characters (Jaina+Anduin, much like Danuser is pushing Sylvanas), while at the same time pursuing an agenda which ruins other characters that arent her favourite (looking at Rastakhan, an actually interesting characte bc of his flaws, who people have been waiting for for years, and he dies to make way for his perfect daughter). And Warcrimes+BtS were just objectively bad books. Not as bad as Knaak, but still bad (granted, that wasn't fully her fault, Blizz told her how the overarching stories in the books have to go).

Honestly though, what was it you were really scared would happen? As I understood it, the whole point of the story update was simply to bring things in line with WoW continuity and expand a bit on side characters that later became main characters. The story was still going to be primarily about Arthas, Illidan, and Thrall. The key pieces would not have changed, but perhaps we could have gotten some additional missions for side characters. How would that have detracted from the main plot that actually drives the story of WC3? I still firmly believe that this was a missed opportunity not to change but rather to build on a pivotal game in this franchise. That being said, I'm also pretty sure the real reason that the changes were cut was money rather than whining from a small group of opinionated players.

[Varodoc]

Honestly though, what was it you were really scared would happen? As I understood it, the whole point of the story update was simply to bring things in line with WoW continuity and expand a bit on side characters that later became main characters. The story was still going to be primarily about Arthas, Illidan, and Thrall. The key pieces would not have changed, but perhaps we could have gotten some additional missions for side characters. How would that have detracted from the main plot that actually drives the story of WC3? I still firmly believe that this was a missed opportunity not to change but rather to build on a pivotal game in this franchise. That being said, I'm also pretty sure the real reason that the changes were cut was money rather than whining from a small group of opinionated players.

Yeah, it certainly wasn't the whining, since the vast majority of people were hyped for the changes to maps and additions to the storyline. Obviously not the purists, because don't you dare give one additional mission to Jaina, or the whole feel of WC3 is forever ruined!

[matrix123mko]

Wowhead releasing all the new HD cinematics on youtube and most of the comments are..

"Why are these exactly the same as the original, Blizzard sucked, they lied, so disappointing"

Nowhere did they state they would be remaking the cinematics, I have no idea why people are assuming this. I honestly do think people WANT to be angry at Blizzard 24/7 they just make up shit...

They said they will not when they announced Reforged. Some people tried to convince Blizzard to do otherwise but as we can see, many of them believed it is so easy.

[Super Dickmann]

According to datamining, the green color and chaplains are used for Daelin's forces in the Rexxar campaign, and the mission where said humans appear was already kind of inconsistent as it states the enemy are Kul Tiras marines, yet a Footman claims to recognize the Orcs as stealing their ships from the mainland in ambient dialog.

Yeah, there's some incongruities there that would have been elementary to fix. There is now a unique chaplain and hydromancer model though, so it would not have been hard to do a model/color swap for them. Then again, it's dubious if they're even Kul Tirans, since they followed Thrall from the mainland.

As a side note, it baffles me to still see people trot out Blizzard's "we cut out all extra features because we just listen to the purists so much", when, given the state and performance of the beta luckily fixed at least for me on the EU Client, it's blindingly obvious that they just ran out of budget and badly misused their time and decided to ship out what they had to make some money.

[Trbn]

Did anyone see those mythical purists who whined and bitched about story and campaign changes? There were literally none

B. just played "community fault" card and trying to get away with it. Even though Golden is shit writer it would be good to see the story to not contradict with current maps and lore but sorry.

Community DEMANDED no changes, though I'd like to see exactly where and who demanded it

[FlasKamel]

Disappointed in the graphics. I know I'm being a bitch about it, but 70% of the appeal for me was to see the game updated with BLIZZARD's art style. I don't like this mobile phone aesthetic.

[Rexosaurus]

@People fighting over Christie Golden

Idk why you guys think that the quality of the story has dropped. Ever since WoW actually tried to tell story in Wrath, it has just been (sometimes) cool moments that are surrounded by disjointed garbage that only exists to lead you to the next big moment. The only thing that has changed is that there's more story than there used to be.

It seems pretty superfluous to fight over a single writer. Especially when, aside from random tweets, we don't even know how much direct input any single person on their writing team has.