Ny'alotha, The Waking City World First Race

[Soluna]

I agree. Anything method doesn't win is a joke. It would be a pity the current race becomes a joke despite all of the cheating.

No classic is a joke because I can literally turn off my brain and still perform to the maximum as a healer/dps in molten core. The only thing you need to learn is pathing for tanks, but you just learn that once, ahead of time, and then yet again, there is literally 0 skill involved. I am sorry if it hurts you that your precious classic raids are a pathetic joke that don't really deserve world first recognition, not 15 years after being done to death by private server neckbeards.

I am actually rooting for Limit this time around, cause I like them letting us listen to their comms more than method just having casters, most of which are ass, aside from a certain few like Preach, who are actually entertaining to watch. And I think that Crucible was a valid race despite Method losing, I just do not think that Method played at their full potential with some of their best players missing progression for MDI.

[MrLachyG]

how are they meant to thoroughly test the final boss when they won't let raiders access it for fairness reasons? plus bugs happen - even if they let raiders test the final boss, which would create even more cries of favouritism, bugs like this can just randomly happen - look at the AH money bug; that was one that never surfaced on the PTR despite the new system being there yet the moment they bring it to live servers shit went haywire.

[Soluna]

So if a team doesn't win the Superbowl because they have a lot if injuries then that Superbowl doesn't count? It seems legit.

Can you tell me exactly where did I say that the world first race for Crucible doesn't count? I merely wanted to mention that it's noteworthy to remember that Method wasn't playing at their full capacity. This means that this tier will be finally the real answer to whether Method or Limit is currently better, as both teams operate at full capacity. May I suggest a new pair of glasses?

[Flashforcash]

Method beat the Queen because they came up with a 1-healer strategy and waited to do their split runs to make that strat happen. By the time they were working on it every other guild in contention had already done their splits and wouldn't be able to funnel the gear to properly shore up the raid for a single healer.

you mean the 2-disc healer setup?

[Soluna]

Most of the fight is the final 30-40% of p3 lol. They aren't exactly super close to killing it.

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Tons of classic loons unironically think there was a world first race in classic and method lost lol.

Fully agreed, classic players are fucking delusional, and I say this as someone who logs in every wednesday to do fast clears of molten core and am excited for BWL. I just know that this game is garbage when it comes to skill compared to retail, even if retail classes are watered down. Anything is harder than spamming frostbolt and praying golemagg won't resist it and that it will crit 50-60% of the time instead of 10%. And anything is harder than a single mechanic or two each boss has in Molten Core, even LFR. But that means we should maybe start having world first LFR races : O since classic is easier than that?!

[Tech614]

Method beat the Queen because they came up with a 1-healer strategy and waited to do their split runs to make that strat happen. By the time they were working on it every other guild in contention had already done their splits and wouldn't be able to funnel the gear to properly shore up the raid for a single healer.

The hell are you talking about 1 heal? You going off the wrong wowprogress comp? They 2 healed it, Limit 3 healed it. Limit killed it same day. Both strats worked, Method executed better and faster.

[hellhamster]

It really sucks for Limit and I'm rooting for them, but they were surely expecting something to go wrong since they knew it was untested on the PTR.

They probably would have stopped dps at the last 10% or so and caused a wipe for fear of killing a bugged boss anyway, because Blizzard has given bans for less.

Besides, an untested boss surely brings a myriad of other problems in the world first race, like bad tuning which is almost certainly a given, and mechanics not working or triggering correctly or being easily counterable with class stacking.

They should have just tested the boss more. They didn't and now people are justified in being angry about it, because any legitimacy of a world first kill will be in question.

So, Blizzard were justified in despawning it, fearing a shitstorm happening if Limit would kill it, but they really need to spend more time testing their stuff out.

Now Limit pays the price of hours of progress wasted in waiting until the boss is fixed, with Method catching up in learning the fight and strategizing a correct composition, cd usages and weakauras. At least for the part of the fight that's working lol.

[Einsz]

Method beat the Queen because they came up with a 1-healer strategy and waited to do their split runs to make that strat happen. By the time they were working on it every other guild in contention had already done their splits and wouldn't be able to funnel the gear to properly shore up the raid for a single healer.

You mean Method practiced that strategy until Blizzard nerfed the boss for them for that to work, same shit with Jaina remember the Method outrage when Blizzard fixed her so they can't zerg? Ofc Method cries on social media and they reverted the nerf 30 min later.

[Shurkien]

Method did not make it to a single end boss this expansion first so no limit was always the one waiting on fixes.

I dont talk exclusively about end bosses.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Besides, an untested boss surely brings a myriad of other problems in the world first race, like bad tuning which is almost certainly a given, and mechanics not working or triggering correctly or being easily counterable with class stacking.

I have to agree, Blizzard really should start taking the testing serious.

Tuning being off I can accept to some degree, but stuff not triggering, that is just a sign of the worst kind of QA. You can't tell me that they can't run an internal server with some cheat characters to test at least things triggering. If you are smart about it you don't even need that many people, spawn 19 invulnerable player "actors", create a dot with the estimated dps of a raid and see it going down. Again balancing being off is somewhat understandable, as I doubt Blizzard has people good enough for internal testing on that level, but that they can't even get the framework of the fight working.. that is just sad from a software dev perspective.

[Azolluh]

I have to agree, Blizzard really should start taking the testing serious.

Tuning being off I can accept to some degree, but stuff not triggering, that is just a sign of the worst kind of QA. You can't tell me that they can't run an internal server with some cheat characters to test at least things triggering. If you are smart about it you don't even need that many people, spawn 19 invulnerable player "actors", create a dot with the estimated dps of a raid and see it going down. Again balancing being off is somewhat understandable, as I doubt Blizzard has people good enough for internal testing on that level, but that they can't even get the framework of the fight working.. that is just sad from a software dev perspective.

I'm 100% sure that a QA job isn't that simple. Nor is coding boss triggers or just encounters in general that straightforward.

I mean it sucks how it isn't absolutely perfect and how it isn't worth it from a business standpoint to throw enough resources at bosses to make sure the encounter is perfect for the initial ~20-45 players. But...it's Blizzard, lmao.

[Onikaroshi]

I'm 100% sure that a QA job isn't that simple. Nor is coding boss triggers or just encounters in general that straightforward.

Not to mention shit that works on ptr or other tests can just break being pushed live

[thilicen]

Why would they get banned for blizzard being stupid and not knowing how to properly code a fight and nobody having ever fought the fight before. If it was an obvious exploit then yeah but there was nothing obvious about it.

This "It's Blizzard's fault for having the bugs" argument has been done over, and over, and over, and it has always ended the same way so please just.. stop.
Fortunately for Limit they are probably smart enough to know a bugged fight when they see one and -probably- would never have gone through with it anyway.

[hellhamster]

The actual thing to really watch out for now that Blizzard has to patch the entire encounter, is to get the tuning right. The reset will bring a HUGE dps gain, not just from ilvl, but also from corruption. We've all seen how well BDKs perform for example.

It's gonna be funny if the boss will be way too easy next reset and will die within the first day.

[Dedhillo]

Can someone eli5 what is the bug (or was) with n'zoth? Have not been able to follow too much, cba to read 15 pages

[Xath]

This "It's Blizzard's fault for having the bugs" argument has been done over, and over, and over, and it has always ended the same way so please just.. stop.
Fortunately for Limit they are probably smart enough to know a bugged fight when they see one and -probably- would never have gone through with it anyway.

It's not obvious it's a bugged fight though. Especially since he regained shield at 25%. Without the puddles getting reset you really can't handle more than 25% of his health if that. So it would make sense you burn him as the power of azeroth is holding him back then you go inside kill the corruption come back out and nuke like lich king 25 man. However that apparently isn't what blizzard wants so it's possible it's just currently unkillable we will likely see tomorrow after all splits are finished.

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I dont talk exclusively about end bosses.

So Mythrax? That's the only boss Method reached before limit this entire expansion when both were racing and that wasn't bugged. Fetid was though which NA got to sit and wait for hotfixes for.

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Can someone eli5 what is the bug (or was) with n'zoth? Have not been able to follow too much, cba to read 15 pages

So we don't actually know what the fight is supposed to do. At what seems to be a set time a gate spawns then go inside kill an add burn all your necks on powering up countermeasures and then you go back out of the chamber and nothing's changed. Puddles don't despawn there is no additional damage increase on the boss and you have no necks left. They have at this point tried using necks on magni and mother tried just sitting the chamber past enrage. Tried not going in and burning him til he regained his shield at 25% and then going into the chamber killing the add and came out to the boss being despawned. After that boss was hotfixed to do a crazy amount of damage with pulse after the gate spawned. Something is off or there is something super not obvious that they aren't doing but nobody has any idea what.

[Onikaroshi]

It will completely invalidate the race and make it feel like EN Which is sad since this looks like a very fun tier.

En was downed in like a day, it's not even comparable. And if you let how fast the world first guild kill something affect your enjoyment of the tier, that's on you, there will be many nerfs to the raid before most guilds even have a chance

[Onikaroshi]

I said it would invalidate the race, not the raid.

"Which is sad because it looks like a fun tier" really makes it sound like you're talking about the raid

[Shurkien]

So Mythrax? That's the only boss Method reached before limit this entire expansion when both were racing and that wasn't bugged. Fetid was though which NA got to sit and wait for hotfixes for.

They also got first to Orgozoa, since Method first killed Queens Court.

It's not obvious it's a bugged fight though. Especially since he regained shield at 25%. Without the puddles getting reset you really can't handle more than 25% of his health if that. So it would make sense you burn him as the power of azeroth is holding him back then you go inside kill the corruption come back out and nuke like lich king 25 man. However that apparently isn't what blizzard wants so it's possible it's just currently unkillable we will likely see tomorrow after all splits are finished.

You are funny.
If Method would've done that you would rant them for days for "exploiting" the boss.
But when Limit does something fishy.. its fine - how should they know?

Everyone knows that you want them win so hard - but you need to treat both teams the same.

[Xath]

They also got first to Orgozoa, since Method first killed Queens Court.



You are funny.
If Method would've done that you would rant them for days for "exploiting" the boss.
But when Limit does something fishy.. its fine - how should they know?

Everyone knows that you want them win so hard - but you need to treat both teams the same.

Which wasn't bugged we are talking about bugged fights. Also Ashvane was bugged which is why Limit went and did splits so early one of her mega bubbles traveled underground and couldn't be soaked and just wiped the raid after the first transition.

Also no I wouldn't I only call exploits exploits aka reseting the boss 3 times to have 4 walocks have 20 stacks of grim of supremacy.

Now if they killed the boss ie if it never got a shield back that would be an exploit and obviously non intended. However with the relatively light pulsing of aoe and the gate not despawning plus add spawning stopping it could have been a burn phase since he got his shield back at 25%. The fight is insanely unclear and this point I'm not sure what they have left to try they have even burned necks on magni and mother.