Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Inuyaki]

https://twitter.com/josephabondy/sta...31368618418176

hmm... is Graham even allowed to vote for/against witnesses if that is the case?

[jeezusisacasual]

@zenkai has 100 to 1 odds against Trump facing charges after he leaves office. See my sig for reference.

The rest of his life and likely the rest of his children's lives will be constant court cases until they are bankrupted or so morally defeated they make a larger mistake. I can see them being ran in and out of court for at the very least a decade afterwards.

[cubby]

Exactly. I still don't understand why the house was lazy and didn't try to collect more information before sending it to the senate to have a more iron clad case instead of hoping the republican senate would actually do their job to research their boss.

The House wasn't lazy - you have GOT to stop repeating GOP media points. The House did request Bolton, but the White House blocked him and several other people.

The House put together an iron clad case. IRON CLAD. The House also had other people they couldn't get because of block/ignored subpoenas. Moreover, there were new revelations after the Articles were voted upon that should have been investigated.

[derpkitteh]

He did it to try and extort them into interfering with a US election for his own political gain and he didn't legally withhold the aid either, he did it illegally without the proper authorization as he didn't want the dominant body in the matter to even know what he was doing.

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

but this is unimportant to me. ultimately, the investigation he may have wanted would have exposed corrupt behavior. whether it helps him or not, it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

so he uses some foreign country's handout to get it done, i don't really care. he gets helped or hurt by it, whatever. the surface-level of the behaviors of the rich and connected get exposed? yes, i like that to an extent. if only someone would get the balls to expose the deeper levels of shit these subhumans involve their selves in.

[cubby]

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

but this is unimportant to me. ultimately, the investigation he may have wanted would have exposed corrupt behavior. whether it helps him or not, it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

so he uses some foreign country's handout to get it done, i don't really care. he gets helped or hurt by it, whatever. the surface-level of the behaviors of the rich and connected get exposed? yes, i like that to an extent. if only someone would get the balls to expose the deeper levels of shit these subhumans involve their selves in.

I'm sure you understand then that enforcing laws aren't based entirely on whether you personally care about them.

[arandomuser]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/polit...ial/index.html

so basically all of the supposed "moderate senators" say
we dont need witnesses because they think trumps guilty
New witnesses that would testify to the truth of the allegations are not needed for my threshold analysis, which already assumed that all the allegations made are true," Rubio wrote.
BUT..he shouldnt be removed from office.. such a weird out for them, basically admitting the dems are right but still voting to help the president in 2020

wow

[shimerra]

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

but this is unimportant to me. ultimately, the investigation he may have wanted would have exposed corrupt behavior. whether it helps him or not, it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

so he uses some foreign country's handout to get it done, i don't really care. he gets helped or hurt by it, whatever. the surface-level of the behaviors of the rich and connected get exposed? yes, i like that to an extent. if only someone would get the balls to expose the deeper levels of shit these subhumans involve their selves in.

So basically you're that particular kind of stupid that thinks unless you can directly feel the impact there is no impact. Keeping in mind that even if you don't care about this particular action, which is the most pants on head retarded reason, by allowing this type of transgression and this type of trial the rich and connected you claim to despite will be granted broader leniency and be able to be even more brazen with abuses of power because tools like you didn't care enough to draw the line here meaning it has to be even worse than this for action to be taken.

And it does affect Americans. He took money lawfully distributed by congress, that Americans voted for to act on their behalf, and used that money to extort an ally harming American's national interests abroad(harms America because it damages our leaders ability to interact with other nations on the American people's behalf, and he used that money to illegally get another nation to start an investigation on an opponent to help him win an election saying fuck you to the people who voted him in and against him in favor of something that benefited him personally.

Seems like a lot of American's were affected there by a guy trying to manufacture dirt about an American/bad press so he can win an election.

[Shadowferal]

i still don't get what he was impeached for. why should i care if he did withhold money from a foreign government?

No...it's why he withheld money...

[Reeve]

@zenkai has 100 to 1 odds against Trump facing charges after he leaves office. See my sig for reference.

While Trump definitely deserves it, charging people with crimes after they leave office is a dangerous precedent. It's why Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There was a bunch of pending civil and criminal litigation pending against him, but he couldn't be charged as long as he was a proconsul. His term was about to expire and marching his armies on Rome was the only way he could stay out of prison.

And he's hardly the only example of a leader in world history who has stayed in power even unconstitutionally just to avoid prosecution.

This is why it's so important to be able to hold politicians to account while they're still in office.

[Shadowferal]

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

You're saying that you don't care if foreign governments help decide who is the president of the US.

Do you realize the ramifications of what you're saying.

[derpkitteh]

So basically you're that particular kind of stupid that thinks unless you can directly feel the impact there is no impact.

there isn't, because it isn't doing anything to americans.

it's withholding some handouts for ukraine. money that should be in the US citizen's pocket instead. maybe if we quit paying for the rest of the world's problems, we could have some fucking healthcare.

[arandomuser]

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

but this is unimportant to me. ultimately, the investigation he may have wanted would have exposed corrupt behavior. whether it helps him or not, it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

so he uses some foreign country's handout to get it done, i don't really care. he gets helped or hurt by it, whatever. the surface-level of the behaviors of the rich and connected get exposed? yes, i like that to an extent. if only someone would get the balls to expose the deeper levels of shit these subhumans involve their selves in.

ah trump and republicans cared so much about corruption, they approved the ukrainian aid in the house and senate, they signed into bidens letter calling for the resignation of the prosecutor, oh and didnt ask any other authoritarian government we give aid to "root out corruption" but only the one specific country at war with russia which helped get trump elected and specifically targeting a political opponent- makes absolute sense any president who cares about corruption knows saudi arabia is perfectly clean..

[Fugus]

if he withheld a portion of social security or something that actually effects americans, i'd care.

but this is unimportant to me. ultimately, the investigation he may have wanted would have exposed corrupt behavior. whether it helps him or not, it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

so he uses some foreign country's handout to get it done, i don't really care. he gets helped or hurt by it, whatever. the surface-level of the behaviors of the rich and connected get exposed? yes, i like that to an extent. if only someone would get the balls to expose the deeper levels of shit these subhumans involve their selves in.

That is about like saying, "Why do I care if the girl and her daughter get raped? It doesn't effect me, so I don't care". Sociopathic responses like that makes for bad legal defenses or justifications.

FYI, interfering with American elections does effect Americans.

[derpkitteh]

You're saying that you don't care if foreign governments help decide who is the president of the US.

Do you realize the ramifications of what you're saying.

they'd not be helping us directly.

they'd be conducting an investigation into corrupt behavior that took place in their country, and then letting the president know the results of that investigation. which, he'd have probably went and used in some election advertisements. that's not ukraine doing it or deciding our president.

[Reeve]

Charging people with crimes they committed is the backbone of our legal system. If someone gets to get away with that shit just because they were in office at one point we may as well pack it up and let Trump turn us into the dictatorship he so desperately desires.

I'm not saying we shouldn't charge people with crimes they've committed. I'm saying we should do so while they're in office.

[Texan Penguin]

I am not hopeful for a conviction at this point.

All I can hope is that the American people have more of a soul than our Senators do and that they turn Election Day into a metaphorical bloodbath. If the people we elect are so fearful for their careers that they aren’t willing to stand up to Trump and do what’s right for the country, maybe it’s time to give the car hanging off the cliff a nudge.

[Edge-]

they'd be conducting an investigation into corrupt behavior that took place in their country, and then letting the president know the results of that investigation.

1. Trump never wanted an investigation, just the announcement of one.
2. If this was serious, the DoJ would have led this and it would have been through proper channels.
3. The entire Republican narrative on this is a lie.

that's not ukraine doing it or deciding our president.

No, that's Ukraine doing Trump a personal political favor benefiting his campaign that is not in the national interest.

[Benggaul]

"Derp" indeed. Witness the breed of willful ignorance we're forced to attempt meaningful discourse with.

[shimerra]

While Trump definitely deserves it, charging people with crimes after they leave office is a dangerous precedent. It's why Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There was a bunch of pending civil and criminal litigation pending against him, but he couldn't be charged as long as he was a proconsul. His term was about to expire and marching his armies on Rome was the only way he could stay out of prison.

And he's hardly the only example of a leader in world history who has stayed in power even unconstitutionally just to avoid prosecution.

This is why it's so important to be able to hold politicians to account while they're still in office.

No it's not. Because the only reason why Trump isn't in office now is because of a stupid memo in the DOJ saying he can't/ a few vague court cases being stretched to justify it. And that plays a role but doesn't mean it will have the same deleterious consequences Cesar opted for.

Case in point Netenyahu tried to get immunity while he was in office and was denied but had he got it all it would've done is kicked the can down the road until he was voted out. While I like the way the Israeli's handle it over just giving every president a blanket immunity in office there's no downside to charging him when he leaves office even if I agree he should be charged now.

[cubby]

The GOP seemed to say that "Yes, if the president does stab someone in broad daylight in front of everyone...we still don't care."

Or shoot someone in Times Square, and they still voted for him. Interesting how at least one campaign promise came true.