Is Tyrande the diva no one really takes seriously?

[Moonrage]

Your lore knowledge on the other hand is just stellar. Starting with the part about three wars. Which indicates you don't even know something as basic as the fact that during the First War there was no Alliance for the High Elves to give their blood to. Hell, no one even really knew what was going on in Stormwind because the invasion was rather fast. And no Dwarves were giving blood either because, again, the First War was between the Old Horde and Stormwind alone, with Alliance being created only as a response to the Orcs winning that war.

Speaking of which, the High Elves were forced to join the Alliance by Lothar invoking the 3000 years old promise to aid the descendants of the Arathi bloodline, of which he was the last. And they didn't just sit and watch, they were fighting the Amani Trolls that allied with the Horde.

The High Elves only sent a small token army to aid against the Horde. It wasn't until the Horde had burned down their borders that they gave their full support. The Elves even had the audacity to blame the humans for the burning of their forests after the War. Seems like they forgot that their kingdom would've been in ruins were it not for the Humans that gave their lives to defend it during the Troll Wars.

And by the time of the Third War they were no longer in the Alliance so we're back to how they didn't have any obligations towards the humans at that time. They rejoined only after the Scourge already successfully invaded Quel'Thalas. Without "blaming it on the humans". Your claims about Alliance reorganizing High Elves and High Elves expecting the humans to do their jobs for them and fix everything are utter nonsense. And Garithos deliberately sent them on a suicidal mission they couldn't have fulfilled. And they teamed up with Nagas in order to survive.

They abandoned the Alliance after the Second War. After all the Humans had done for them, they withdrew their support when it no longer benefited them. The humans have helped the High Elves out countless times in the past, and this is the thanks they get for it.

They didn't bother helping out during the Third War because they didn't think the Scouge would ever breach their borders. They thought wrong, and came crawling back to the humans for support after they had previously abandoned them.

As for Garithos, he was a flawed human being. Yes he was extremely racist towards the Elves, but you have to remember his entire family was murdered by the Orcs while he was defending Quel'Thalas during the Second War. In his mind, it's the fault of the Elves his family was killed.

To conclude, the High Elves have proven time and time again that they are selfish, untrustworthy and ungrateful allies.

[UmbraPhoenix]

The majority of the High Elves completely abandoned the Alliance after the Second War. Only a few in Dalaran stuck with the Alliance. So yeah, the current Blood Elves and former High Elves are hypocrites (in other news, water is wet).

Fuck you. Thr blood elves are definitely not hypocrites. First of all, withdrawing from the alliance was their right as a sovereign nation. Second of all, Arthas and the necromancers who followed him, were human. The horde never managed to find a way through Ban'dinoriel, it was humans who did, so the elves had plenty of reason to hate humans at that point. Then add Garithos treatment of elves, and don't give me his family was killed bullshit, he choose where to fight, it wasn't the fault of the elves. He mistreated Kael and his warriors despite them being probably the best troops in his host, and when he wrongfully imprisoned them for accepting aid from the naga, wrongful because Garithos has no issues making a deal with the undead, dalaran upheld the imprisonment, and would have executed them. The blood elves have every right to hate the alliance.

Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

The High Elves only sent a small token army to aid against the Horde. It wasn't until the Horde had burned down their borders that they gave their full support. The Elves even had the audacity to blame the humans for the burning of their forests after the War. Seems like they forgot that their kingdom would've been in ruins were it not for the Humans that gave their lives to defend it during the Troll Wars.

Can't recall denying they sent a token force south. And please, the cooperation during the Troll Wars was mutually beneficial. Without siding together the Trolls would have wiped both sides individually. And as I already said they didn't forget that because this is precisely what the humans used to get them into the Alliance.

They abandoned the Alliance after the Second War. After all the Humans had done for them, they withdrew their support when it no longer benefited them.

They withdrew their support when Lothar bit the dust and their obligation to the line of Arathor from the Troll wars that the humans had to coin in to get them into the Alliance in the first place was no longer valid. And they're not even the only ones that left the Alliance after the Second War.

The humans have helped the High Elves out countless times in the past, and this is the thanks they get for it.

Name those countless times in the past.

They didn't bother helping out during the Third War because they didn't think the Scouge would ever breach their borders. They thought wrong, and came crawling back to the humans for support after they had previously abandoned them.

Except for the part where other than Stratholme that Arthas purged, the Scourge wasn't a threat in the EK until Arthas returned and took everyone by surprise, leaving no time for anyone to properly react.

As for Garithos, he was a flawed human being. Yes he was extremely racist towards the Elves, but you have to remember his entire family was murdered by the Orcs while he was defending Quel'Thalas during the Second War. In his mind, it's the fault of the Elves his family was killed.

Nothing in Garithos' back story included him defending Quel'Thalas. He merely blamed the High Elves because racism. Weirdly enough you condemn some High Elves blaming humans for the massive army of Orcs that crawled into their lands because a human kindgom let them pass north. So nice double standard you got here.

[Varodoc]

Fuck you. Thr blood elves are definitely not hypocrites. First of all, withdrawing from the alliance was their right as a sovereign nation. Second of all, Arthas and the necromancers who followed him, were human. The horde never managed to find a way through Ban'dinoriel, it was humans who did, so the elves had plenty of reason to hate humans at that point. Then add Garithos treatment of elves, and don't give me his family was killed bullshit, he choose where to fight, it wasn't the fault of the elves. He mistreated Kael and his warriors despite them being probably the best troops in his host, and when he wrongfully imprisoned them for accepting aid from the naga, wrongful because Garithos has no issues making a deal with the undead, dalaran upheld the imprisonment, and would have executed them. The blood elves have every right to hate the alliance.

Small correction, it was not the humans who invaded Quel'thalas but the undead. Arthas was the champion of the Lich King, leader of the Undead Scourge.

[Moonrage]

Fuck you. Thr blood elves are definitely not hypocrites. First of all, withdrawing from the alliance was their right as a sovereign nation. Second of all, Arthas and the necromancers who followed him, were human. The horde never managed to find a way through Ban'dinoriel, it was humans who did, so the elves had plenty of reason to hate humans at that point. Then add Garithos treatment of elves, and don't give me his family was killed bullshit, he choose where to fight, it wasn't the fault of the elves. He mistreated Kael and his warriors despite them being probably the best troops in his host, and when he wrongfully imprisoned them for accepting aid from the naga, wrongful because Garithos has no issues making a deal with the undead, dalaran upheld the imprisonment, and would have executed them. The blood elves have every right to hate the alliance.

It was their right, it just made them seem like absolute jackasses. They abandoned the Alliance after all they did for them. The humans never found a way through Ban'Dinoriel, Arthas and the Scourge did, and they only found it because of a Dar'Khan Drathir, who betrayed his own people.

And yeah, Garithos was a douche and a racist but he was only one human. Do you even understand his reasoning? The Elves abandoned the Alliance after the Second War and then only helped out during the Third War when their own homeland was raided.

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Can't recall denying they sent a token force south. And please, the cooperation during the Troll Wars was mutually beneficial. Without siding together the Trolls would have wiped both sides individually. And as I already said they didn't forget that because this is precisely what the humans used to get them into the Alliance.

They only sent a small token army and only bothered to truly upkeep their promise when their own homeland was under attack. And where is it stated that the Forest Trolls would've wiped out both sides if they hadn't worked together? The Forest Trolls just wanted to reclaim their homeland. They had no interest in lands of the Humans.

They withdrew their support when Lothar bit the dust and their obligation to the line of Arathor from the Troll wars that the humans had to coin in to get them into the Alliance in the first place was no longer valid. And they're not even the only ones that left the Alliance after the Second War.

They were in their right to leave the Alliance, but it still made them massive assholes. They used the Alliance and abandoned them when it no longer benefited them. Which makes them very untrustworthy and selfish "allies".

Name those countless times in the past.

The Troll Wars, which would've wiped out the High Elves completely if it weren't for the humans. And the Second War, where the Elves only sent their full support after the Horde had already burned their borders.

Except for the part where other than Stratholme that Arthas purged, the Scourge wasn't a threat in the EK until Arthas returned and took everyone by surprise, leaving no time for anyone to properly react.

They still crawled back to the humans for support after the Scourge had invaded Quel'Thalas, even after they had abandoned them after the Second War.

Nothing in Garithos' back story included him defending Quel'Thalas. He merely blamed the High Elves because racism. Weirdly enough you condemn some High Elves blaming humans for the massive army of Orcs that crawled into their lands because a human kindgom let them pass north. So nice double standard you got here.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Othmar_Garithos It's literally on his wowpedia page. And where is it stated the humans let the Orcs pass?? Show me please, because you're just making stuff up at this point.

[UmbraPhoenix]

Small correction, it was not the humans who invaded Quel'thalas but the undead. Arthas was the champion of the Lich King, leader of the Undead Scourge.

God, reading comprehension is awful. No, it was not the human nations. However, Arthas, and all the necromancers and acolytes who served him, were ALL still living humans. Nobody knew about the lich king yet. To the elves, it would have seemed as if the undead were being controlled by humans, in particular the prince of lordaeron.

[Combatbutler]

They only sent a small token army and only bothered to truly upkeep their promise when their own homeland was under attack. And where is it stated that the Forest Trolls would've wiped out both sides if they hadn't worked together? The Forest Trolls just wanted to reclaim their homeland. They had no interest in lands of the Humans.

The trolls intended to rebuild their empires and were at war with the humans from the get go, the humans only banded together, because the trolls were a threat for them. The trolls had every intention to wipe out humans and other craven races on their land, never forget every scrap of human territory today was at one point troll land.

They were in their right to leave the Alliance, but it still made them massive assholes. They used the Alliance and abandoned them when it no longer benefited them. Which makes them very untrustworthy and selfish "allies".

It was more the other way around, the elves honored their agreements each and every time and actually send help when they were not obligated to do so, no other kingdom did so, humans were far more prone to betray and abandon each other, alterrac turned on their allies, Gilneas was willing to let them all burn, Stormwind send no soldier during the third war, and had been abandoned by all the other human kingdoms during the gnoll wars, being pretty much told yeah go die in a ditch as they send pleas for help north.

The Troll Wars, which would've wiped out the High Elves completely if it weren't for the humans. And the Second War, where the Elves only sent their full support after the Horde had already burned their borders.

The trolls were intent to wipe out all who stood in their way of their resurgent empire, which included humans who were living on ancient troll land as well. The elves were just the first target.

They still crawled back to the humans for support after the Scourge had invaded Quel'Thalas, even after they had abandoned them after the Second War.

Absolutely wrong, they supported the humans during the third war and actually went there fighting in human lands after their kingdom had been lain to waste, instead of primarily focusing on their ruined land.

[DemonHunter18]

ah typical thread where it turns into Ally vs Horde zone.


any chance Sylvanas will be mentioned as well???

[Ardenaso]

Absolutely wrong, they supported the humans during the third war and actually went there fighting in human lands after their kingdom had been lain to waste, instead of primarily focusing on their ruined land.

It's stated in the WC3 manual that the High Elves officially left the Alliance and on the wowpedia, Anasterian made a decree for all the High Elves to come home. The High Elves in WC3 were commissioned by the Kirin Tor and the Silver Hand. That's why there wasn't any High Elf Farstrider in the Alliance of Lordaeron by then. And the High Elves in Dalaran were measly supporting their second home as the first one was already gone and Kael'thas and Rommath was on his way to come back there.

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Would you look at that, the High Elves who remained with the Alliance are those who actually assisted them in the Second and Third War, as well as Arthas' campaign against the Lordaeron Scourge and Stratholme. They have a good reason to lick Alliance boots at least.

And like 90% of the Blood Elves today are the same Elves who chose to shy away in Quel'thalas in the Second War (other than Kael'thas and Lor'themar but they had a people to lead) and those who refused to help Lordaeron when they were being Scourged. Then color me surprised when suddenly "Where was the Alliance when we needed them?" when they're all mostly gone or too far away by then. Blood Elves are total hypocrites.

I don't think this needs to be repeated more than once

[Combatbutler]

It's stated in the WC3 manual that the High Elves officially left the Alliance and on the wowpedia, Anasterian made a decree for all the High Elves to come home. The High Elves in WC3 were commissioned by the Kirin Tor and the Silver Hand. That's why there wasn't any High Elf Farstrider in the Alliance of Lordaeron by then. And the High Elves in Dalaran were measly supporting their second home as the first one was already gone and Kael'thas and Rommath was on his way to come back there.

Which is old lore, they sent official military aid during the third war, despite no longer being members of the Alliance, it is in chronicle.

[Ardenaso]

Fuck you. Thr blood elves are definitely not hypocrites. First of all, withdrawing from the alliance was their right as a sovereign nation.
Infracted.

>High Elves were right to leave the Alliance
>Where was the Alliance when the High Elves needed them?

topkek

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Which is old lore, they sent official military aid during the third war, despite no longer being members of the Alliance

Yeah, Anasterian sent in a cadre of Priests (and probably Paladins) to Lordaeron after Terenas was murdered by Arthas. That's it.

[Combatbutler]

Yeah, Anasterian sent in a cadre of Priests (and probably Paladins) to Lordaeron after Terenas was murdered by Arthas. That's it.

And? Which is military help is it not, they were not obligated to do anything and they still did, no other non aligned kingdom did anything of the sort. Gilneas outright ignored pleas for help, the night elves knew shit was going down in the eastern kingdoms, but chose not to bother with it, because their vigil did not extend that far. Even some of the Alliance members did not send a single soldier.

[Ardenaso]

And? Which is military help is it not, they were not obligated to do anything and they still did, no other non aligned kingdom did anything of the sort.

Stromgarde and Gilneas (though a rebel force) both sent brigades to Kalimdor; if you think the High Elves didn't have any obligation then stop with the "where was the Alliance huhu"

Gilneas outright ignored pleas for help, the night elves knew shit was going down in the eastern kingdoms, but chose not to bother with it, because their vigil did not extend that far.

Yeah Gilneas was an asshole but eventually its relationship with the Alliance lightened up and Varian and Genn's relationship didn't sail overnight. I admire the High Elves who did the same. The Night Elves didn't even know of their existence.

Even some of the Alliance members did not send a single soldier.

Apparently in the Reforged chapter, some Human Archmagi came to help Silvermoon (and so it's a combination of Human and Elven Archmagi). But that's probably a retcon/oversight/inconsistency I think

10 characters

[BB8]

I like Tyrande, she seems like the perfect leader for the night elves.

[Ardenaso]

I like Tyrande, she seems like the perfect leader for the night elves.

if only they bring back the WC3 Tyrande. Oh Elune that "A Little Patience" still haunts me

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I'm more concerned about her shoes, how does she stalk the wilds with those? They'd sink into the ground!

[Moonrage]

The trolls intended to rebuild their empires and were at war with the humans from the get go, the humans only banded together, because the trolls were a threat for them. The trolls had every intention to wipe out humans and other craven races on their land, never forget every scrap of human territory today was at one point troll land.

Fair enough, but my point still stands. The Elves would have been completely eradicated if it weren't for the help of the humans.

It was more the other way around, the elves honored their agreements each and every time and actually send help when they were not obligated to do so, no other kingdom did so, humans were far more prone to betray and abandon each other, alterrac turned on their allies, Gilneas was willing to let them all burn, Stormwind send no soldier during the third war, and had been abandoned by all the other human kingdoms during the gnoll wars, being pretty much told yeah go die in a ditch as they send pleas for help north.

As I said before, they only sent a small token army to help. They only pledged their full support to the War when their own nation was threatened. And Quel'Thalas was the first kingdom to leave the Alliance, the others just followed their example.

The trolls were intent to wipe out all who stood in their way of their resurgent empire, which included humans who were living on ancient troll land as well. The elves were just the first target.

Again, the High Elves needed the help of the humans, were it not for them, they would've been completely wiped out by the Forest Trolls. The High Elves owe their very existence to the humans.

Absolutely wrong, they supported the humans during the third war and actually went there fighting in human lands after their kingdom had been lain to waste, instead of primarily focusing on their ruined land.

The only Elves that supported humanity during the Third War were the magi of Dalaran. Quel'Thalas had left the Alliance at this point. Only after their kingdom had been ravaged by the Scourge did they rejoin the Alliance.

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I don't think this needs to be repeated more than once

I swear, people will go to insane lengths to defend the Blood/High Elves.

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I'm more concerned about her shoes, how does she stalk the wilds with those? They'd sink into the ground!

She doesn't wear heels anymore though.

[Kithelle]

All true. But you don't even have to use the argument that the living fear the undead and had no reason to trust Sylvanas. There's an even more immediate reason. Sylvanas just slaughtered Garithos and his entire army, which was funded by Ironforge (an Alliance nation). With this act, she destroyed the last remnant of the Alliance of Lordaeron. Had she been smart, she would've kept Garithos around as bargaining chip with Stormwind. Alas Sylvanas was never smart, she's arrogant and careless.

Which makes me laugh when some people think she is playing 5D chess...she was typically sloppy and impulsive, a lot of things just fell in her lap

[Varodoc]

Which makes me laugh when some people think she is playing 5D chess...she was typically sloppy and impulsive, a lot of things just fell in her lap

I have come to the conclusion that people who claim she is some 5d genius haven't played WC3, where she literally lets Arthas get away (Arthas being the second most important member of the Scourge -- the faction that controls Lordaeron and Sylvanas hates) because she had to deliver her generic evil monologue.

[Feanoro]

“Something Vimes had learned as a young guard drifted up from memory. If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.

They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.

So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”

From "Men at Arms". (If you don't know Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, quit wasting time on this forum and go read them!)