Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Edge-]

Bull shit I do. Never seen delayed results like this before.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21...gieg-democrats

I mean...we knew there may be delays due to the newer app they were using for this primary.

But sure, I guess this is all literally the worst possible situation it could ever be for anything and everything because reasons.

Seriously, it's getting more difficult to tell the ardent Sanders followers with some Trump followers as this goes on. This is not good for Democrats, and Sanders needs to stamp this shit down hard.

[cubby]

Bull shit I do. Never seen delayed results like this before.

When people say "never", they are almost always not telling the truth.

[Dug]

So when Secretary's of State delay to double check results are accurate it's ok, but when results come in that you don't like, it's "fuck the establishment" - lovely. Trump called, thanked you for your support.

Just saying its taking longer than usual. If it's because of a much higher turn out than ever before that's a good sign in its own way. It's also no secret the Democratic party isn't fond of Sanders.

[Elegiac]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21...gieg-democrats

I mean...we knew there may be delays due to the newer app they were using for this primary.

I feel the Bernie Bros missed the memo of attributing to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, honestly.

Who knows, maybe the ACA website not working at first also a neoliberal conspiracy to poison the well against public healthcare!

[cubby]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21...gieg-democrats

I mean...we knew there may be delays due to the newer app they were using for this primary.

Wow @Xeones, sucks to learn something, eh?

[Fugus]

For me, I want to know the actual vote numbers in this for them and if any weird shit happens. Whomever wins the majority of the voters better get an equal majority of the delegates or however they want to do it.

And unlike the shit from 2016, I want a legit one with no fingers on the scale.

[cubby]

Just saying its taking longer than usual. If it's because of a much higher turn out than ever before that's a good sign in its own way. It's also no secret the Democratic party isn't fond of Sanders.

All true, and agreed re turn out. But delays for accuracy are usually a good thing.

[Elegiac]

For me, I want to know the actual vote numbers in this for them and if any weird shit happens. Whomever wins the majority of the voters better get an equal majority of the delegates or however they want to do it.

And unlike the shit from 2016, I want a legit one with no fingers on the scale.

Please. You'll complain about any result that isn't Bernie regardless of how fair the election is.

[beanman12345]

Just saying its taking longer than usual. If it's because of a much higher turn out than ever before that's a good sign in its own way. It's also no secret the Democratic party isn't fond of Sanders.

These delays are because they changed shit. if your candidate is viable you can't move your vote, previously you could. They thought it would speed up the process but it actually slowed it considerably. it's never been delayed this long, however that's not indicative of it being rigged.

[cubby]

For me, I want to know the actual vote numbers in this for them and if any weird shit happens. Whomever wins the majority of the voters better get an equal majority of the delegates or however they want to do it.

And unlike the shit from 2016, I want a legit one with no fingers on the scale.

The kind of witchcraft the Iowa caucuses use to select their [whatever] will never be clear, and hoping for the actual vote numbers is the kind of naivety we all dream of in government service. I share it as well - I want to see the actual vote numbers as well. But in the end, it's all sorcery and magic.

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For me, I want to know the actual vote numbers in this for them and if any weird shit happens. Whomever wins the majority of the voters better get an equal majority of the delegates or however they want to do it.

And unlike the shit from 2016, I want a legit one with no fingers on the scale.

You push Bernie like he's a member of the Democratic Party seeking it's nomination. Only half of that is true. I know, I know - the other side of that is that he runs independent and fucks us for good. And yes, Perot is on my call back list.

[Fugus]

Please. You'll complain about any result that isn't Bernie regardless of how fair the election is.

You can stop projecting your faults onto others any time now. If Sanders loses legit and fair, I will gladly vote for Warren. If it comes to Biden, I will need him to swear not to cut Medicare or Social Security before he gets my vote.

But, if we get crap similar to 2016, I will withhold my vote again.

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You push Bernie like he's a member of the Democratic Party seeking it's nomination. Only half of that is true. I know, I know - the other side of that is that he runs independent and fucks us for good. And yes, Perot is on my call back list.

Whether the Democrats like him or not, they are required by their own rules to be neutral and not put their fingers on the scale and if he gets so much of their voters, then they need to take the hint and go to their voters instead of giving them to finger thinking they have no choice.

[Edge-]

But, if we get crap similar to 2016, I will withhold my vote again.

What, 2016 when he lost by every measure possible and there was no wrongdoing? Do we need to dredge that history up for the 908723490857234908572389045723890578902347589054 time, 4 years later?

Good lord, close your eyes and check the box if you don't want Trump. Anything is better than Trump. Then, rather than waiting for the next election to pitch another temper tantrum, get out there and work to enact change within the DNC, and also by that same measure Sanders can join the DNC if he wants to run as a Democrat next time. Again, he's still not a Democrat. Switch parties and work on change from within, or stop complaining every 4 years when you decide you want to play for a different team again.

[Thelxi]

These conspiracy theories lol. Thousands of people just voted with their physical bodies; take a moment to think about how realistic tampering with the actual results would be.

[Elegiac]

You can stop projecting your faults onto others any time now. If Sanders loses legit and fair

Again, there is no circumstance in your universe where Bernie could fairly lose.

It's been explained to you hundreds of times why 2016 was not "rigged" and that Bernie had to play by the same rulebook every other candidate did (something I attribute to the relative youth of a lot of Bernie Bros since they don't seem to recall the 2008 primary). And every one of those times you just respond with some variant of "no, you're wrong", then just rehash the same set of sensationalist media articles from 2016 that were long since debunked.

So pardon me for calling you dishonest, but given your previous choices and positions I'll believe it when I see it. Top kek.

[Endus]

You can stop projecting your faults onto others any time now. If Sanders loses legit and fair, I will gladly vote for Warren. If it comes to Biden, I will need him to swear not to cut Medicare or Social Security before he gets my vote.

But, if we get crap similar to 2016, I will withhold my vote again.

Withholding your vote makes zero sense, unless you seriously think the Republican and Democratic candidates are equally bad.

And if you think Biden, or Clinton, are as bad as Donald J. Trump, you're a ridiculous person. What you're talking about is essentially throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way, and letting the objectively worse candidate in without opposing them.

Democracy isn't about getting your way. It's about voting for the least-bad option.

[beanman12345]

You can stop projecting your faults onto others any time now. If Sanders loses legit and fair, I will gladly vote for Warren. If it comes to Biden, I will need him to swear not to cut Medicare or Social Security before he gets my vote.

But, if we get crap similar to 2016, I will withhold my vote again.

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Whether the Democrats like him or not, they are required by their own rules to be neutral and not put their fingers on the scale and if he gets so much of their voters, then they need to take the hint and go to their voters instead of giving them to finger thinking they have no choice.

Biden ain't gonna fuck with medicare and social security. Trump however...

[Endus]

What, 2016 when he lost by every measure possible and there was no wrongdoing? Do we need to dredge that history up for the 908723490857234908572389045723890578902347589054 time, 4 years later?

Good lord, close your eyes and check the box if you don't want Trump. Anything is better than Trump. Then, rather than waiting for the next election to pitch another temper tantrum, get out there and work to enact change within the DNC, and also by that same measure Sanders can join the DNC if he wants to run as a Democrat next time. Again, he's still not a Democrat. Switch parties and work on change from within, or stop complaining every 4 years when you decide you want to play for a different team again.

If Bernie didn't want to deal with the crazy DNC primary rules, he could've just, like, run as an Independent.

He's not gonna.

Because he knows he'd have no chance, and would just Ross Perot the election for Trump, at best.

But he could. If he wants to play ball with the Dems and have a chance, he gets to play by the same rules as everyone else in the party. That's how this works.

[Elegiac]

Biden ain't gonna fuck with medicare and social security.

But some shithead on Twitter said he would.

The utterly mystifying thing is that they could very easily go after Biden for the whole student debt thing but are choosing to harp on thi...

Oh, is it because they think that drawing attention to threatening the favorite social programs of America's geriatrics they might get more right wingers on side? Big if true.

[Fugus]

What, 2016 when he lost by every measure possible and there was no wrongdoing? Do we need to dredge that history up for the 908723490857234908572389045723890578902347589054 time, 4 years later?

Good lord, close your eyes and check the box if you don't want Trump. Anything is better than Trump. Then, rather than waiting for the next election to pitch another temper tantrum, get out there and work to enact change within the DNC, and also by that same measure Sanders can join the DNC if he wants to run as a Democrat next time. Again, he's still not a Democrat. Switch parties and work on change from within, or stop complaining every 4 years when you decide you want to play for a different team again.

So you are saying the delegates weren't thrown to her from the start of the whole thing to try and drum up momentum for her and try and kill it for him? Sorry, this is one both me and you will have to agree to disagree on.

And whether he is a Democrat in name is besides the point, let the voters decide in a fair election because if their voters like him more or even near as much as them, that should be enough to take the hint unless they want to fail the same autopsy the Republicans failed.

And as soon as the party stops trying to fight him and others like him at every point, then he might have a reason to stay. Remember they changed rules to fight off incumbents since people like him were starting to run and they didn't like being primaries.

As soon as they actually start letting those views get a fair shake without having to force the issues on them and stop fighting their own base from the inside, then they got room to talk. But no point to stay if they don't want to adopt his policies and only want to trade on his name and ask for his donor list while fighting anyone with views like his from winning primaries.

If the DNC makes that mistake, then they will have earned Trump. If they have a fair election with no fuckery, then gladly vote for whomever win, even if it isn't Sanders so long as they don't cut Social Security or Medicare and actually push for Medicare for All.

[Milchshake]

They would have even bigger turnouts if they turned it into a strait ballot vote, instead of making people wait around 2-3+ hours many people don't have time for this, can't get child care etc.

Hi Beanman123445! It was Bernie people who fought hardest to keep the caucus system during the Unity Commission, and they did it because they dominated the caucuses in 2016 and wanted a repeat in 2020. Don't come complaining to anyone now.