Horde Catapults too OP

[naeblis495]

No, imagine what will happen when we finally fire the cannon in Bilge Water Harbor.

Given what random catapults are capable of ...

That shit can reach Argus without the need of a portal and destroy it completely even if it misses it by a light year .

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sylvanas is the true heiress to the bloody legacy of Blackhand Horde. You always forget the important word to fit your argument. And that Horde is the opposite of Thrall's Horde which was about honor.

Thralls horde was filled with the orcs who had committed multiple genocides and the undead who were doing live human experimentation to make the plague. There’s a reason that the horde fell so easily into following garrosh onto the path of domination and then did the same with sylvanas they have never been about honor.

The only horde leader who could make any claim to being honourable was Caine as he is literally the only one to ever stand up against what people like garrosh and sylvanas did and he died because of it and was replaced with his spineless son who was to cowardly to follow his fathers example and stick to any sort of higher morals instead of being part of genocides.

[Specialka]

Thralls horde was filled with the orcs who had committed multiple genocides and the undead who were doing live human experimentation to make the plague. There’s a reason that the horde fell so easily into following garrosh onto the path of domination and then did the same with sylvanas they have never been about honor.

The only horde leader who could make any claim to being honourable was Caine as he is literally the only one to ever stand up against what people like garrosh and sylvanas did and he died because of it and was replaced with his spineless son who was to cowardly to follow his fathers example and stick to any sort of higher morals instead of being part of genocides.

That is why Thrall tried to change their ways but it is a long path filled with dangers. He had to leave his post because of the cataclysm, so you know, he could save the world (again). You can't always take the good decisions. Even Thrall recognize he took bad decisions.

And every time not every members of the Horde followed the lunatic warchiefs, so it is worth fighting for those people.

[Tiwack]

This is what happens when you test to see if the story holds up outside its fictional universe. Like with the star wars mindtricks you're just stating the obvious and being a party pooper.

In a world where you can bring the dead back to life, you're going to complain about "a wizard did it" being used?

Come on, you're using RL logic to dictate a fictional world. Who're really the idiots here?

QFT

[Monster Hunter]

Yep.

- No reparations to the survivors of Teldrassil
- No war reparations of any kind
- No giving up conquered territories
- No handing over the leaders for trial*
- No punishment for any participants
- No sanctions or anything to guarantee future behavior

Despite the writers making it painfully obvious the rebels were pitifully outnumbered and the majority of the Horde supported the Lich Queen. The Alliance made no demands or terms whatsoever, just a speech about how the Butcher of Ashenvale was a hero for being sad, then buggering off to wait for the next time the Horde feels mass murdery.

Yeah, the Horde won.

* Remember, the Hordies here think Anduin should have sent Genn naked in chains to Org for Stormheim.

Why does the alliance need reperations?

We Re-took darkshire and still hold lorderon. We won both warfronts. Alliance territory expanded massively and the hords shrunk by half.

[sam86]

Thralls horde was filled with the orcs who had committed multiple genocides and the undead who were doing live human experimentation to make the plague. There’s a reason that the horde fell so easily into following garrosh onto the path of domination and then did the same with sylvanas they have never been about honor.

The only horde leader who could make any claim to being honourable was Caine as he is literally the only one to ever stand up against what people like garrosh and sylvanas did and he died because of it and was replaced with his spineless son who was to cowardly to follow his fathers example and stick to any sort of higher morals instead of being part of genocides.

if u go that path, alliance will lose very hard, because for start we have the draenei who caused the extinction of countless planets because they run away instead of actually stay and fight as Lightforge Draenei did (based on a Naruu vision that - again - was shown in Legion is very questionable), then we get the lovely humans who practice genocide for breakfast on any race who is weaker than them, literally wiping out the original land owners (Trolls) to steal theirs and claim it their own, alongside high elves (who are btw still alliance race, not horde), or nelfs who in their greed caused the destruction of Azeroth (and if u say the highborne did that and they became naga, then that also counters all of what horde did since every crime a horde character did horde right now oppose it)
Alliance are worse than horde, unlike horde whose foundation on Durotan is literally to pay for their older crimes, alliance don't even view wiping out most of troll population to take their lands a crime in first place, and while u can argue on kobolds and gnolls that they aren't intelligent enough to count as have rights (+ gnolls are mischievous by nature) u can't really defend how entire alliance civilization is built of wiping out an actual intelligent race (Trolls) who are the original owners of those lands
And no they could find lands with no owners to live, they choose the easy way of fuck trolls because they are stronger and to practice their hobby of purge any race they feel weakness in it, the Orcs choose empty lands to live at (like Alterac Valley or Durotan), alliance? Nah lets wipe out the native, who will stop us? we are the 'light chosen', anything we do is good anything anyone else do is bad

[Mehrunes]

They were already in league with the Ebon Blade and they hate the Scarlet Onslaught as well.

Putting aside ho the Argent Cruade also teamed up with both the Horde and the Alliance as well, I'm not really sure why you thought accusing the Argent Crusade of double standards would be an effective argument. And since when do they hate the Scarlet Onslaught so much that they'd be fine with the Ebon Blade raising them as mindless undead? The Argent Dawn was fine with cooperating with the Scarlet Crusade whenever necessary.

Sylvanas is the true heiress to the bloody legacy of Blackhand Horde. You always forget the important word to fit your argument. And that Horde is the opposite of Thrall's Horde which was about honor.

I'm not forgetting anything, you're twisting the hell out of what Saurfang said. He didn't say a word about differentiating between various Horde. He was talking about one singular Horde. A Horde that was built upon the lie of honor. Honor that even he never knew the meaning of by the way, despite serving under Thrall too. A Horde that Thrall and Vol'jin were not true successors of. That is the context in which he brought up Thrall.

Then there's what @Daemos daemonium said.

Thralls horde was filled with the orcs who had committed multiple genocides and the undead who were doing live human experimentation to make the plague. There’s a reason that the horde fell so easily into following garrosh onto the path of domination and then did the same with sylvanas they have never been about honor.

The only horde leader who could make any claim to being honourable was Caine as he is literally the only one to ever stand up against what people like garrosh and sylvanas did and he died because of it and was replaced with his spineless son who was to cowardly to follow his fathers example and stick to any sort of higher morals instead of being part of genocides.

Technically, the Orcs that bought into Garrosh were mostly the young ones that never even knew the First and Second Wars. Because they were pissed off at Thrall punishing them with shit living conditions by settling the Orcs in a wasteland to satiate his green guilt. And Cairne rose up against Garrosh before he even really did anything.

That is why Thrall tried to change their ways but it is a long path filled with dangers. He had to leave his post because of the cataclysm, so you know, he could save the world (again). You can't always take the good decisions. Even Thrall recognize he took bad decisions.

You mean decisions like naming multiple outposts after the warlords of the Old Horde to honor them?

And every time not every members of the Horde followed the lunatic warchiefs, so it is worth fighting for those people.

While Garrosh wasn't exactly popular with other races due to the obvious reasons of his racism, the Horde turned against him only when he started turning on them first. And the Horde members that opposed Sylvanas is only a handful of Anduin's ass polyps. That, as has been noted numerous times in replies to you in this thread already, rose up against her only after some time, merrily following her at the start just like the rest of the Horde.

Why does the alliance need reperations?

We Re-took darkshire and still hold lorderon. We won both warfronts. Alliance territory expanded massively and the hords shrunk by half.

You counted Darkshire twice. And for Alliance to still hold Lordaeron they'd need to have conquered it first. What you actually got is Horde losing a contested zone they barely had any presence in prior to BfA and them losing a control over a zone they conquered only in BfA. All the while the status of Ashenvale is uncertain.

[Monster Hunter]

Putting aside ho the Argent Cruade also teamed up with both the Horde and the Alliance as well, I'm not really sure why you thought accusing the Argent Crusade of double standards would be an effective argument. And since when do they hate the Scarlet Onslaught so much that they'd be fine with the Ebon Blade raising them as mindless undead? The Argent Dawn was fine with cooperating with the Scarlet Crusade whenever necessary.




I'm not forgetting anything, you're twisting the hell out of what Saurfang said. He didn't say a word about differentiating between various Horde. He was talking about one singular Horde. A Horde that was built upon the lie of honor. Honor that even he never knew the meaning of by the way, despite serving under Thrall too. A Horde that Thrall and Vol'jin were not true successors of. That is the context in which he brought up Thrall.

Then there's what @Daemos daemonium said.




Technically, the Orcs that bought into Garrosh were mostly the young ones that never even knew the First and Second Wars. Because they were pissed off at Thrall punishing them with shit living conditions by settling the Orcs in a wasteland to satiate his green guilt. And Cairne rose up against Garrosh before he even really did anything.




You mean decisions like naming multiple outposts after the warlords of the Old Horde to honor them?




While Garrosh wasn't exactly popular with other races due to the obvious reasons of his racism, the Horde turned against him only when he started turning on them first. And the Horde members that opposed Sylvanas is only a handful of Anduin's ass polyps. That, as has been noted numerous times in replies to you in this thread already, rose up against her only after some time, merrily following her at the start just like the rest of the Horde.




You counted Darkshire twice. And for Alliance to still hold Lordaeron they'd need to have conquered it first. What you actually got is Horde losing a contested zone they barely had any presence in prior to BfA and them losing a control over a zone they conquered only in BfA. All the while the status of Ashenvale is uncertain.

So you lost those territory's then. As I said.

Nearly the whole of Eastern kingdoms now falls under the alliance influance. Lorderon is gone the bloodelves hemmed into the ghost lands, a tiny spec of solid red in a sea of shades of blue.

Then on kalimdore the hord got pushed back to there bre bfa boarders,alliance still a major presance in both the North and Southern barrans.

All the hord managed was to destroy a tree, get zuldazar sacked, a king killed, lose there own greatest champion and successively fuck up every step of there war campaign. You couldn't even keep hold of the scepter or darrion.

And now the hord is run by alliance plants. Thralls neutral since cata, bain loves aunduin, theron was in talks to rejoin the alliance till dala happend and calia looks set to be the new forsaken leader. Every single hord leader now bows to the boi king and your presance is greatly diminished.

But you won't accept the state that's right in front of you.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That is why Thrall tried to change their ways but it is a long path filled with dangers. He had to leave his post because of the cataclysm, so you know, he could save the world (again). You can't always take the good decisions. Even Thrall recognize he took bad decisions.

And every time not every members of the Horde followed the lunatic warchiefs, so it is worth fighting for those people.

Thrall let the forsaken do all there sketchy things while praising grom and doom hammer as hero’s then peace’s out to have a family after cata never checking in with the horde until the siege of org. He does the same thing after legion just leaving the horde until saurfang gets him and even then he only comes back because his own family is at risk. If that was trying to change there ways then thrall is as just super incompetent and cowardly as bane.

- - - Updated - - -

snip

The goats are cowards and ancient humans/elfs were a bunch of dicks, good for them. no one is comparing the horde to alliance.

[Mehrunes]

So you lost those territory's then. As I said.

It's almost as if I didn't negate that. You patting yourself on the back here makes no sense.

Nearly the whole of Eastern kingdoms now falls under the alliance influance. Lorderon is gone the bloodelves hemmed into the ghost lands, a tiny spec of solid red in a sea of shades of blue.

Lordaeron the city is temporarily blighted. There are a ton more Horde outposts in the region. You are conjuring those shades of blue out of tin air right now.

Then on kalimdore the hord got pushed back to there bre bfa boarders,alliance still a major presance in both the North and Southern barrans.

If you're referring to the mission tables by any chance, thanks for making it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, given the fact that the release of Darkshore Warfront made it clear that the stuff from mission tables in relation to Night Elven territory was wrong and at the start of that Warfront patch the Horde still completely held Night Elven land as per Tyrande herself.

All the hord managed was to destroy a tree, get zuldazar sacked, a king killed, lose there own greatest champion and successively fuck up every step of there war campaign. You couldn't even keep hold of the scepter or darrion.

A tree with a racial capital on it. And some other towns. After destroying multiple outposts on their way there. Zul'dazar wasn't sacked, it was invaded in a surgical "get in, get out" strike. That not only failed to achieve its intended purpose of preventing a full alliance between the Zandalari and the Horde, it caused it to happen. With Alliance failing to push an advantage after it because that would make the Trolls sad. Finally, at the end of the war Anduin could only muster troops for one final push and even with aid of Saurfang's rebels, he still couldn't even remotely match the Horde army. """"""""""Somehow"""""""""" you left that part out.

And now the hord is run by alliance plants. Thralls neutral since cata, bain loves aunduin, theron was in talks to rejoin the alliance till dala happend and calia looks set to be the new forsaken leader. Every single hord leader now bows to the boi king and your presance is greatly diminished.

Thrall was neutral in Cata. He has been Horde again since MoP. Dalaran did happen and it cemented Lor'themar in the Horde so trying to use his stance prior to Dalaran makes no sense. Blizzard already said Calia won't be joining Horde.

And Alliance is led by Anduin "pushing an advantage would make me as bad as Sylvanas" Wrynn, who'll be happy with going back to pre-BfA state of things as long as he can salivate over the idea of peace.

Never mind that the link between "Horde leaders bow to the boi king" and "Horde lost more than half of its territory" is beyond non-existent.

But you won't accept the state that's right in front of you.

Coming from someone who when presented with canon novel lore tries to handwave it away because "Blizzard can retcon it" as if they never retconned the game material, this remark means nothing to me. Your arguments in this thread were consistently below terrible. The ones in this post are no exception.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Technically, the Orcs that bought into Garrosh were mostly the young ones that never even knew the First and Second Wars. Because they were pissed off at Thrall punishing them with shit living conditions by settling the Orcs in a wasteland to satiate his green guilt. And Cairne rose up against Garrosh before he even really did anything.

I'm mostly talking about cata before garrosh goes off the deep end the horde is more then happy to follow him which then then repeat with sylvanas.

and for Cairne ya he gets upset before Garrosh actually does any thing but when you compare him challenging Garrosh because he thought he had some peaceful druids killed to bane and co letting Garrosh do any thing he wants until the battle field barrens and then letting sylvanas get away with the burning of the tree it really shows how much spineless cowardly bane and co are.

[Mehrunes]

Thrall let the forsaken do all there sketchy things while praising grom and doom hammer as hero’s then peace’s out to have a family after cata never checking in with the horde until the siege of org. He does the same thing after legion just leaving the horde until saurfang gets him and even then he only comes back because his own family is at risk. If that was trying to change there ways then thrall is as just super incompetent and cowardly as bane.

"Let" is too strong of a word. Thrall didn't even know about what the Forsaken were doing because of how inept a leader he was. Though the comparison between Baine and Thrall is pretty spot on. It'd be hard to pinpoint out which one of them sucks more as a leader. I'd go with Thrall because his green guilt and other brilliant choices led to both Garrosh and his initial popularity among the Orcs.

I'm mostly talking about cata before garrosh goes off the deep end the horde is more then happy to follow him which then then repeat with sylvanas.

Yeah, I know. Just pointing out the difference between the young Orcs who were indeed gung ho about Garrosh's politics and old veterans who knew where his desires would lead, following only out of loyalty. I mean, Saurfang even threatened him in case he'd lead the Horde down the path of Blackhand again (only to then do nothing about it for nearly three years and freezing his ass off in Borean Tundra until the end of SoO because Saurfang's word means nothing and it's not even the only example showing that).

and for Cairne ya he gets upset before Garrosh actually does any thing but when you compare him challenging Garrosh because he thought he had some peaceful druids killed to bane and co letting Garrosh do any thing he wants until the battle field barrens and then letting sylvanas get away with the burning of the tree it really shows how much spineless cowardly bane and co are.

No argument there.

[Monster Hunter]

It's almost as if I didn't negate that. You patting yourself on the back here makes no sense.




Lordaeron the city is temporarily blighted. There are a ton more Horde outposts in the region. You are conjuring those shades of blue out of tin air right now.




If you're referring to the mission tables by any chance, thanks for making it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, given the fact that the release of Darkshore Warfront made it clear that the stuff from mission tables in relation to Night Elven territory was wrong and at the start of that Warfront patch the Horde still completely held Night Elven land as per Tyrande herself.




A tree with a racial capital on it. And some other towns. After destroying multiple outposts on their way there. Zul'dazar wasn't sacked, it was invaded in a surgical "get in, get out" strike. That not only failed to achieve its intended purpose of preventing a full alliance between the Zandalari and the Horde, it caused it to happen. With Alliance failing to push an advantage after it because that would make the Trolls sad. Finally, at the end of the war Anduin could only muster troops for one final push and even with aid of Saurfang's rebels, he still couldn't even remotely match the Horde army. """"""""""Somehow"""""""""" you left that part out.




Thrall was neutral in Cata. He has been Horde again since MoP. Dalaran did happen and it cemented Lor'themar in the Horde so trying to use his stance prior to Dalaran makes no sense. Blizzard already said Calia won't be joining Horde.

And Alliance is led by Anduin "pushing an advantage would make me as bad as Sylvanas" Wrynn, who'll be happy with going back to pre-BfA state of things as long as he can salivate over the idea of peace.

Never mind that the link between "Horde leaders bow to the boi king" and "Horde lost more than half of its territory" is beyond non-existent.




Coming from someone who when presented with canon novel lore tries to handwave it away because "Blizzard can retcon it" as if they never retconned the game material, this remark means nothing to me. Your arguments in this thread were consistently below terrible. The ones in this post are no exception.

Oooof some one hasn't seen the new darkshore cinimatic.

Darkshore belongs to our people once more, in no small part due to your efforts. And, while I disagree with her methods, we would not have succeeded without Tyrande as well. Differences aside, she is our leader--and an incarnation of the Night Warrior herself. She is about to begin. You may stand here beside me.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=309830....rande-cutscene

This is the map from the mission tables in lorderon

What big presance does the hord really have there now?



Right after lorderon



And with darkshore back in alliance hands and the night elves set up in nordrasil. The hords hold on northern kalimdor is broken.

All the hord have left are a few out posts, cental kalimdor and the blood elf lands. The alliance on the other hand has expanded both there territory and influance across most of Azeroth.

All you showing is how deluded you are and ignorant of what's right here in game. Your the one man celebrating in a defeated nation and its laughable.

And now your hord is lead by puppets of aunduin. Contained by guilt and passificm. No more warchifes, no more great hord, just a sorry sack of left overs clinging to Central kalimdor.

[Kyphael]

And Garrosh would have chopped down Teldrasill and then used the wood to build a bridge all the way to stormwind to punch Anduin in his non-toxic-masculine face.

And if anyone tried to stop him he would scream. "GET OFF MY BIRDGE!" and kill them.

We are currently living in the worst timeline.

Yes, yes we are, but I'm glad you saw the tongue-in-cheek absurdity in my post and didn't take it seriously. lol You're the first.

[eurojust]

And with darkshore back in alliance hands and the night elves set up in nordrasil. The hords hold on northern kalimdor is broken.

Darkshore is just a small landscape completely blighted.
The Night Elves don't own Nordrasil and the Horde fully control Ashenvale and Azshara, the most important and oldest territories the Night Elves had.

[Monster Hunter]

Darkshore is just a small landscape completely blighted.
The Night Elves don't own Nordrasil and the Horde fully control Ashenvale and Azshara, the most important and oldest territories the Night Elves had.

Darkshore is back. The land wasnt hurt much and malfurion talks about healing it easily enough.

And some one best tell tyrande they don't own nordrasil because that's where she says she's taking her people post not signing the peace treaty, in the cut scene.

Ashenvale was retaken by follower missions.

Azshara wasn't part of the 4th war. Its been hord since cata and arguable wasn't really night elf land since the 3rd war and ogrimar being found.

[eurojust]

Darkshore is back. The land wasnt hurt much and malfurion talks about healing it easily enough.

And some one best tell tyrande they don't own nordrasil because that's where she says she's taking her people post not signing the peace treaty, in the cut scene.

Nordrasil is owned by the druids who are part Horde and part Alliance. The Night Elves don't own Hyjal. Thrall even had his wedding there.

[Feanoro]

Nordrasil is owned by the druids who are part Horde and part Alliance. The Night Elves don't own Hyjal. Thrall even had his wedding there.

The druids consider both sides silly.

[Monster Hunter]

Nordrasil is owned by the druids who are part Horde and part Alliance. The Night Elves don't own Hyjal. Thrall even had his wedding there.

Looks like tyrande disagrees. Watch the alliance cut scene.

Tyrande: I will tarry no longer in this city of men. Let us leave for the boughs of Nordrassil.

Tyrande: From there we will dispatch the Sentinels to every corner of Azeroth. Let no one rest until the Banshee is found!

[eurojust]

The druids consider both sides silly.

The druids recognize the strenght of the Horde. Remember Cenarius who went mad because some Orcs were cutting trees in Ashenvale? Well the Warsong showed him who was the boss and since that moment he respects the Horde more than ever.