[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Rathfiler]

Not really, most people who hated Thatcher at the time of her death did so simply because they had been conditioned to do so. Usually because their parents made it clear they should or because the tabloid papers said so, or simply because they came from a region where it was "common knowledge" that she was evil, etc.

I.E I come from a part of Wales where most of the.... lets say people of lesser intellect, still believe she was evil and responsible for the local coal mine closing blah blah. In reality her policies were the reason the town improved as much as it did in the 80's, the coal mine was one of the ones she was trying to safeguard by closing the highly unprofitable mines (it's closure can be blamed 100% on the corrupt mining union boss who called the illegal strike, which ironically the tabloids blamed her for lol).

I find it ironic you criticize people of "lesser intellect" when it is patently obvious you have...what is the expression, round your way, "dogshit for brains". You get all your information from newspapers or television. You have a limited vocabulary, are incapable of secondary or tertiary logical reasoning, basically you are the living embodiment of Dunning-Krueger effect, like many pompous and intellectually vacuous Tories. You simply have no idea how stupid you are and that everyone around knows this to be true.

The decision to close the mines was one of pure spite. The issue as to whether the mines were unprofitable is irrelevant: farming for example has never been profitable and is still heavily subsidized. Manufacturing industry has been in almost permanent recession for decades. In that context it makes perfectly logical sense to subsidize coal indefinitely on the grounds of national security, since reliance on foreign energy is definitely a security risk, being a vital component of victory in WWII as farming was also.

But you know, feel free to come up with a counter-argument. But you won't, because, well, as we've established, you have dogshit for brains. So I can expect the usual two sentence dismissal borne of impotent rage and self-loathing, some comment about burners perhaps, some insults and some scoffing but nothing an eight-year old couldn't type. Knock yourself out.

[Elegiac]

let them celebrate over weekend, then reality will kick in.

found this gem:

Scotland, we're rooting for you!

[Elegiac]

The most hilarious part about all of this is if it actually ends up breaking apart the U.K

I mean we've seen the polls indicating quite a few English people think ending the UK is a reasonable price to pay for Brexit.

Just more evidence that they don't actually know what they want, they just know they want it and you're a tyrant if you try to clarify what they want.

[Zaydin]

Hope the Brexiteers are ready to get bent over a barrel in trade negotiations. They are in for a rude awakening if they think that a comparatively insignificant island nation has the same leverage as a block of 28 countries.

Enjoy shitty American chlorine washed chicken and say goodbye to your NHS if Boris gives Trump what Trump has demanded in his desperation to make a deal.

[Flarelaine]

Thatcher was the one that started the hate for Thatcher. This wasn't a group of random people suddenly deciding they didn't like her. This was her driving through a particular political philosophy that threw hatred in the faces of a large group of working people across a large part of the country. The fact it was subsequently reflected back at her is down to the fact that outside of a small group of Budhist monks, people can't just calmly absorb that stuff without it affecting them.

You are basically having a go at the dog that bit somebody that kept kicking them. I'm sorry, but my sympathy is reserved for the dog.

My argument about too much hate is not limited to Thatcher. Also the point is not that people should not hate her, although @caervek made a good point about that, too. The point is that hate should not be a reason to do things, especially for nations.

[Logwyn]

Brexit is a good example of why everything shouldn't just be a simple majority vote and some things should require a 66%-75% vote.

[Elegiac]

Brexit is a good example of why everything shouldn't just be a simple majority vote and some things should require a 66%-75% vote.

Or why reducing complex policies down to simple yes or no binaries is generally like...bad.

Relevant:

[Slant]

Happy Independence Day, Merry Brexit!

Enjoy it, Russian puppet. You've got to be the only country on the planet that celebrates Independence Day by throwing away their independence. Y'all gonna hate us for the upcoming year. Prepare your blame game. Bring it, I love the tears of Brexiteers.

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Exactly. Britain couldn't have made a stupider choice if they'd tried. This will bolster Scotland to leave and join the EU and tank Britain's economy.

Scotland has the problem that the EU wants Scotland to leave within the consitutional rules of the UK. And BoJo says nuh-uh to the whole party.

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Just gonna leave this here...

[Elegiac]

Just gonna leave this here...

-snip-

Aw man why you gotta hold them accountable for their blatant lies like that...

[Skulltaker]

Aw man why you gotta hold them accountable for their blatant lies like that...

If we'd hold politicians accountable for their lies there'd be no politicians. Whatsoever.

[Elegiac]

If we'd hold politicians accountable for their lies there'd be no politicians. Whatsoever.

At this point I consider the English public who repeat these lies equally as culpable.

[Crispin]

Yay Brexit day 1. Hurray for Britain paying their debt and be forced to follow EU rules without representation for the next 3 years (we all know they wont land a trade deal in 2 years).

[Acidbaron]

Or why reducing complex policies down to simple yes or no binaries is generally like...bad.

Relevant:

Great drawing saving that one

Brexit was a rather complex matter it did do one thing right, it showed that the EU is not transparent enough that people don't know well enough what the EU is and isn't. And efforts having been made since there is still plenty wrong but you fix it from within not shouting from the side lines that things are simply bad.

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Yay Brexit day 1. Hurray for Britain paying their debt and be forced to follow EU rules without representation for the next 3 years (we all know they wont land a trade deal in 2 years).

If the same people are in control of the negotiations correct assessment and we all know they are, i do not envy those on the EU side of the table, if i were Verhofstadt i would consider going on an early retirement to be honest, Belgian politics are a hot mess but this is going to be vastly more frustrating to deal with.

[zealo]

Scotland has the problem that the EU wants Scotland to leave within the consitutional rules of the UK. And BoJo says nuh-uh to the whole party.

They can also expect Spain to veto them if they go about it unilaterally.

They're not about to do something that will have Catalonia ask why they're not blocking it when they'd do it to them.

[Gorsameth]

The most hilarious part about all of this is if it actually ends up breaking apart the U.K

I would argue it already has. The hard border in the Irish Sea has for all intents and purposes places Northern Ireland outside the UK.

[ati87]

Great drawing saving that one

Brexit was a rather complex matter it did do one thing right, it showed that the EU is not transparent enough that people don't know well enough what the EU is and isn't. And efforts having been made since there is still plenty wrong but you fix it from within not shouting from the side lines that things are simply bad.

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If the same people are in control of the negotiations correct assessment and we all know they are, i do not envy those on the EU side of the table, if i were Verhofstadt i would consider going on an early retirement to be honest, Belgian politics are a hot mess but this is going to be vastly more frustrating to deal with.

I don't want to EU to spend time on propaganda, that's not the job that of the people we send to Brussels.
Everybody of every national government god dam know the benefits of having the EU, even the likes of Johnson and farage know the benefits outweigh any small cost.
It's the job of the national government to inform people of what the EU does, only in the case of the UK you had the governing party put personal power ahead of country.

[Fkiolaris]

Brexit was a rather complex matter it did do one thing right, it showed that the EU is not transparent enough that people don't know well enough what the EU is and isn't. And efforts having been made since there is still plenty wrong but you fix it from within not shouting from the side lines that things are simply bad.

I am sorry mate, but I completely disagree. I have had numerous arguments with colleagues and friends where they were asking "oh how do I know this or that or the other about EU?" in anger, and the simple answer to all those questions was "fucking google it". These are people that can tell you what thong their Love Island favourite was wearing yesterday at 14:59 and 35 seconds or what their favourite footballer's playlist is on a Monday at the morning training session, but to use the internet to just answer their own questions about the EU? Preposterous!

What Brexit showed is that discussions based on facts and logic are not happening in the last decade or so, it's all about the emotions. Build enough reserve of one type of emotion (anger works best) on one specific topic (usually against someone or something that can be easily identified as "not you"), and if you unleash it at the right time you get delightful scenarios like Brexit. Facts and clarity are irrelevant.

[Acidbaron]

I don't want to EU to spend time on propaganda, that's not the job that of the people we send to Brussels.
Everybody of every national government god dam know the benefits of having the EU, even the likes of Johnson and farage know the benefits outweigh any small cost.
It's the job of the national government to inform people of what the EU does, only in the case of the UK you had the governing party put personal power ahead of country.

Propaganda is not the term i would use when simply informing the people what the EU does, with so many media outlets attacking it does the EU not have the right to defend itself on any level? Should it forever be a one way street where it is demonized and misinformation is spread?

Sites like this do not consume large segments of important meetings, https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...eu-in-brief_en
I dislike this kind of thinking in general, where there is some sort of believe if politics is occupied with one thing everything is is grinded to a halt, that is not how things work that is how politics of no importance on social media works, where one fad over takes the other.

So i respect your choice to disagree, but i do find it very important to highlight what it is good for simply due to the aggressive attacks on the EU.

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I am sorry mate, but I completely disagree. I have had numerous arguments with colleagues and friends where they were asking "oh how do I know this or that or the other about EU?" in anger, and the simple answer to all those questions was "fucking google it". These are people that can tell you what thong their Love Island favourite was wearing yesterday at 14:59 and 35 seconds or what their favourite footballer's playlist is on a Monday at the morning training session, but to use the internet to just answer their own questions about the EU? Preposterous!

What Brexit showed is that discussions based on facts and logic are not happening in the last decade or so, it's all about the emotions. Build enough reserve of one type of emotion (anger works best) on one specific topic (usually against someone or something that can be easily identified as "not you"), and if you unleash it at the right time you get delightful scenarios like Brexit. Facts and clarity are irrelevant.

I respect your right to disagree but more of what i said in my previous reply, the image of the EU is not something people discovered on their own it is an image created by those who would benefit from destabilizing the EU and seeing it fall back into the realm of pre WW2 era. Therefore i believe when there is an assault in progress we need a line of defence to counter the misinformation.

Brexit is a different beast because the EU has for as long i can remember and i am in my thirties, the official scapegoat for everything bad in the EU to distract people from failed national politics. NHS IS FAILING? not our fault it is the EU etc etc. You will see this tactic employed even more now things are going to finally start to fall apart in the coming years, why? Because it works and because people have been conditioned and because a large segment of the press sell this lie.

[Kiri]

I am sorry mate, but I completely disagree. I have had numerous arguments with colleagues and friends where they were asking "oh how do I know this or that or the other about EU?" in anger, and the simple answer to all those questions was "fucking google it". These are people that can tell you what thong their Love Island favourite was wearing yesterday at 14:59 and 35 seconds or what their favourite footballer's playlist is on a Monday at the morning training session, but to use the internet to just answer their own questions about the EU? Preposterous!

What Brexit showed is that discussions based on facts and logic are not happening in the last decade or so, it's all about the emotions. Build enough reserve of one type of emotion (anger works best) on one specific topic (usually against someone or something that can be easily identified as "not you"), and if you unleash it at the right time you get delightful scenarios like Brexit. Facts and clarity are irrelevant.

Exactly. No amount of transparency will matter if people don't want to be informed. The biggest problem is that most people these days just don't want to truly understand complex issues and relationships, they want easy to digest soundbytes and will not question them if they align with preconceived notions. Case in point, many Brexiteers still believe the 350m lie, no matter how transparently it was debunked.

[Mayhem]

They can also expect Spain to veto them if they go about it unilaterally.

They're not about to do something that will have Catalonia ask why they're not blocking it when they'd do it to them.

Different things are different things. Catalonia is not its own country within a collection of countries, Scotland is.