Theory: Sylvanas knows Yogg-Saron is the Secret Evil Overlord of the Shadowlands

[Deventh]

Hello everyone! This is going to be a long post, so if you want to TL;DR, it's at the bottom.

So, as I've come back to WoW in 8.3, I've spent some time pondering Sylvanas' motives, both long-term (As far back as Wrath) and short-term (Her actions as Warchief in BfA and her actions to open the Shadowlands to Azeroth). Sylvanas is too popular of a character, both with the greater fanbase and with the dev team (I know many of you will disagree with the former, but I think it's hard to ignore how much the greater WoW community likes her) for her to come out as the ultimate villain in this expansion. In fact, there's been some general speculation that she's doing what she's been doing for a greater purpose. The fact that those players who chose to side with her continue her storyline after abandoning the Horde bolsters this idea, and I think we will see this storyline play out in Shadowlands, ultimately showing that these players chose correctly in the long term.

Now, just to point out, I am nota Sylvanas fan, and I ultimately chose Saurfang in game, but I think this would make sense, given her actions and where Blizzard seems to be taking her story.

Ultimately, I believe this started, as many of you may as well, with her Edge of Night story post-Wrath. Although we didn't know it at the time, I think it is clear now that the dark, scary "hell" Sylvanas went to after killing herself was the Maw. Considering the Maw is meant to those who are completely irredeemable, I think it's hard to argue that Sylvanas deserved this fate at this point in her career. She openly fought the Lich King, although her hand in the Battle of the Wrathgate likely meant she warranted something like Kael'thas received: a "Purgatory"-like Realm, either Revendreath or Maldraxxus. I'd argue this is evidence that the mechanism of Death broke in Wrath as we know Kael'thas, who died late-TBC, went to Revendreath while Illidan went to Helheim. There are only two events that could have caused this in Wrath: the death of Yogg-Saron or the death of Arthas.

However, there are two points that, I think, refute that it was Arthas' death, and several points that bolster that it was Yogg-Saron's death that caused this. The first is that Sylvanas saw Arthas in Edge of Night as a scared little boy. Why would he be there, scared and a child, if it were his death that broke the mechanism of the Shadowlands? The other is the eerie quote by King Terenas to Arthas in his final moment "No King Rules Forever". Yogg-Saron says this almost exact same thing during his encounter in the Brain Room with Arthas and Bolvar: "He will learn... no king rules forever; only death is eternal!". This seems to point to the idea that King Terenas' spirit was corrupted by Yogg-Saron at this point in time. Blizzard mentioning that there was meant to be an explicit connection between the Lich King and Yogg-Saron, although it may have been too subtle for players would support this idea.

As for what hints that Yogg-Saron's death caused this, there are quite a few. First, his titles: The Beast of a Thousand Maws and the God of Death. The first has an obvious connection with the Maw while the latter has an obvious allusion to his power over Death, even though he shows no mastery of necromancy in Wrath. This is further bolstered by his "Only death is eternal!" quote, an obvious allusion to death and the afterlife. There are also other quotes that point to Yogg-Saron having an influence in the afterlife. These include a whisper in Whisper Gulch in Howling Fjord "There is no escape. Not in this life, not in the next.", which is ominous and self-evident. The Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron has two quotes that are relevant, including "Even death may die" and "All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured.", both of which point to the possibility of Yogg corrupting the afterlife. Finally, another two quotes that may be relevant is one quote Yogg says during the Garona/King Llane encounter in his Brain room "A thousand deaths... or one murder." and "Your petty quarrels only make me stronger.". Both could imply that all deaths empower him.

Finally, there's a couple moves that Yogg has made over the eons that also could imply that he has power in the Shadowlands. The first is that he has corrupted an alternate reality before: he created the Emerald Nightmare in the Emerald Dream before N'Zoth took control of the corruption post-Yogg's death. The other is the fact that Icecrown Citadel was made of living Saronite, and we now know it is a mirror to Torghast, Tower of the Damned. That seems deliberate in hindsight.

So, if all of these things tie into Yogg-Saron, essentially, being released through his death to corrupt the Shadowlands, what does this have to do with Sylvanas? Sylvanas' primary motive, from her inception to Arthas' death, was to get revenge against Arthas. Once completed, she committed suicide, which, eerily, was on to a spike of Saronite. Her death and her experience in "The Maw" gave her a new purpose. First was to prolong her unlife through the Val'kyr. The next was her eagerness to join Garrosh's war in Cataclysm, to kill as many as possible using the Blight. After that are her actions as Warchief, and more specifically, her actions to save the Forsaken in Stormheim in order to spare them death. Finally, there are her actions in BfA, beginning with the Burning of Teldrassil, to cause as much death as possible, even welcoming the death caused by N'Zoth and the Black Empire. Furthermore, we know she has grown significantly more powerful using an unknown form of Death magic. Why would she try to kill as many as possible, condemning them to the Maw, and try to save the Forsaken? Both the feed the power and grow the army of her patron, the Jailer, and to save the Forsaken from having to fight the the war in the afterlife. She, of course, eventually gives up on that goal, focusing on continuing to kill as many as possible.

What's the Jailer's motive in all of this? This is mostly speculation, but I think it fits with the above. I think his title is literal, and as we know he is an extremely old entity, has likely been in this role for eons. His purpose is to be the Jailer of the Damned in the Maw. His goal isn't to escape, but rather, to contain the evils of the Maw. However, when Yogg-Saron died and came to the Maw, he was overwhelmed and sought help. That help came in the form of Sylvanas, and he told her to kill as many as possible to bolster his army in the Maw to fight Yogg-Saron (Who was also growing more powerful by devouring souls in the Maw), and in exchange, he would give her enough power to destroy the Helm of Domination, and opening the afterlife to the champions and armies of the living. That will lead to the plot of Shadowlands, where I think we will oppose Sylvanas and the Jailer (They may even be raid bosses) until we discover that Yogg-Saron was the ultimate Secret Evil Overlord and has been corrupting the Shadowlands since his death in Wrath. Sylvanas will have been right, without going "Kerrigan", as her methods will remain controversial.

TL;DR: Yogg-Saron's death caused his spirit to be released to corrupt the Shadowlands, Sylvanas found out about it in the Edge of Night short story, and she has been working against him, with the Jailer's help, ever since.

What do you all think? Am I reading too much into it? Or do you think all of these hints and connections are too hard ignore, like I do?

Good stuff. And Sylvanas haters are just jealous, that's all. You know I freaking hate Anduin, but I never publicly wished him to die or whatnot. I know he probably has some fans (how and why is beyond me). And I really, really hope Blizzard knows what they are doing even though I don't have much hope in recent times with storytelling on their part. But the fact they let the player choose to side with Sylvanas indicates she must have a secret motive to save everyone.

[AbalDarkwind]

My reasoning is that Blizzard themselves said so...

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296046....user-and-r-wow
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...e_danuser_and/

The Old Gods are "dead", though more might either come from the great dark, they could come back from their afterlife.

When Mortals die, they go to the Shadowlands. When Demons die, they're sent to the Nether. And when the Old Gods die, they're sent back to their masters in the Void.

Neither of the links you posted say that the Old Gods return to the Void. In fact, they're rather cagey about what happens to the Old Gods after death, and Alex Afrasiabi implies death isn't the end for them, just like it isn't the end for a lot of beings in Warcraft.

[Nerovar]

Also, this:

"Question: With BFA, we have the option to support Saurfang or Sylvanas. Do you feel like that was a success? Did that work out how you wanted? And might we be seeing more of that in Shadowlands?

"Answering: Steve Danuser

"We knew that when we were making Battle for Azeroth that it was going to be an expansion that tested people's feelings and loyalties. And again, putting these two sides against each other in a way that really hadn't been done to that degree in WoW yet, so far. And knowing that what we were doing with Sylvanas, where she was going into the Shadowlands, all this time, she's been doing these things in BfA because we knew where she was going to end up. It's hard when you can't yet connect the dots for people, you have to kind of set that trajectory in motion. So we knew that, well, it's going to look bad for Sylvanas; people are going to take some of this stuff wrong, but we have to stick to this."

^ Keep what I bolded out from the statement in mind...

Jesus Christ.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

My issue with that is that firstly they've said that the Old Gods are dead, and if they bring them back it'll be in the Void.

Secondly I think that ending 2 expansions in a row with an Old God would be a mistake, particularly when all the signs point towards the following expansion being Light and Shadow. The purple hentai fatigue will be real at that point.

[AbalDarkwind]

My issue with that is that firstly they've said that the Old Gods are dead, and if they bring them back it'll be in the Void.

Secondly I think that ending 2 expansions in a row with an Old God would be a mistake, particularly when all the signs point towards the following expansion being Light and Shadow. The purple hentai fatigue will be real at that point.

They said the Old Gods were dead, but we're dealing with an expansion all about the dead, so that still fits, especially considering we're taking about a being that called himself the God of Death. As for them coming back from the Void, that's not mentioned anywhere. All that is mentioned is that there could be another manifestation of the Old Gods (Danser said that) or they could be resurrected by a Herald of the Old Gods from the Great Dark (Afrasiabi said that). A manifestation of Yogg-Saron in the literal land of the dead would fit the former.

As for ending two expansions with Old Gods and the playerbase getting OG fatigue...yes, that's potentially possible and a good reason they may not do this. All I can do is present what possible connections I've found to Yogg, which I have.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I assume there is no place in the universe called the Void, if so it would be weird since that would be a perfect place to spit out Old Gods around the cosmos.

[Sentynel]

I think this is too intelligent for Blizzard's writing.

This. Blizzard is stuck at comic book level writing. They are not capable of producing anything more complicated than that.

[qwerty123456]

No. Sylvanas teamed up with Azshara, not N'Zoth, and Azshara aimed to kill N'Zoth using the dagger given to her by Sylvanas. Sylvanas just wanted more death; the death of N'Zoth was a bonus. She never intended, nor expected, N'Zoth to win.

She had no idea if Azshara was trustworthy or not or if she actually intended to betray N'Zoth.

[Raisei]

- snipping a bit to shorten -

Ultimately, I believe this started, as many of you may as well, with her Edge of Night story post-Wrath. Although we didn't know it at the time, I think it is clear now that the dark, scary "hell" Sylvanas went to after killing herself was the Maw. Considering the Maw is meant to those who are completely irredeemable, I think it's hard to argue that Sylvanas deserved this fate at this point in her career. She openly fought the Lich King, although her hand in the Battle of the Wrathgate likely meant she warranted something like Kael'thas received: a "Purgatory"-like Realm, either Revendreath or Maldraxxus. I'd argue this is evidence that the mechanism of Death broke in Wrath as we know Kael'thas, who died late-TBC, went to Revendreath while Illidan went to Helheim. There are only two events that could have caused this in Wrath: the death of Yogg-Saron or the death of Arthas.

Well, this is debateable. Sylvanas has done a lot more stuff at this point already. Before she got her free will back she assissted in the slaughter of her elven brothers and sisters for one and considering Arthas is damned to the Maw even though he was was controlled by the Lich King and Frostmourne during most of his worst crimes we have to assume that it might not even matter if you wanted to commit the crimes as long as it was your hand that did. Which would be quite unfair, but seems to be the case.
But even after Sylvanas got her free will back she used it with the single minded goal of her vengeance and for that she developed her new blight and tested it on innocent humans and even her own Forsaken. Not to mention that her entire character in Edge of Night is nothing short of a sociopath, that cares for nothing and no one but herself.
Maybe the Arbiter takes these things into account and saw that Sylvanas was actually irredeemable because she does have the capacity to feel remorse (which would be necessary for a Purgatory to have any effect) while Kael as stupidly evil as he is has been given a chance. Difficult to say really, some judgements of the Arbiter do not yet make sense to us.
There is also the possiblity that the Jailor is/was the Titan that governs Undeath and therefore he can simply pull all souls of undead to him in the Maw, that would explain both Arthas (who was not truely undead but also not alive anymore, he cut his own heart out after all) ans Sylvanas.

However, there are two points that, I think, refute that it was Arthas' death, and several points that bolster that it was Yogg-Saron's death that caused this. The first is that Sylvanas saw Arthas in Edge of Night as a scared little boy. Why would he be there, scared and a child, if it were his death that broke the mechanism of the Shadowlands? The other is the eerie quote by King Terenas to Arthas in his final moment "No King Rules Forever". Yogg-Saron says this almost exact same thing during his encounter in the Brain Room with Arthas and Bolvar: "He will learn... no king rules forever; only death is eternal!". This seems to point to the idea that King Terenas' spirit was corrupted by Yogg-Saron at this point in time. Blizzard mentioning that there was meant to be an explicit connection between the Lich King and Yogg-Saron, although it may have been too subtle for players would support this idea.

That child-form is all that is left of the real Arthas actually. You meet him in Icecrown under the alias Matthias Lenher (an anagram of Arthas Menethil) so it makes sense that it is that what was sent to the Maw. Arthas tried to rid himself of this piece but failed.
And yes there was a connection between the Lich King and Yogg in so far as that they are enemies. The Void cannot infect Undead for some reason (Icecrown is even made from Saronite, the hardened blood of Yogg, that drives everyone else insane) and Arthas was actually preparing to fight the Old Gods after he dealt with us. That was what his army was meant for

As for what hints that Yogg-Saron's death caused this, there are quite a few. First, his titles: The Beast of a Thousand Maws and the God of Death. The first has an obvious connection with the Maw while the latter has an obvious allusion to his power over Death, even though he shows no mastery of necromancy in Wrath. This is further bolstered by his "Only death is eternal!" quote, an obvious allusion to death and the afterlife. There are also other quotes that point to Yogg-Saron having an influence in the afterlife. These include a whisper in Whisper Gulch in Howling Fjord "There is no escape. Not in this life, not in the next.", which is ominous and self-evident. The Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron has two quotes that are relevant, including "Even death may die" and "All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured.", both of which point to the possibility of Yogg corrupting the afterlife. Finally, another two quotes that may be relevant is one quote Yogg says during the Garona/King Llane encounter in his Brain room "A thousand deaths... or one murder." and "Your petty quarrels only make me stronger.". Both could imply that all deaths empower him.

Finally, there's a couple moves that Yogg has made over the eons that also could imply that he has power in the Shadowlands. The first is that he has corrupted an alternate reality before: he created the Emerald Nightmare in the Emerald Dream before N'Zoth took control of the corruption post-Yogg's death. The other is the fact that Icecrown Citadel was made of living Saronite, and we now know it is a mirror to Torghast, Tower of the Damned. That seems deliberate in hindsight.

I am actually quite convinced that Yogg was just giving himself the title of "God of Death". If we know one thing about the Old Gods it is that they love to talk, endlessly and sometimes in riddles and they enjoy to resort to "bluster" as Azshara calls it. The truth is that they are little more then machines made from flesh, growing tumors with strong mental powers. None of them is actually a "God", despite their claims.

So, if all of these things tie into Yogg-Saron, essentially, being released through his death to corrupt the Shadowlands, what does this have to do with Sylvanas? Sylvanas' primary motive, from her inception to Arthas' death, was to get revenge against Arthas. Once completed, she committed suicide, which, eerily, was on to a spike of Saronite. Her death and her experience in "The Maw" gave her a new purpose. First was to prolong her unlife through the Val'kyr. The next was her eagerness to join Garrosh's war in Cataclysm, to kill as many as possible using the Blight. After that are her actions as Warchief, and more specifically, her actions to save the Forsaken in Stormheim in order to spare them death.

Still pretty convinced her goal in Stormheim was to have endless Val'kyr for her own use. I doubt she would sacrifice them for the Forsaken even then.

Finally, there are her actions in BfA, beginning with the Burning of Teldrassil, to cause as much death as possible, even welcoming the death caused by N'Zoth and the Black Empire. Furthermore, we know she has grown significantly more powerful using an unknown form of Death magic. Why would she try to kill as many as possible, condemning them to the Maw, and try to save the Forsaken? Both the feed the power and grow the army of her patron, the Jailer, and to save the Forsaken from having to fight the the war in the afterlife. She, of course, eventually gives up on that goal, focusing on continuing to kill as many as possible.

What's the Jailer's motive in all of this? This is mostly speculation, but I think it fits with the above. I think his title is literal, and as we know he is an extremely old entity, has likely been in this role for eons. His purpose is to be the Jailer of the Damned in the Maw. His goal isn't to escape, but rather, to contain the evils of the Maw. However, when Yogg-Saron died and came to the Maw, he was overwhelmed and sought help. That help came in the form of Sylvanas, and he told her to kill as many as possible to bolster his army in the Maw to fight Yogg-Saron (Who was also growing more powerful by devouring souls in the Maw), and in exchange, he would give her enough power to destroy the Helm of Domination, and opening the afterlife to the champions and armies of the living. That will lead to the plot of Shadowlands, where I think we will oppose Sylvanas and the Jailer (They may even be raid bosses) until we discover that Yogg-Saron was the ultimate Secret Evil Overlord and has been corrupting the Shadowlands since his death in Wrath. Sylvanas will have been right, without going "Kerrigan", as her methods will remain controversial.

TL;DR: Yogg-Saron's death caused his spirit to be released to corrupt the Shadowlands, Sylvanas found out about it in the Edge of Night short story, and she has been working against him, with the Jailer's help, ever since.

What do you all think? Am I reading too much into it? Or do you think all of these hints and connections are too hard ignore, like I do?

I think there was a dev talk about the Old Gods not going to the Shadowlands, like normal souls, but otherwise it is an interesting take.

I just don't think that Yogg was ever this powerful, he is just a tool of the Void Lords after all and much weaker then the Titans and I personally think that the Jailor is or was a Titan, maybe the "father" of the Pantheon that was imprisoned in the Shadowlands by his children for some reason. So I doubt he would have trouble dealing with that little Old God.

Good stuff. And Sylvanas haters are just jealous, that's all. You know I freaking hate Anduin, but I never publicly wished him to die or whatnot. I know he probably has some fans (how and why is beyond me). And I really, really hope Blizzard knows what they are doing even though I don't have much hope in recent times with storytelling on their part. But the fact they let the player choose to side with Sylvanas indicates she must have a secret motive to save everyone.

Hardly jealous of following a mass murderer. You can have her all for yourself.
And people want her dead because she is an evil mass murdering monster with no redeeming qualities and no remorse, that is very reasonable, especially if you play a Night Elf or Worgen.
No idea what Anduin has done to you to hate him but I doubt it is even remotely enough to want him dead for it. Probably gonna be something along the lines of "He destroyed the Horde and made Baine Warchief" which is just nonesense.

[Powerogue]

The fact that those players who chose to side with her continue her storyline after abandoning the Horde bolsters this idea, and I think we will see this storyline play out in Shadowlands, ultimately showing that these players chose correctly in the long term.

I played both, and I think this is wrong and ridiculous. I don't think we're getting any more loyalist content, and the finale was supposed to be the nail in the coffin for any further reason to support her. Not just in abandoning the Horde, but then admitting to your face every evil thing she's been implied to have done throughout the expansion, like help release N'zoth.

gullible player: But surely that cutscene with you leading us into Azshara's domain and then our azerite weapons manufacturer winding up in their hands was all part of the plan, right?
Sylvanas: Yes, the evil plan to release N'zoth and kill you all, after which my death buds will mop up the pieces and take over. Genius, right?

[GreenJesus]

Yogg Saron is dead and he isn't a literal "God of Death". Don't take old god boss voicelines meant to belittle the player and instill fear literally and come up with connections that aren't there.

- - - Updated - - -

My reasoning is that Blizzard themselves said so...

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296046....user-and-r-wow
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...e_danuser_and/

The Old Gods are "dead", though more might either come from the great dark, they could come back from their afterlife.

When Mortals die, they go to the Shadowlands. When Demons die, they're sent to the Nether. And when the Old Gods die, they're sent back to their masters in the Void.

- - - Updated - - -



It really is a shit story.

- - - Updated - - -
@Nerovar

Also, this:

"Question: With BFA, we have the option to support Saurfang or Sylvanas. Do you feel like that was a success? Did that work out how you wanted? And might we be seeing more of that in Shadowlands?

"Answering: Steve Danuser

"We knew that when we were making Battle for Azeroth that it was going to be an expansion that tested people's feelings and loyalties. And again, putting these two sides against each other in a way that really hadn't been done to that degree in WoW yet, so far. And knowing that what we were doing with Sylvanas, where she was going into the Shadowlands, all this time, she's been doing these things in BfA because we knew where she was going to end up. It's hard when you can't yet connect the dots for people, you have to kind of set that trajectory in motion. So we knew that, well, it's going to look bad for Sylvanas; people are going to take some of this stuff wrong, but we have to stick to this."

^ Keep what I bolded out from the statement in mind...

Lol.. they knew people would be upset about the story and "not be able to follow the story/connect the dots" yet they did it anyway. Brilliant. Really great idea with a subscription based MMO with 6 months + between patches.

[MatadorMedia]

The spirit of Yogg-Saron would've returned to Nya'lotha when he died, just like how demons go to the Twisting Nether when they die. The Shadowlands is for us mortals.

The Jailer's deal with Sylvanas started when she killed herself after ICC. This was the right time for the Jailer to initiate his plan since Frostmourne was destroyed and only the Helm of Domination remained in play. So, we can assume the Maw started slowly siphoning more souls/anima starting with Cataclysm.

[tehdef]

"Omg Yogg Saron? Blizz is lazy reusing old bosses"


It will come up eventually.

What do you mean? It has to come up again. Yogg isn't dead. We cannot kill Old Gods like that, only Titans can. And as far as we know, it fucks the planet to do it. Which is why they never did it with Azeroth.

Furthermore, they've set the stage for a Void God expansion for years, especially since we know Old Gods are the minions of Void Gods. We have to deal with it all at some point, right?

[Albert the fish]

I have to wonder how all the people who think yogg saron is dead get through the game at all.
I mean one of the single most defining features of the old gods is that even compared to a whole smattering of critters that dont really die when they die Old Gods are notable for failing to die even more than most. That and spreading insanity are their primary thing.
"But he ded!"

[Kumorii]

Yeah... No. There's no way that even Blizzard would be stupid enough to create a story in which they outright tell the player that committing genocide is A-OK as long as you do it for the right reasons.

You're most definitely reading too much into it.

Majority of games, including WoW says killing people for the right reasons is A-OK...not sure why it suddenly would be immoral to imply it, especially since death seems to matter very little in warcraft universe.

[Nerovar]

Majority of games, including WoW says killing people for the right reasons is A-OK...not sure why it suddenly would be immoral to imply it, especially since death seems to matter very little in warcraft universe.

Well, that usually involves killing demons/undead etc. and not burning cities full of civilians. There's a difference between killing people and genocide, you know?

[Wysmark]

I think it is sort of an elegant thought

The Jailer and Sylvanas as the opening "villains", but it turns out that their efforts where actually for the ahem.. greater good of keeping Yogg Saron from swallowing millions of souls and sucking the world into the Shadowlands or something.

Then in a later patch we need to rectify our "mistake"


Kinda like how killing Loken saddled us with killing Algalon later...

[Varodoc]

Well, that usually involves killing demons/undead etc. and not burning cities full of civilians. There's a difference between killing people and genocide, you know?

Especially when both Arthas and Garrosh crossed a terrible threshold precisely when they burned cities full of innocent civilians. Blizzard's stance on this subject is clear. Even the Burning of Teldrassil is framed as nothing more but senseless genocide (which it is), so you cannot even say they've changed their opinion in recent years.

[Kumorii]

Well, that usually involves killing demons/undead etc. and not burning cities full of civilians. There's a difference between killing people and genocide, you know?

I kill plenty of humanoids including elfs, humans, gnomes, dwarfs, orcs, trolls, goblins etc etc and other races. Most quests are about killing others of other races or same races as you because it's ok to further your goal.

Every game that involves killing is literally saying "It's ok to kill others who you don't agree with". Hell afaik, we killed people from defias brotherhood who in fact became bandits after being screwed over by stormwind. It's a game so it doesn't bother me, same as it doesn't bother me you are committing genocide in a game.

[Nerovar]

I kill plenty of humanoids including elfs, humans, gnomes, dwarfs, orcs, trolls, goblins etc etc and other races. Most quests are about killing others of other races or same races as you because it's ok to further your goal.

Every game that involves killing is literally saying "It's ok to kill others who you don't agree with". Hell afaik, we killed people from defias brotherhood who in fact became bandits after being screwed over by stormwind. It's a game so it doesn't bother me, same as it doesn't bother me you are committing genocide in a game.

That's very interesting and all but there's a difference between senseless kill quests and creating a narrative in your game that frames a genocide as a necessary evil or even morally neutral (because of the 'right motivations' yadda yadda). It's just incredibly tone deaf and I don't really understand why out of all the possible stories you would choose to tell that one.