The big bad of the expansion: N'Zoth VS The Horde

[KOUNTERPARTS]

It should have been N'Zoth, since that was the story they were trying to go.


The execution of it: piss-poor.


This expansion definitely suffered from inconsistent storytelling. This was said in another thread, but it felt like there were too many writers for this expansion who either were not communicating with each other as the story progressed or just cared about putting in what one writer thought would be cool.

[Syegfryed]

mean this expansion was rly garbage isn't, blizzard big card now is make the last bos/patch flip 180° from what they were doing, maybe trying to get attention but sure its fucked, bfa would b e so much better if it was all about azerite and old gods

[Leih]

I feel like 8.3 is a lot like Rise of Skywalker. Just replace Palpatine with N'Zoth and Sylvanas with Kylo Ren. Anduin is Rey.

When Sylvanas kisses Anduin in Shadowlands after sacrificing herself and saving the world, we'll have come full circle.

[Ophenia]

But but but, N'zoth was whispering to people so everything the Horde did was N'zoth's will

Well, that was probably the intended BfA story, until that Jailer nonsense came out of nowhere

The biggest problem is that N'zoth doesn't exist, hence no problem. He is in an alternate dimension dude, who cares about what he does. If he was physically here, as he was supposed to be, he would have crushed us as soon as he was freed. But he was "freed" (how tf was he even imprisoned if he is not even in our reality ? No idea), and instantly disappeared from our reality. Big deal.

Sylvanas was the main villain of the first half of BfA. N'Zoth was the main villain of the second half of BfA. It's simple. N'Zoth was also the overarching villain of BfA, as his presence was felt ever since the questing experience.

I have not seen any reference to N'zoth or any hint toward his presence during the whole Horde leveling. Myth'rax spoke about Ny'alotha maybe ? No idea really, Myth'rax was working for G'huun and not N'zoth anyway.

[omeomorfismo]

For the people saying: War stuff happens, that is nothing special: you are right, but I am talking about the impact that the deeds of one party had. E.g. the war was started by the horde, so while both parties, alliance AND horde might have killed many thousands on the battlefield (although it is never shown for the horde AFAIK), the impact that this deed had, is much bigger than the impact Nzoth had. He also started a war, like the horde did, but way, way less people were affected by it.

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Yes, but that place is a damb dessert where nearly nobody lives. Like if this was a Dragon Ball Z Episode, this is the place where Goku would take the opponents to fight.

uhm no. this is the place that is even the opponent, more or less like babidy spaceship. and you know, even the supreme god of the universe cared about that place...

[Ardenaso]

To some degree, even Anduin was him self responsible for so many of these ten thousand deaths that occurred because of his inexperience as a leader in war.

marching towards Silithus was Tyrande's idea and she even urged Anduin to say yes

[Varodoc]

But but but, N'zoth was whispering to people so everything the Horde did was N'zoth's will

Well, that was probably the intended BfA story, until that Jailer nonsense came out of nowhere

The biggest problem is that N'zoth doesn't exist, hence no problem. He is in an alternate dimension dude, who cares about what he does. If he was physically here, as he was supposed to be, he would have crushed us as soon as he was freed. But he was "freed" (how tf was he even imprisoned if he is not even in our reality ? No idea), and instantly disappeared from our reality. Big deal.



I have not seen any reference to N'zoth or any hint toward his presence during the whole Horde leveling. Myth'rax spoke about Ny'alotha maybe ? No idea really, Myth'rax was working for G'huun and not N'zoth anyway.

The Naga appear in all three zones. In Zuldazar they occupied the eastern shoreline (and in particular occupied the area around the Temple of Gral), in Vol'dun they threatened the Temple of the tigre loa (forgot the name, Kambul something), and in Nazmir they were scavenging the ruins along the northern shoreline.

[Lelkowski]

It was saurfangs sadness.

OT: Obviously its N'zoth. Its just that we are missing like 50 chapters that were supposed to connect 8.2 and 8.3.

Don't worry, we will get this in books.

[Feanoro]

I mean half the stuff listed under the Horde is just general war stuff, hardly villainous.

And the other half was flat out monstrous, unless acts like pinning Kul Tiran farmers to walls with spears while their children watch is "general war stuff".

But but but, N'zoth was whispering to people so everything the Horde did was N'zoth's will

They're very good at going apeshit at the slightest suggestion from anyone.

The biggest problem is that N'zoth doesn't exist, hence no problem. He is in an alternate dimension dude, who cares about what he does. If he was physically here, as he was supposed to be, he would have crushed us as soon as he was freed. But he was "freed" (how tf was he even imprisoned if he is not even in our reality ? No idea), and instantly disappeared from our reality. Big deal.

It's the same problems as "there must always be a Lich King". 1) The writers are too scared to have us actually LOSE. 2) They have no idea how to deliver on their hype for big bads.

There were some great ideas here about N'Zoth slapping us around and we start the next expansion in enclaves and hideouts against his global rule. A lot of our power had been drained (the ideas were focused on the discovery that we'd be level 50) and we had to build back up again.

Instead we get Danuser's waifu nasally sneering again and retconning everything since Cata so we can go beat the shit out of cheap copies of existing factions.

[Varodoc]

And the other half was flat out monstrous, unless acts like pinning Kul Tiran farmers to walls with spears while their children watch is "general war stuff".

That kid scene was pretty terrible, but imho the most disgusting scene is that Forsaken mage in a basement who turned a peasant into a fish and then laughed. That's just....

And Horde fanboys then have the gall to defend Sylvanas.

[Lolites]

i think this time the "big bad" is the expansion itself

[Verdugo]

That kid scene was pretty terrible, but imho the most disgusting scene is that Forsaken mage in a basement who turned a peasant into a fish and then laughed. That's just....

Its fine, he is forgiven now since evil blue elf told him that she didnt like him that much.

[Lolites]

That kid scene was pretty terrible, but imho the most disgusting scene is that Forsaken mage in a basement who turned a peasant into a fish and then laughed. That's just....

And Horde fanboys then have the gall to defend Sylvanas.

is it really that much worse than feeding innocents to sharks?
yet people still defend Jaina and purge of dalaran...

in every war, be it real or fictional, shit happens, that most people find horrible

[Feanoro]

Its fine, he is forgiven now since evil blue elf told him that she didnt like him that much.

AND we have a piece of paper signed by illiterates who surely will honor it unlike every single agreement prior!

[Varodoc]

AND we have a piece of paper signed by illiterates who surely will honor it unlike every single agreement prior!

Well see that's already an improvement. At least now we have an actual written armistice instead of the verbal armistice we had at the end of MoP.

Give it a few more faction wars and we'll finally establish a garrison in Orgrimmar to monitor the Horde.

[Feanoro]

Well see that's already an improvement. At least now we have an actual written armistice instead of the verbal armistice we had at the end of MoP.

Give it a few more faction wars and we'll finally establish a garrison in Orgrimmar to monitor the Horde.

You're funny. The message since WC3 for Alliance has been "Don't fight back, wait for the Horde's bloodlust to fade, wait for the next time they feel genocidey and lie to yourself that it won't happen again".

As of WoD, we had an offscreen treaty, but as part of the current writers doing MoP 2.0 "right" we actually get to SEE the treaty. Bonus points, they get to paint the only two sane Alliance leaders as "blinded by vengeance" and so on.

[Vampyrr]

The Naga appear in all three zones. In Zuldazar they occupied the eastern shoreline (and in particular occupied the area around the Temple of Gral), in Vol'dun they threatened the Temple of the tigre loa (forgot the name, Kambul something), and in Nazmir they were scavenging the ruins along the northern shoreline.

Naga have been a constant everywhere near water since Vanilla that doesn't make N'Zoth a big player in all things. Just oh look mor Azshara bullshittery dododo.

[Kyphael]

More like N'zoth vs. Sylvanas. The others were just puppets, tangled in strings. Only Gallywix had as ill intentions as Sylvanas. Varok went along due to the twisted Orc ideals that you must follow a Warchief blindly into war, until he thought not really, and gave up. We weren't privy to Baine or Lor'themar's thoughts early on, but they always look like dopes, I expect very little out of them.

The real monster is Sylvanas. The rest are spineless accomplices to war crimes who when their boss got found out, they struck a deal for reduced prison time.

[Accendor]

To some degree, even Anduin was him self responsible for so many of these ten thousand deaths that occurred because of his inexperience as a leader in war.

OT:
Biggest villain from my view: N'zoth, he made plans upon plans, upon plans, hell we don't even know where the heck Knife woman has gone.
Worst Villain: N'zoth, while he is also my biggest villain for this expansion, his also the worst as most people suddenly went: wait who is this guy? there was hardly any explanation and the little there was was a bit, vague.
Best villain: Sylvanas, hands down. I want to gut her for what SHE did to Teldrassil.
Smallest villain: Anduin, because of his inexperience and his stubbornness to listen to his council members, due to his naivety he cost the Alliance a lot of manpower, including refusing to listen to Tyrande and understand her point of view regarding the Horde and why the Alliance should not sign a peace treaty.

1. The HORDE burned Teldrassil, not Sylvanas. The horde slaughtered innocent people, not Sylvanas. Of course she is Hitler, but every leader, if only so small, in the horde are his/her generals. You can excuse the regular troops and grunts, but not the persons in command or the player characters (faction champions who activelvy participated in the war of thorns)
2. Saying Anduin is a villain here for the reasons you stated is the same as saying "If she didn't want to get raped, why is she wearing this kind of clothes?"

[Verdugo]

2. Saying Anduin is a villain here for the reasons you stated is the same as saying "If she didn't want to get raped, why is she wearing this kind of clothes?"

More like seducing someone when drunk, then having regrets about it.