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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    There are good and bad aspects to store mounts but they have been making them since Wrath so who cares at this point.
    I feel that's kind of a bad argument, ey?

    "It's happening since x, so whatever."

    And I think most of us, myself included, were okay with it because we were too naive to believe in the slippery slope. But after WoD? Ehh, not so much.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    So what happened after WoD?
    You know, WoD? The expansion with a bazillion wolf and boar mounts while mounts like the Grinning Reaver, Iron Skyreaver and Fey Drake are on the store?

  3. #403
    Whining for the sake of whining. Never change to another MMORPG because they are infinetly worse in every regard even the oh so hyped FF14. YOu get somthign for playing the game. You don't wanna play you don't get it. And you don't need it because you do not play. I don't see this as a Micortransaction or ruse. I have read the arguments on thsi threat but it still feels al lot like just bashing becuase a game is not to your liking.
    If something like this gets yu so worked up maybe, just maybe it is time for a change. Or pause until the next addon. But you propably are convinced SL will be the worst addon ever because... well for no reason. Just KNOW it... *sigh*

    One whine threat after another.
    The new Raid is fun but who cares right? Focus on the bad things!!! This will enrich the experience of everyone involved i am sure about it

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Whining for the sake of whining. Never change to another MMORPG because they are infinetly worse in every regard even the oh so hyped FF14. YOu get somthign for playing the game. You don't wanna play you don't get it. And you don't need it because you do not play. I don't see this as a Micortransaction or ruse. I have read the arguments on thsi threat but it still feels al lot like just bashing becuase a game is not to your liking.
    If something like this gets yu so worked up maybe, just maybe it is time for a change. Or pause until the next addon. But you propably are convinced SL will be the worst addon ever because... well for no reason. Just KNOW it... *sigh*

    One whine threat after another.
    The new Raid is fun but who cares right? Focus on the bad things!!! This will enrich the experience of everyone involved i am sure about it
    Enjoy your final boss ad management fight and Azerite kamehameha.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Enjoy your final boss ad management fight and Azerite kamehameha.
    Is it bad yes. But i don't raid for one cinematic at the end which gets boring after you watched it once. I would have liked a longer one to but that does NOT make the bosses bad.

    If you just care about that and not the gameplay go watch a movie. There you have a 2 hour cinematic. And n top you don't have to play a game

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    I don't tend to make a huge deal out of cosmetic pixels, so never given it much thought. Doesn't seem like a huge problem tbh.
    Good that you don't care. Not everyone cares about it, but a lot do-- we don't kill checkered cubes in checkered cube environments for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Is it bad yes. But i don't raid for one cinematic at the end which gets boring after you watched it once. I would have liked a longer one to but that does NOT make the bosses bad.

    If you just care about that and not the gameplay go watch a movie. There you have a 2 hour cinematic. And n top you don't have to play a game
    I wasn't just making light of the story, but the fight itself, too.

    But yes, for anyone who cares about the story-- which is a big part of an MMORPG, the cinematic is laughable in and of itself, even if you never get to experience the fight that precedes it.

  7. #407
    Can't stand him. His usual videos consist of 'OH MY GOD A WAHMAN IS NOW LEAD IN A TV SHOW WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS I HOPE IT FAILS'. Should archaic rhetoric
    RETH

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Can't stand him. His usual videos consist of 'OH MY GOD A WAHMAN IS NOW LEAD IN A TV SHOW WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS I HOPE IT FAILS'. Should archaic rhetoric
    Imagine having to strawman a guy who calls himself "Heel vs Babyface," and who very knowingly switched back to covering WoW content with a negative tone because he was starting to lose money.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    You know, WoD? The expansion with a bazillion wolf and boar mounts while mounts like the Grinning Reaver, Iron Skyreaver and Fey Drake are on the store?
    warlords of Draenor was the expansion where they had less than 80 people working on the game so they cobbled together systems that were unfinished to create an expansion.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  10. #410
    Horrible youtuber and a leech that makes money from peoples hatred.

    Scumbag.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    Horrible youtuber and a leech that makes money from peoples hatred.

    Scumbag.
    He'd make good friends with Activision-Blizzard higher-ups. B)

  12. #412
    @Raelbo.

    If you wanted an example of what I meant about the playerbase being conditioned to these types of marketing tactics, look at this thread on the front page. People literally having no provlem with paid cosmetic lootboxes being added to the game.

    That's the state of a growing number of players. Absolutely willing to be milked with lootboxes.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    @Raelbo.

    If you wanted an example of what I meant about the playerbase being conditioned to these types of marketing tactics, look at this thread on the front page. People literally having no provlem with paid cosmetic lootboxes being added to the game.

    That's the state of a growing number of players. Absolutely willing to be milked with lootboxes.
    No but it's fine because it's "just cosmetics."

    So long as my numbers aren't taken away from me, that's all. Because in an MMORPG it's all about numbers, mathematical progression, not visual. You need to use your numbers to take down the numbers so you can loot the corpse and get items that give you greater numbers.

    Ugh.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    No but it's fine because it's "just cosmetics."

    So long as my numbers aren't taken away from me, that's all. Because in an MMORPG it's all about numbers, mathematical progression, not visual. You need to use your numbers to take down the numbers so you can loot the corpse and get items that give you greater numbers.

    Ugh.
    Despite the sarcasm, for some players that's true. But a wide variety of people play the game for a wide variety of reasons. And even top raiders like to tote their exclusive top tier gear over scrubs.

    And that's not even considering how game companies can't be trusted to not manipulate droprates to promote purchasing boxes.

    If you needed a reason why I gripe about something as "insignificant" as a cash shop mount, there it is.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Despite the sarcasm, for some players that's true. But a wide variety of people play the game for a wide variety of reasons. And even top raiders like to tote their exclusive top tier gear over scrubs.
    In my book, paid cosmetics are not pay to win. After all, cosmetics have generally one of two purposes: to show off some hard-earned appearance or to look a certain way the player wants to. Now for the latter, just let them. And as for prestige - at least in games I play (WoW and Guild Wars 2) store cosmetics are distinct enough that the discerning player will know what look is earned and what is bought.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    In my book, paid cosmetics are not pay to win. After all, cosmetics have generally one of two purposes: to show off some hard-earned appearance or to look a certain way the player wants to. Now for the latter, just let them. And as for prestige - at least in games I play (WoW and Guild Wars 2) store cosmetics are distinct enough that the discerning player will know what look is earned and what is bought.
    I never said they were pay to win. However, they do fall under the same complaint I have as any cash shop cosmetic: It's something that could be used as a reward for actual gameplay. It encourages players to get into the game and actually earn rewards instead of just swiping the credit card. Diablo 3's AH is a perfect example of what happens when players are allowed to pay for progress. And cosmetic appearances can absolutely be viewed as progression.

    As it stands, the number of mounts is currently relatively low. But add in look boxes for any number of appearances? You know there will be unique appearances not available through normal play. Or at least the droprates will be skewed to a ridiculous degree to promote purchasing it.

    GW2 also has a very different business model than wow. Primarily by not charging a subscription. If Blizz changed the model of wow to B2P or full F2P, that would change the discussion significantly. But with a box price and a sub, adding cash shop items or loot boxes is over the line.

    Not to mention that paid cosmetics are not targeted at "discerning" players, but at whales and impulse purchases. The industry has shown time and again that they can not be trusted to use this business model responsibility(both players and corporations).
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2020-01-29 at 07:26 AM.

  17. #417
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    @Raelbo.

    If you wanted an example of what I meant about the playerbase being conditioned to these types of marketing tactics, look at this thread on the front page. People literally having no provlem with paid cosmetic lootboxes being added to the game.

    That's the state of a growing number of players. Absolutely willing to be milked with lootboxes.
    No offense, but your argument here is basically at the level of a conspiracy theory. Which means that there is no way to convince you, or disprove what you say, as your argument basically depends on taking the benefit of the doubt. So while you've gone to great lengths in your previous post to explain your mode of thinking, your entire argument still rests on a few unsubstantiated assertions.

    For example, you're claiming a direct link between the 6 month+mount promotion and "conditioning" players for lootboxes, but you haven't done anything to substantiate that claim. Yet you are confident that you are correct because people would be willing to pay for lootboxes.

    If you wanted to verify your claim, you'd need to be able to assess the attitude of people towards lootboxes both before and after exposure to these mount promotions and show that people who previously were anti lootboxes and who decided to go for this promotion changed their attitude.

    1) There is zero evidence that anyone's attitude towards lootboxes was different before this promotion and the so-called "conditioning"
    2) There is zero evidence that buying into this promotion has affected behaviour in other ways
    3) There is evidence that people who opt in for this promotion are anti lootbox

    Nothing is proven, but #3 suggests that your theory is nonsense. But of course you'll take the benefit of the doubt as proof.


    Personally I don't care what other people choose to do with their hard earned money as long as they aren't being coerced into it. And as I have repeatedly said, I don't see any form of coercion going on with this promotion.

    The thing about coercion is that people who do end up being coerced tend to feel aggrieved after the fact. To me it's telling that the people here (like you) who take issue with this promotion are not victims of said coercion, but rather self proclaimed defenders of those who have been coerced. So where are they?

    Essentially your entire argument rests on the notion that some hypothetical players are close to helpless to resist this promotion, and that there existence is proof of coercion. And your evidence of their existence? The "law of averages". Which is nonsense. Because while, yes, I accept the notion that some people are susceptible to making really stupid decisions without any form of coercion, the fact that they don't require any form of coercion means that they cannot be proof of coercion.

    This is why your argument is so tenuous and why, real as it seems to you, just comes across as nonsense to those of us who haven't drunk the proverbial Kool Aid

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    No offense, but your argument here is basically at the level of a conspiracy theory. Which means that there is no way to convince you, or disprove what you say, as your argument basically depends on taking the benefit of the doubt. So while you've gone to great lengths in your previous post to explain your mode of thinking, your entire argument still rests on a few unsubstantiated assertions.

    For example, you're claiming a direct link between the 6 month+mount promotion and "conditioning" players for lootboxes, but you haven't done anything to substantiate that claim. Yet you are confident that you are correct because people would be willing to pay for lootboxes.

    If you wanted to verify your claim, you'd need to be able to assess the attitude of people towards lootboxes both before and after exposure to these mount promotions and show that people who previously were anti lootboxes and who decided to go for this promotion changed their attitude.

    1) There is zero evidence that anyone's attitude towards lootboxes was different before this promotion and the so-called "conditioning"
    2) There is zero evidence that buying into this promotion has affected behaviour in other ways
    3) There is evidence that people who opt in for this promotion are anti lootbox

    Nothing is proven, but #3 suggests that your theory is nonsense. But of course you'll take the benefit of the doubt as proof.


    Personally I don't care what other people choose to do with their hard earned money as long as they aren't being coerced into it. And as I have repeatedly said, I don't see any form of coercion going on with this promotion.

    The thing about coercion is that people who do end up being coerced tend to feel aggrieved after the fact. To me it's telling that the people here (like you) who take issue with this promotion are not victims of said coercion, but rather self proclaimed defenders of those who have been coerced. So where are they?

    Essentially your entire argument rests on the notion that some hypothetical players are close to helpless to resist this promotion, and that there existence is proof of coercion. And your evidence of their existence? The "law of averages". Which is nonsense. Because while, yes, I accept the notion that some people are susceptible to making really stupid decisions without any form of coercion, the fact that they don't require any form of coercion means that they cannot be proof of coercion.

    This is why your argument is so tenuous and why, real as it seems to you, just comes across as nonsense to those of us who haven't drunk the proverbial Kool Aid
    Oh...so we're going to open with insults? Do you see? This is why I hesitated to try and explain with any detail. And you just proved me right. Rather than have a reasonable discussion, you decided it would be easier to take an entire several paragraphs to go full ad hominem.

    And before you go into some kind of "gotcha" moment about how I refuse to explain myself when challenged, maybe think real hard about not starting your next interaction by implying multiple times that the person you want a response from is crazy.

    We're done here. I should have known better than to expect basic civility.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2020-01-29 at 10:42 AM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Blizzard has laid off over 800 people last year, are now hiring a fraction off that back at a lower salary.
    Blizzard has laid off hundreds of GM and whatnot over the course of the last decade and replaced them with automated systems.
    Blizzard has improved their internal structure for a more efficient design and development process.
    Your fine to belive and trust who ever you want, but please stop using the lie that Blizzard fired 800, Activision Blizzard fired around 800 in total, around 592 from Activisons part of the company, and 208 from Blizzards part, not all but most of the people was from Blizzard´s eu side and was working in administration handlings sales and distribution, which isnt so wierd cuting down the people there since most people buy digital now.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I am starting to get the feeling that this concept is beyond some people...
    take my advice, lifes too short to argue with morons like Kralljin, i wasted a lot of time trying to argue while he just repeated the same nonsense without any argument at all, just his twisted mindset... block him and live a hapy life

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