9.0 Shaman redesign suggestions

[Unholyground]

Enhancement needs less spells IMO, too many to begin with, crash lightning needs to go as well as the annoying Storm strike spamming, they need a real rotation.

[Nahrees]

Enhancement needs less spells IMO, too many to begin with, crash lightning needs to go as well as the annoying Storm strike spamming, they need a real rotation.

I think Enhancement has a good number of spells, but most of the spells are really lackluster. Lava Lash is boring, Flame Tongue is press and forget, and the only real thing that feels good is the Stormstrike spam. I'm bias towards Crash Lightning vs the Magma Totem + Fire Nova combo.

Enhancement had a priority rotation system since around BC. Not sure if only moving away from the Stormstrike spam would really help the spec.

[Unholyground]

I think Enhancement has a good number of spells, but most of the spells are really lackluster. Lava Lash is boring, Flame Tongue is press and forget, and the only real thing that feels good is the Stormstrike spam. I'm bias towards Crash Lightning vs the Magma Totem + Fire Nova combo.

Enhancement had a priority rotation system since around BC. Not sure if only moving away from the Stormstrike spam would really help the spec.

I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.

[Nahrees]

I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.

Current Rotation:
Flame Tongue before it drops, Stormstrike on CD, Rockbiter when below 30 Maelstrom, Lava Lash whenever you have nothing else to spend. Crash Lightning whenever you're in an AoE situation. Add in whatever talents, Sunder being the most likely of those.

Past Rotation:
Searing Totem, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt at 5 stacks, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Unleashed Elements, and Earth Shock. AoE was Chain Lightning with Magma Totem.

The rotation before Legion had more going on. If your complaint is with bloat, I think you would be more in-line with what it is now than pre-Legion.

[Grimbold21]

I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.

I mean, excluding CDs and depending on your spec, Enhancement has 6 or 7 abilities.

Flame tongue and Frostbrand (if Hailstorm is speced) to keep up
Rockbitter
Crash Lightning
Stromstrike
Lava Lash
Sundering

Add wolves or ascendance depending on what you choose

[Unholyground]

Current Rotation:
Flame Tongue before it drops, Stormstrike on CD, Rockbiter when below 30 Maelstrom, Lava Lash whenever you have nothing else to spend. Crash Lightning whenever you're in an AoE situation. Add in whatever talents, Sunder being the most likely of those.

Past Rotation:
Searing Totem, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt at 5 stacks, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Unleashed Elements, and Earth Shock. AoE was Chain Lightning with Magma Totem.

The rotation before Legion had more going on. If your complaint is with bloat, I think you would be more in-line with what it is now than pre-Legion.

I always found they had bloat to be honest, or maybe it is just akward.

[MiiiMiii]

How do you guys feel about the era where Enhancement had "Maelstorm stacks" 1-5 and at 5 you got instant LB/Heal?

Is that a dead design or was it better than current Enhancement?

[Bodakane]

Enhance become tank, plays the same but with shield. That is all.

[Nahrees]

How do you guys feel about the era where Enhancement had "Maelstorm stacks" 1-5 and at 5 you got instant LB/Heal?

Is that a dead design or was it better than current Enhancement?

It was appropriate back then when we were less GCD locked. Stormstrike also increased the nature damage we dealt to the target, so it felt good to see a big Lightning Bolt hit. I enjoyed the play style back then, but it doesn't fit anymore. Stormstrike now is way more satisfying then seeing the occasional big Lightning Bolt hit.

Enhance become tank, plays the same but with shield. That is all.

Why would they do that instead of making a 4th spec like druids?

[Bodakane]

Why would they do that instead of making a 4th spec like druids?

Because I want a tank spec that plays similarly to enhance

[gd8]

extremely bad suggestions OP no thank you

[Nahrees]

Because I want a tank spec that plays similarly to enhance

That would be awesome and I would play it instantly. You do have to consider that changing a DPS to a tank would instantly make it very different. I think the current version of Prot Warrior and being able to spam Thunderclap is kinda close to that feeling of hitting hard with a lightning ability.

There's another thread discussing a tank spec, maybe add some thought to it.

extremely bad suggestions OP no thank you

OP is suggesting some pretty radical and cluttered spec ideas. What would you rather see?

[Bodakane]

That would be awesome and I would play it instantly. You do have to consider that changing a DPS to a tank would instantly make it very different. I think the current version of Prot Warrior and being able to spam Thunderclap is kinda close to that feeling of hitting hard with a lightning ability.

There's another thread discussing a tank spec, maybe add some thought to it.

I don't think has to be different at all. Just add in self heals and damage reduction into the actual current spells. Tweak the math it should be just fine.

[Nahrees]

I don't think has to be different at all. Just add in self heals and damage reduction into the actual current spells. Tweak the math it should be just fine.

I'll humor you then. Here's what you're suggesting, and note this is me trying to balance the same abilities to instead of doing damage, to be tank mitigations.

Stormstrike: - Main damage spell to dump Maelstrom. Can't reset nearly as often as it does currently as we need to dump Maelstrom into active mitigation.
Flametongue Weapon: - Becomes Flametongue Shield(?) that increases our block chance and deals a minor amount of fire damage when we are hit.
Feral Spirits: - Works similarly to how Blood DK's Dancing Rune Weapon in which the wolves would increase our dodge for the duration.
Rockbiter: - Our main Maelstrom generator still.
Astral Shift: - Becomes our Shield Wall, so big CD for big DR.
Healing Surge: - Another Maelstrom dump with a cooldown that instantly heals us for an amount.

These are just the abilities. We would have to change our talent tree vastly. If you think the gameplay wouldn't change, you'd be really wrong. Enhancement was never a tank, even when they had somewhat of a toolkit back in classic and somewhat into BC.

[Bodakane]

I'll humor you then. Here's what you're suggesting, and note this is me trying to balance the same abilities to instead of doing damage, to be tank mitigations.

Stormstrike: - Main damage spell to dump Maelstrom. Can't reset nearly as often as it does currently as we need to dump Maelstrom into active mitigation.
Flametongue Weapon: - Becomes Flametongue Shield(?) that increases our block chance and deals a minor amount of fire damage when we are hit.
Feral Spirits: - Works similarly to how Blood DK's Dancing Rune Weapon in which the wolves would increase our dodge for the duration.
Rockbiter: - Our main Maelstrom generator still.
Astral Shift: - Becomes our Shield Wall, so big CD for big DR.
Healing Surge: - Another Maelstrom dump with a cooldown that instantly heals us for an amount.

These are just the abilities. We would have to change our talent tree vastly. If you think the gameplay wouldn't change, you'd be really wrong. Enhancement was never a tank, even when they had somewhat of a toolkit back in classic and somewhat into BC.

WADR, your lack of understanding or inability, to quickly and off the top of your head, make what I'm talking about happen is not an indictment of what i'm talking about.

[Nahrees]

WADR, your lack of understanding or inability, to quickly and off the top of your head, make what I'm talking about happen is not an indictment of what i'm talking about.

What you're suggesting is to change a spec that has been around since classic from one role to another, and somehow you think it would be fine for people that play/played Enhancement. You're not suggesting spec changes, you're suggesting a complete rework that you can't compare to the spec redesigns that Survival and Demonology had in Legion.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Do not agree with OP, unfortunately. Seems like a little bit of a step backwards.

Mana was relocated to the realm of healers because it's a form of throttling mechanic that only becomes important in longer fights. Shaman already use mana to fund healing and utility spells, and it serves its purpose there by forcing a Shaman to throttle back on those kinds of functions. Note that Arcane Mages are a standout here, because they use a similar throttling mechanic in a DPS role, and that's part of their unique setup.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mana made into more of a thing for all offensive casters and not just healers, to fund their wide variety of utility spells, which are likely going to be added back in come 9.0. The thing is...

All those totems? I agree, bring them ALL back, and with modest cooldowns, but jack up the mana cost so that you are making a conscious decision between dropping a temporary group buff, purging buffs from enemies, pinch healing, or using defensive abilities, and punish long term mana usage by reducing non-healer mana regen. I also believe this should be for ALL hybrid/non-healer specs.

Shields and Primal Strike are where the attention in 9.0 should go, if you ask me.

Lava Burst for Restoration should be replaced with Tidal Burst, same effect but dealing Frost damage and using the graphic from the Azerite Trait Tidal Surge. Earth Shield and Water Shield both for Restoration, Earth Shield for putting onto a tank, Water Shield for the Resto Shaman themselves, Water Shield reacts to incoming damage by triggering a short range AoE knockback(like Thunderstorm on Ele) on a 30ish ICD (including a shield block animation on trigger), and possibly causing the Shaman's next healing spell to be instant, rather than playing a mana regen role as in previous xpacs. This means it works best when you are attacked, playing up the hybrid melee nature of the Shaman, and emphasizing the fact that Resto typically uses a SHIELD in their off hand. A reactive, handy defensive tool that is designed to save your bacon from a leveling healer perspective.

Ele and Enh should both have access to Lightning Shield, serving a similar reactive/defensive role, Ele's should trigger a block when it activates, and Enh's should trigger a parry when it activates, emphasizing the melee combatant component of Shaman hybridization.

Primal Strike for Ele and Resto should be about preserving spell casts from melee when opponents make it past the already pretty impressive kiting tools (Thunderstorm, Frost Shock, Snare/Root totems), and I believe the best mechanism is to have Primal Strike usable during casts of Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, and the three hard-cast healing spells, instantly finishing those casts, dealing damage, building maelstrom. This makes it unique, flavorful, fits the toolkit, and a lot more versatile in pvp and leveling, without overly impacting the end game raiding scene, as it will rarely be worth it to stand in melee just to get the instant finished spells when the CD is up.

[Bodakane]

What you're suggesting is to change a spec that has been around since classic from one role to another, and somehow you think it would be fine for people that play/played Enhancement. You're not suggesting spec changes, you're suggesting a complete rework that you can't compare to the spec redesigns that Survival and Demonology had in Legion.

I suggested none of that.

- - - Updated - - -

What you're suggesting is to change a spec that has been around since classic from one role to another, and somehow you think it would be fine for people that play/played Enhancement. You're not suggesting spec changes, you're suggesting a complete rework that you can't compare to the spec redesigns that Survival and Demonology had in Legion.

I suggested none of that.

- - - Updated - - -

What you're suggesting is to change a spec that has been around since classic from one role to another, and somehow you think it would be fine for people that play/played Enhancement. You're not suggesting spec changes, you're suggesting a complete rework that you can't compare to the spec redesigns that Survival and Demonology had in Legion.

I suggested none of that.

[StillMcfuu]

I actually like the idea of a modern enhance tank.

Some thoughts:
Gimmick: pets as defensive cooldowns.
Feral Spirits increase tank armor/mitigation (physical) and will absorb, die, (up to 10% killing blows) and heal the shaman.
Fire Ele increase magic resistance, will absorb and die (up to 10% killing blows) and heal shaman.
Earth Ele: Becomes focus target for shaman (normally works as a "pet that taunts", I want it to take the place of the shaman on threat table) lasts for 3-5 seconds, explodes for 10% dmg taken as damage and 20yd aoe healing.
Earth shield is back, maintained with maelstrom.
ES stacks 10 times providing armor per stack (not accumulative, say 1000arm for 1 stack and 1250 at 10 stacks), breaking a stack gives tank a HOT, breaking a stack while a HOT is up will replace HOT and give shaman a +200% tick.
No direct heal, I think that's the pally schtick.
Instead some abilities, say damage mitigation totem or healing chain totem will consume a stack of ES to drop.

That's the type of management I think of. At least a modern representation of an enh tank.

[Nahrees]

The idea of a shaman tank is a good one, but why make enhancement the tank? Why not just make a new spec? Enhancement would need to many changes to make it a tank, it would be a new spec already.