Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Elegiac]

If Bernie didn't want to deal with the crazy DNC primary rules, he could've just, like, run as an Independent.

He's not gonna.

Because he knows he'd have no chance, and would just Ross Perot the election for Trump, at best.

But he could. If he wants to play ball with the Dems and have a chance, he gets to play by the same rules as everyone else in the party. That's how this works.

Bernie had to compromise politically in order to have a chance.

Also, Warren is literally Hitler for compromising politically in order to have a chance.

/s

[Wyrt]

If Bernie didn't want to deal with the crazy DNC primary rules, he could've just, like, run as an Independent.

He's not gonna.

Because he knows he'd have no chance, and would just Ross Perot the election for Trump, at best.

But he could. If he wants to play ball with the Dems and have a chance, he gets to play by the same rules as everyone else in the party. That's how this works.

Do you want him to run as an independent? Because that'd 100% guarantee that Trump gets reelected.

[Edge-]

If Bernie didn't want to deal with the crazy DNC primary rules, he could've just, like, run as an Independent.

He's not gonna.

Because he knows he'd have no chance, and would just Ross Perot the election for Trump, at best.

But he could. If he wants to play ball with the Dems and have a chance, he gets to play by the same rules as everyone else in the party. That's how this works.

Yep, that's part of my point.

If he wants to benefit from the DNC machine, join the DNC machine.

If he wants to remain an Independent, run as an Independent.

But he's painted himself into a corner with his own rhetoric.

If he joins the DNC, that harms his "brand" and would likely push away some of his supporters.

If he runs as an Independent, good luck trying to get meaningful support without major party backing, with a side-dose of "Enjoy being a potential actual third party spoiler.", because Jill Stein never received enough votes in any individual state to actually be a spoiler last election.

[Elegiac]

So you are saying the delegates weren't thrown to her from the start of the whole thing to try and drum up momentum for her and try and kill it for him? Sorry, this is one both me and you will have to agree to disagree on.

People who say "agree to disagree" are usually in the wrong, Jan.

Why didn't Bernie just run 3rd party if the Democrats are so corrupt?

[infinitemeridian]

Bernie had to compromise politically in order to have a chance.

Also, Warren is literally Hitler for compromising politically in order to have a chance.

/s

Why the fuck would I vote for someone who's going to dash the things I voted for them for to the ground? Because that's what compromise in this country is. You get some frankenstein bullshit that nobody understands, is convoluted to hell and back, won't get any support from republicans no matter what, and will likely get trashed in 4 years because nobody gives a crap.

Then the wonks will tell you you're just "too naive, maybe you should have read the fine print, try watching the west wing and then you'll understand how politics works", etc.

Giving up ground to compromise before you're even in the room is bad politics, and anybody who promotes it or subscribes to it deserves to get put through the same political poleaxe that Obama and his ilk faced.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Elegiac]

Do you want him to run as an independent? Because that'd 100% guarantee that Trump gets reelected.

Political compromise is okay if Bernie does it but not anyone else.

- - - Updated - - -

Why the fuck would I vote for someone who's going to dash the things I voted for them for to the ground? Because that's what compromise in this country is. You get some frankenstein bullshit that nobody understands, is convoluted to hell and back, won't get any support from republicans no matter what, and will likely get trashed in 4 years because nobody gives a crap.

Then the wonks will tell you you're just "too naive, maybe you should have read the fine print, try watching the west wing and then you'll understand how politics works", etc.

Thanks, but no thanks.

So...you're not supporting Warren because government is complicated? Lol.

Really not helping the impression that Sanders is the left wing Trump, here.

[beanman12345]

Ugh Amy drop out you have no chance.

[Skroe]

I swear to god. Voting and technology. Why guys. Just why. Gotta feed the consultancies I guess.

Pen. Paper. Phone call to the central tally place. Worked for decades. But no. Now we need some fucking app.

I’m old enough to remember people saying “we should be able to vote from home over the internet”. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

[infinitemeridian]

Also love these posts complaining about Sanders not running as a Democrat, aka one of the most dogshit brands on this planet. Gee, I wonder why?

[Fugus]

But some shithead on Twitter said he would.

The utterly mystifying thing is that they could very easily go after Biden for the whole student debt thing but are choosing to harp on thi...

Oh, is it because they think that drawing attention to threatening the favorite social programs of America's geriatrics they might get more right wingers on side? Big if true.

No, I think it might have been you where I repeatedly had to tell them that I didn't watch some twitter rant and I actually watched the CSPAN footage about a year ago and came to that same conclusion all the way back then and even told you to ask Cubby if you didn't believe me on it. But you were too dense to understand what I said and kept clinging to a fantasy.
@beanman12345

I came across some footage on CSPAN about a year or so back that was recent where he actually was talking about it from the way it looked to me.
@Endus

I don't think the Democrats are near as bad as the Republicans and so long as things are legit, I will gladly vote whomever wins but the thing is the 2016 election didn't pass the smell test and Clinton's actions with Debbie and taking her into the campaign was the last straw for me after what Debbie did. And even if people try and claim she didn't do anything, even they can't deny everything around it make that entire thing stupid and fucked up on her part and a huge slap in the to her own voters.

I want to have someone to actually vote FOR and not just some bigger bad on the other side to vote against. And if I feel like I am getting screwed over and they are trying to mess around with my choice, then I just withhold at that point as i refuse to vote someone I see as effectively screwing me over.

[Edge-]

So you are saying the delegates weren't thrown to her from the start of the whole thing to try and drum up momentum for her and try and kill it for him? Sorry, this is one both me and you will have to agree to disagree on.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that superdelegates don't factor into most folks votes, and that even without them Sanders failed to secure enough primary delegates to win the nomination.

Remove them from the equation and nothing changes. Superdelegates aren't new, they've been around for ages. That they're "new" for Sanders voters speaks more to their political ignorance than it does anything else.

And whether he is a Democrat in name is besides the point

No it's god-damned not. If it was beside the point, political parties wouldn't exist. But they do, because they matter.

let the voters decide in a fair election because if their voters like him more or even near as much as them, that should be enough to take the hint unless they want to fail the same autopsy the Republicans failed.

They did. In 2016 Hillary got more primary votes than Sanders.

And as soon as the party stops trying to fight him and others like him at every point, then he might have a reason to stay.

They've never tried to "fight him at every point", have you been paying attention? Plenty of his policies became a part of the 2016 DNC platform, and he successfully pushed Hillary and the DNC leftward after that election.

He never "joined", so he couldn't really "stay". He has been, and remains, and outside by his own choice.

Remember they changed rules to fight off incumbents since people like him were starting to run and they didn't like being primaries.

I don't, do you have a link?

As soon as they actually start letting those views get a fair shake without having to force the issues on them and stop fighting their own base from the inside, then they got room to talk. But no point to stay if they don't want to adopt his policies and only want to trade on his name and ask for his donor list while fighting anyone with views like his from winning primaries.

This is an entirely fictional situation. Sanders has never expressed a desire to join the DNC, and you're constantly portraying them as the ones keeping him out. I'm sure they'd welcome him if he wanted to join. What's stopping him?

If the DNC makes that mistake, then they will have earned Trump. If they have a fair election with no fuckery, then gladly vote for whomever win, even if it isn't Sanders so long as they don't cut Social Security or Medicare and actually push for Medicare for All.

This whole post is functionally, "The DNC should compromise with Sanders by giving him everything he wants and if they don't then I won't vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is and would rather have Trump as president.", or at least that's how it reads.

[Elegiac]

I swear to god. Voting and technology. Why guys. Just why. Gotta feed the consultancies I guess.

Pen. Paper. Phone call to the central tally place. Worked for decades. But no. Now we need some fucking app.

I’m old enough to remember people saying “we should be able to vote from home over the internet”. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

You had the right of it when you said the US should be looking to France for an example of a good electoral structure, tbh.

Caucuses are a circus.

[infinitemeridian]

I swear to god. Voting and technology. Why guys. Just why. Gotta feed the consultancies I guess.

Pen. Paper. Phone call to the central tally place. Worked for decades. But no. Now we need some fucking app.

I’m old enough to remember people saying “we should be able to vote from home over the internet”. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

Except the people behind this app are the same people you praised as having a cutting edge campaign back in 2016. It's almost like the DNC hasn't learned jack shit over the last 4 years.

[Elegiac]

Also love these posts complaining about Sanders not running as a Democrat, aka one of the most dogshit brands on this planet. Gee, I wonder why?

*taps microphone*

Why's he running in our primary, then.

[Edge-]

Also love these posts complaining about Sanders not running as a Democrat, aka one of the most dogshit brands on this planet. Gee, I wonder why?

Such dogshit that...he's running for president as a Democrat? Twice?

Your avatar is giving the look that I would like to give you, because I'm confused as fuck by this post.

[Elegiac]

Except the people behind this app are the same people you praised as having a cutting edge campaign back in 2016. It's almost like the DNC hasn't learned jack shit over the last 4 years.

You do realise there's a difference between state level electoral administration and a nationally administered campaign?

ActBlue remains one of the pinnacles of political fundraising, however you spin it.

[Fugus]

Yep, that's part of my point.

If he wants to benefit from the DNC machine, join the DNC machine.

If he wants to remain an Independent, run as an Independent.

But he's painted himself into a corner with his own rhetoric.

If he joins the DNC, that harms his "brand" and would likely push away some of his supporters.

If he runs as an Independent, good luck trying to get meaningful support without major party backing, with a side-dose of "Enjoy being a potential actual third party spoiler.", because Jill Stein never received enough votes in any individual state to actually be a spoiler last election.

If the DNC actually stopped being so hostile to him and his policies to the point they only mention them when he drags it into the discussion and they actively fight other candidates like him from going into the primaries against incumbents then he might actually try and stay.

But you can't keep ignoring that simple fact and then act high and mighty because he doesn't stay when all they want to do is trade on his name and beg for his donor list.

[Elegiac]

I want to have someone to actually vote FOR and not just some bigger bad on the other side to vote against. And if I feel like I am getting screwed over and they are trying to mess around with my choice, then I just withhold at that point as i refuse to vote someone I see as effectively screwing me over.

I can't believe I'm having to reference fucking South Park to explain this, but:

[Milchshake]

Just and anecdote.


Jake Tapper

@jaketapper
Scenes from Des Moines 47 where only Sanders Warren and Buttigieg were viable after first vote:

Woman who had hoped to make Klobuchar viable now backing Warren;
Biden leader ruefully joins Buttigieg;
Sanders person so passionate she alienates Yang person who joins Buttigieg

Sanders person so passionate she alienates Yang person - story of the night?

[Fugus]

People who say "agree to disagree" are usually in the wrong, Jan.

Why didn't Bernie just run 3rd party if the Democrats are so corrupt?

You really are that dense aren't you? You must love Trump in office if you think it would be better for Sanders to go 3rd party in our current system.

As soon as 3rd parties become viable without poaching votes in the process and becoming spoilers, then your comment has water but not until then.