Shadowlands, level squish and old raids

[SkagenRora]

Curious, did stat squishes screw things up? I can't recall any. Levels is basically another stat in essence. It's a number and I see no reason why it can't be squished as other stats.

Well, something is screwed up in old raids since the squish, even as lvl 90 i have problems beating BWL. Chromaggus will do his wipe mechanic if he's not killed fast enough. https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=14020/chromaggus and it feels pretty weird that a lvl 90 can't just one shot the bosses in a lvl 60 raid.

[TheRevenantHero]

they only said it should be as easy to farm old raids as it is now.... the questions is if and how they will screw up the unnecessary squish.

I've been playing the game since Vanilla. The level squish is absolutely necessary, especially if they want new players to jump in. Seeing a game where the max level is freaking 130 is daunting and would cause me to not even bother. Hell, I used to level every character I had to max level but now I don't because it just feels like a slog due to the bloat of levels. The level squish will absolutely make things feel less daunting.

[Nightstalker]

Anything except Mythic Legion and a few hc bosses is as simple as can be at this point. They will probably scale it down even more. So most bosses will fall over just from you targeting them.

[kaminaris]

Curious, did stat squishes screw things up? I can't recall any. Levels is basically another stat in essence. It's a number and I see no reason why it can't be squished as other stats.

There were few fuckups, i remember one from firelands. But blizz just slapped some flat damage buff and it was alright again.

[Linuriel]

I must admit, I don’t follow these things too closely, but was there any info released on the old raids in shadowlands?

With the stat squish and every previous expansion going 1-50, it’s safe to assume every old raid will be lvl50. Even with the extra 10 levels it might not be feasible to go there for pets/mounts/transmog and whathaveyou. Plus that “new” rule that you can only efficiently farm a place if it’s 2 expansions old or older might be wrongfully used in the shadowlands case.

All they will do is change the number of your level from 120 to 50. Stats will remain the same.

[Unlimited Power]

They'll probably not change the current system. Even when they changed the system by adding legacy loot in the BFA pre-patch, level 110 players lost access to WoD mythic raid loot that had remained static for all of Legion.

I'm guessing we'll just not get access to Legion legacy loot until we reach level 51+

I very much doubt we'll get access to legacy loot in BFA content at level 60.

[FlubberPuddy]

I must admit, I don’t follow these things too closely, but was there any info released on the old raids in shadowlands?

With the stat squish and every previous expansion going 1-50, it’s safe to assume every old raid will be lvl50. Even with the extra 10 levels it might not be feasible to go there for pets/mounts/transmog and whathaveyou. Plus that “new” rule that you can only efficiently farm a place if it’s 2 expansions old or older might be wrongfully used in the shadowlands case.

It's a level squish, not a stat squish like before. Our power will still increase, item lvl will still be something 500+ . They're just changing the lvl 120 to 50 pretty much.

[Littleraven]

Only level is being squished. Stats are staying the same from what I understand. So unlike WoD we will go into Shadowlands doing as much damage as we are now. Unless they change their minds in development and see that stats are too high again. And honestly we are far from that I think.

So I assume it will be just as easy as it is now. They may have to tweak the level advantage thing though. I expect some bugs with that early on but I don't see it working much different than it does now.

[beanman12345]

There is no stat squish. only level one

I thought so. wouldn't be surprised if the level squish causes some bugs with the stats though.

[Tang0]

The level is only a number and it's that getting squished. Our player power isn't getting squished in SL (seems they like doing that ever 2nd expac now)

It's a level squish, not a stat squish like before. Our power will still increase, item lvl will still be something 500+ . They're just changing the lvl 120 to 50 pretty much.

Are those some proven facts? Again, i don't follow it too closely, but i could not find any statements that support what you claim.

I don't think level squish could happen without a stat squish. It's not like you just replace 120 with 50 and add 10 more levels on top and go "i'm done, lol, time to take a break"

[Monster Hunter]

Are those some proven facts? Again, i don't follow it too closely, but i could not find any statements that support what you claim.

I don't think level squish could happen without a stat squish. It's not like you just replace 120 with 50 and add 10 more levels on top and go "i'm done, lol, time to take a break"

Was in one if the Blizzcon panels

Shadowlands will introduce a "level squish" -- existing characters will have their level number reduced to a new scale. Level 120 characters will wake up in the new expansion as level 50, and the other levels will scale down from there. Changing level numbers will not change your character's relative power; the level number is simply a new representation of your character's current power and development.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...s-level-squish

Levels are just numbers. You get small stat boosts each time u level but that can be adjusted to give more stats for less levels easily. So 50 levels will give as much stat as 120 does now. And gear won't change it will still give the same and ever one will still be doing the same level of dps and healing in SL at level 50 as they do now at level 120

[Tang0]

Was in one if the Blizzcon panels


https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...s-level-squish

Levels are just numbers. You get small stat boosts each time u level but that can be adjusted to give more stats for less levels easily. So 50 levels will give as much stat as 120 does now. And gear won't change it will still give the same and ever one will still be doing the same level of dps and healing in SL at level 50 as they do now at level 120

Relative power is the key there. They can throw it around and bend it however they like. Stat squish in legion didn't change your relative power btw. You still killed same monsters at approximately the same speed you did before. That's relative power. The only problem is: Blizzard don't know how to pace progression.

Here's the reasoning and examples behind my fears, feel free to crush them, if they are wrong:

One person plays bfa currently, let's say he ends at a reasonable ilvl of 450. And on SL release becomes a lvl 50, with same stats, as many people above mentioned.
Another person levels through bfa from 10 to 50 as part of the new leveling system.

1st has 400ish thousands hp and, let's be generous, 60k dps.
2nd is barely knocking at 100k hp and, let's be super generous here, 10k dps. (more like 5-8).

Do they get equalized by level 53-54, when they change most of their gear to the new expansion gear? The first one wants to progress too, so you can't keep his stats stagnant. So you have to increase his stats too, relative to his power. Imagine 460k hp and 70k dps in lvl 54 gear. A measely 15% upgrade in power. How do you adjust that for 2nd player? Double his power every/every other level? Did he have a miserable time at the end of SL feeling uderpowered? Cause they won't let player1 have too easy of a time. So they go for their famous scaling tech, which sort of invalidates your power, making the mobs more powerful the more power you have. But the 2nd guy got 7 times more dmg now. Will you just increase mob health 7fold in 4 levels? But you still need to increase his power up to level 60, and can't keep this pace up, unless you hit the millions before the first tier of the expansion even begins.

Also, how do you even pace leveling in 1 coherent expansion from 10 to 50, to arrive at a 100k hp? That'll be a progression to behold. What if i'm leveling through, say, BC? I come across black temple at level 45. What level is it? Can i go in and do it? Is it even possible? What value are the items inside for me?

Those are the questions that bug me. I'm in no way trying to argue "squish bad" or "Squish good" or to whine, or to flame. Just genuinely asking for opinions and information i don't posses.

[rrayy]

Curious, did stat squishes screw things up? I can't recall any. Levels is basically another stat in essence. It's a number and I see no reason why it can't be squished as other stats.

They completely borked things both times they did a squish and had to go back and fix things. They will bork it again.

[Syegfryed]

yeah, for like 2 weeks until everything got fixed

2 weeks is a lot of time, and with this new blizzard it could be like 2 months or more

[Zyrinx]

It's safe to assume they will fuck this up, out of the box, then fix it. They will miss a few instakill abilities. They may or may not fix those in a timely fashion.

If history is any guide anyways...

[qactuar]

Yeah, I'm really curious about how all the old dungeons/raids are going to work in SL. What level are they all going to be set to? Raids are typically set to the level caps for their expansions, which in SL's case should mean that every raid will be set to level 50 with 9.0. Otherwise, it's going to introduce the possibility of being able to raid 'not at level cap' for a given expansion. This isn't really something that's commonly done, but Herald of the Titans exists. What level will Ulduar/the achievement be set to once the squish occurs?

[FlubberPuddy]

Those are the questions that bug me. I'm in no way trying to argue "squish bad" or "Squish good" or to whine, or to flame. Just genuinely asking for opinions and information i don't posses.

All that you're saying doesn't make sense though. Did you know we get most of our hp/dps power from our armor? This is why a stat squish was far more affecting across all levels, because it was the power of items and their stats that became squished.

The Level squish is about the number of the character level itself, gear is not affected. I'm not sure how simpler to explain it. Something that is item level 445 today is going to stay item level 445 when Shadowlands releases and all its associated stats will be the same as well. That was not anywhere near the same has what happened with the stat squish where item levels of 975 were squished down to like 200.

Also your entire paragraph of a supposed conundrum isn't actually a conundrum and has existed as long as there's been expansions in WoW. Basically, for the person who normal raided the last tier of an expansion, they're not going to switch gear as often in the first few levels of the next expansion. Whereas the newbie coming into the old expac just trying to level up to cap to access the most current expac will start switching their gear immediately.

Once both are at max level cap of the current expansion their gear will have equalized through the leveling. Just like how in BfA people who had rank 81 Artifact weapons and Antorus Heroic gear and legendaries didn't have to replace all those until level 115+ whereas a complete newb leveling through Legion to 110 just to access BFA immediately took the leveling gear at 111+.

[Tang0]

The Level squish is about the number of the character level itself, gear is not affected. I'm not sure how simpler to explain it. Something that is item level 445 today is going to stay item level 445 when Shadowlands releases and all its associated stats will be the same as well. That was not anywhere near the same has what happened with the stat squish where item levels of 975 were squished down to like 200.

I have a strong feeling, that you are talking about a completely different thing. The point, where i personally thing it's stupid, that there is no stat squish alongside the level squish, is not the premise of this thread. Although i do find it pretty moronic for lvl 60 players to have hp and dps in the millions.

The thread, again, is only regarding the lvl squish and it's impact on old content, namely old raid levels and their position in the new leveling system.

[MrDaemon]

I've been playing the game since Vanilla. The level squish is absolutely necessary, especially if they want new players to jump in. Seeing a game where the max level is freaking 130 is daunting and would cause me to not even bother. Hell, I used to level every character I had to max level but now I don't because it just feels like a slog due to the bloat of levels. The level squish will absolutely make things feel less daunting.

You get free boost every expansion so not sure why new players would have a problem leveling. Also 130 levels doesn't mean anything. Only thing that matters is how fast you can level through it. Even if we need 50 levels I doubt leveling will be that much faster. I will not give blizzard any credit until I see myself what they do.

[Nevcairiel]

Only thing that matters is how fast you can level through it. Even if we need 50 levels I doubt leveling will be that much faster. I will not give blizzard any credit until I see myself what they do.

They did say that leveling should be 60-70% faster though. And not only that, with the "Chromie Time" linear expansion leveling, it should also be much more fun, so you are able to follow one story instead of having to jump between half-finished zones.