[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

But am I burned out if I want to actively play? I've gone over this to death I just want a reason to play. Some kind of repeatable challenging content, some kind of reward system that feels meaningful (bear in mind I don't think WoW's is meaningful either). Side content that is actually enjoyable

Yes, you are burnt out of what the game currently offers, which is why you wish for sth. else.
You still like the game universe/world as such and wish to spend time in it, I can understand that.

I too experienced that kind of disconnect with WoW. The result: I ignore most of the games systems and only do the story. Ccontrary to you, I was burned out of "challenging" content, which boils down to hitting my head against a wall until THAT dude gets to press his keys in the right order.
Now I satiate the urge for challenge at the piano instead of videogames .... more "meaningful" that way. Only downside: Not I am always "that guy". ._.

[Kazgrel]

I appreciate your viewpoint and it does offer a unique perspective, but it's not particularly relevant to my point.

Because you experienced everything in one continuous swing everything would naturally feel new and fresh. You also didn't have to deal with most of the side content when it was relevant (as most of it is left to rot once an expansion is over), which is another area that usually suffers from the "same old, same old".



Like you admit, it's very hard to see it in the manner you experienced it. It's not about being able to predict dungeons, raids, alliance raids, etc. That stuff is annoying, but hardly an issue.

It's the supplementary systems that us being able to predict that sucks. How the relic will be required, what turn ins will look like, how Diadem 1,2, and even 3 (Eureka) will be. How many skills we'll get each expansion, etc. What the raids will look like # of bosses/shape of room and the itemization etc. (Your doom train example was a good counter to that point, but a rare circumstance. In fact I quite enjoyed that fight).



With respect to WoW there are a few changes they made that I did like in BfA. I really did enjoy the essences and leveling them up. It was a fun collectible game that got me into content types I don't play as often to get powers I wanted. I enjoyed that. I also really liked how they added player characters in cutscenes and took a more story driven approach. Clearly a point borrowed from FF14 and a much appreciated one. Their raid design teams had some really cool and innovative fights, Jaina, Mekkatorque, MOTHER, Azshara, etc. Really cool mechanical interactions. Their new AI tech is decent, and I'm excited to see if it gets improved/reused. Islands and Warfronts were by far my biggest let downs. I was expecting Islands to be fun and enjoyable and they were the furthest thing from it. Warfronts even more so. Even the Heroic iterations barely felt like a baseline.



But am I burned out if I want to actively play? I've gone over this to death I just want a reason to play. Some kind of repeatable challenging content, some kind of reward system that feels meaningful (bear in mind I don't think WoW's is meaningful either). Side content that is actually enjoyable.



At work so I can't verify your link, BUT I did want to thank you for at least putting an hourly metric out there. Most people always incorrectly are like oh I got to end game in a week, but neglect to mention they don't have a job and crushed 60 hours of play into a week.

I usually cite 100+ hours, watching cutscenes to get to endgame, so 60 skipping seems reasonable, add in another 10-15 to finish ShB and it fits.

Thanks again.



I always hate this statement though. Taking a break to play other games should be commonly understood, not hailed as a game feature. Stuff like WoW's AP grind is contradictory to this in the worst way, but stuff like FF14's is too far the other way. I don't want to play all the time, and I don't want to play for 3 weeks every 6 months and be done either. There should be a middle ground.

While I stand by my previous post, for a game to charge per month for access, it also establishes the idea there will always be something coming down the pipe.

GW2, in its current state, is far worse off about encouraging folks to log on once every 4-6 months. I went back to it a year after PoF xpac released, completed OG world map, story, PoF story and all of the living world episodes for both HoT (first xpac) and PoF...all in a span of 6-8 weeks tops. Stuff that was rolled out over course of nearly 4 years at that point.

Scaling dungeon system like Mythic + would be a great way to revive some dungeons, especially if we had them at max level so also had all our abilities on hand.

Used to I would vehemently oppose the idea of "play other games". But I also realize I don't have as much spare time on hand to where I can spend near part time job amounts of time on a single game if I want to try out other stuff, be it games or otherwise.

[Rogalicus]

GW2, in its current state, is far worse off about encouraging folks to log on once every 4-6 months. I went back to it a year after PoF xpac released, completed OG world map, story, PoF story and all of the living world episodes for both HoT (first xpac) and PoF...all in a span of 6-8 weeks tops. Stuff that was rolled out over course of nearly 4 years at that point.

I don't really understand that argument, you did equivalent of finishing MSQ. My first foray into FFXIV took 2 months from level 1 to all level 70 (cap at the moment) endgame content and that was really pretty much all content they've added over 5 years.

[Kazgrel]

I don't really understand that argument, you did equivalent of finishing MSQ. My first foray into FFXIV took 2 months from level 1 to all level 70 (cap at the moment) endgame content and that was really pretty much all content they've added over 5 years.

Not mentioned were doing world exploration, 100%ing all zones including the LW maps, farming all masteries save for the few in raids, and completing all the mount collections save for Skyscale (which had just been released last I played). All crafting professions maxed save for Jewler and Cooking since iirc they just recently had their cap raised to 500 or are about to (at 400 currently). Forgot all those tidbits since I was posting while about to head back to work from lunch break.

"But you didn't do the raids"

If there was a Duty Finder version, I would've at least done those. Hard to be motivated to raid there when 1. None of my friends play the game anymore and 2. I already have full ascended gear. The former is definitely a personal problem, of course.

[Rogalicus]

Not mentioned were doing world exploration, 100%ing all zones including the LW maps, farming all masteries save for the few in raids, and completing all the mount collections save for Skyscale (which had just been released last I played). All crafting professions maxed save for Jewler and Cooking since iirc they just recently had their cap raised to 500 or are about to (at 400 currently). Forgot all those tidbits since I was posting while about to head back to work from lunch break.

"But you didn't do the raids"

If there was a Duty Finder version, I would've at least done those. Hard to be motivated to raid there when 1. None of my friends play the game anymore and 2. I already have full ascended gear. The former is definitely a personal problem, of course.

Well, you also forgot to mention fractals or PvP, but OK. I wasn't trying to dismiss your post, I just said that you can easily rush both games to current content. In FFXIV you'll also be doing most of the game's content while leveling, in GW2 most of the content wasn't designed to take a lot of time in the first place, including lack of gear grind. Retention comes down to how invested you are in the game's content, for me every FFXIV patch boils down to "story, dungeon, story, raid/trial, unsub", that takes three hours at most. I'd even save more by subbing once in the end of expansion when there's at least week (with 2-3 hours per night) of content. Or wait, I might save even more by buying next expansion and getting value of two at the price of one. Or wait, I can actually drop the game until it's on deathbed and save even more. I hope my thought process is clear enough.

[Granyala]

I hope my thought process is clear enough.

If s/o earns so little that "saving" 12bucks a month is an issue, subscription MMOs are the wrong genre to look at. Oo
Yeah, MMOs don't have much content. Most "content" consists of repeatedly doing the same thing over and over while deriving the actual fun not so much from the gameplay itself but from the social interactions with other players.

If you only do everything once, in order to see it, you will be done quite quickly.

[Aoyi]

FFXIV does have a lot of content. I re-subbed in April and have played almost every day and I'm still not done. The fact that they gave every class their own stories along with the MSQ and zone storylines has kept me busy for the last 9 months. If you are someone who just wants to rush to max and raid, then I feel you are missing the best parts of the game. There is so much more to FF than raiding or PVP. I feel like there is a patch with some content every 3 weeks or so being added. It may be an hour long holiday storyline, or a crossover event, or Alliance raid, trial, or server wide crafting event, but there is always something out to do. I've been very happy with it.

[Rogalicus]

If s/o earns so little that "saving" 12bucks a month is an issue, subscription MMOs are the wrong genre to look at. Oo

It's not like money are the problem, but when you compare trickle of content every MMO gives you compared to single player games of similar price, it's hard to take it seriously.

If you only do everything once, in order to see it, you will be done quite quickly.

That was my point, if you are invested, you can really care about getting new skins or progressing further in current savage/ultimate. I don't really care about progress or gear and don't enjoy basic gameplay because it feels like I don't have anything to do with my character, there's no choice of gear, no buildcrafting, most of the time even gameplay is on rails. FFXIV is American Laser Games of MMO scene.

[Katchii]

It's not like money are the problem, but when you compare trickle of content every MMO gives you compared to single player games of similar price, it's hard to take it seriously.

That was my point, if you are invested, you can really care about getting new skins or progressing further in current savage/ultimate. I don't really care about progress or gear and don't enjoy basic gameplay because it feels like I don't have anything to do with my character, there's no choice of gear, no buildcrafting, most of the time even gameplay is on rails. FFXIV is American Laser Games of MMO scene.

To you. Which is fine, but it's not like that to everyone.

[Hyral]

FFXIV does have a lot of content. I re-subbed in April and have played almost every day and I'm still not done. The fact that they gave every class their own stories along with the MSQ and zone storylines has kept me busy for the last 9 months. If you are someone who just wants to rush to max and raid, then I feel you are missing the best parts of the game. There is so much more to FF than raiding or PVP. I feel like there is a patch with some content every 3 weeks or so being added. It may be an hour long holiday storyline, or a crossover event, or Alliance raid, trial, or server wide crafting event, but there is always something out to do. I've been very happy with it.

Nice to see someone who shares my feelings and experience. I'm the type of player who really just rather do something once and be done with it, I despise grinding with a passion, and I've really enjoyed this game so far. I know at some point I'll run out of things but it's not going to be any time soon and like you said even if the new content they add is small and casual at least it's consistent.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I think the formula works pretty well and the game's continued success is a reflection of that fact. I do have a few gripes - such as the lack of character customisation - but the game does enough to keep me entertained when I play it and I haven't run out of things to do in-game yet.

I quite like that I can take a break and play other games. I'll be doing as much when the remakes of Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy 7 come out in April. I agree with Kazela in regards to the suggestion to try out other games.

Nice to see someone who shares my feelings and experience. I'm the type of player who really just rather do something once and be done with it, I despise grinding with a passion, and I've really enjoyed this game so far. I know at some point I'll run out of things but it's not going to be any time soon and like you said even if the new content they add is small and casual at least it's consistent.

I think the notion of "there must always be something for me to do in the game" comes from people's desires for their beloved experience to go on for forever. It's rare for you to find a game you fall love with. Once you fall in love with a game, you gobble it all up, and once you've consumed it, there is that hollow feeling inside of you. Sure, you can replay the game, but you can never recapture that feeling when you first discovered it, and those experiences only come once every so often.

People found FFXIV and fell in love with it, and they don't want the honeymoon period to end. They want for there to always be something new to consume in this game they love. Subscription MMOs like FFXIV have a leg up over most games in that new content is being constantly developed for it. Ofcourse, due to the realities of development, new content updates can only come so often, and the devs certainly cannot create content faster than players consume it. Thus, leading to player frustration when they've consumed everything and they still want that experience ("there is nothing to do!").

[Granyala]

FFXIV does have a lot of content.

If you start now: yes. If you have played it continuously since release: nope. New patch takes maybe 5 hours, the rest is based on repeating stuff you already experienced and that is not "content" by my definition.

Only thing that takes longer to experience are savage raids, because groups need a lot of time to learn to defeat the bosses.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't really care about progress or gear and don't enjoy basic gameplay because it feels like I don't have anything to do with my character, there's no choice of gear, no buildcrafting, most of the time even gameplay is on rails. FFXIV is American Laser Games of MMO scene.

Yup, only thing that makes progress relevant are savage raids, because these are the only content that gives you an an actual need for gear.
Personally, I like that I don't have to worry about some BS stats etc for non savage content. To me, how a given gear piece looks on Ifalna is far more interesting than some lame stats that will be invalidated come next patch anyway. That's also why WoWs gearing model falls flat for me.

Hell, even in my mythic raiding/savage days I barely cared about the stats. I never got hyped because I got some drop or sth, to me gear was merely a tool to be used to progress further. T4 robes excluded. Man, I wanted these really badly..... for the looks, obviously. Draenei wears them to this day.

- - - Updated - - -

It's rare for you to find a game you fall love with. Once you fall in love with a game, you gobble it all up, and once you've consumed it, there is that hollow feeling inside of you. Sure, you can replay the game, but you can never recapture that feeling when you first discovered it, and those experiences only come once every so often.

Wise words... last game I had that feeling in was Xenoblade Chronicles.
Man I even grinded to 99 in order to kill the super bosses. ME .... grinding... that tells you how much I adored the game. Yeah, I really was feelin' it.

Sometimes I wish I could just delete memories and experience games like this all over again.

[dope_danny]

So i'm guessing creation magic can be stored like a one use item and not-adberts going to use it to bring a copy of dalamund to crash on the alt crystal tower or something.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Was that Doga @1:38?

Nice to see that downtown Garlemald has nice looking stone architecture and isn't just metal building. Reminds me of Goug.

How did Cid end up on Norvrandt? Or did we all travel to a different location accessible by both worlds?

Holy crap Zenos followed the WoL to the First run away run away (glad they're keeping his jacket outfit from Dissida, it looked cool)

Was that Zodiark's voice at the end?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wait, it's the tank role quest guy, not Doga. (They all look the same! We have like, four or five different dark and handsome midlanders)

Maybe the other role quest characters will show up?

[Rogalicus]

Yup, only thing that makes progress relevant are savage raids, because these are the only content that gives you an an actual need for gear.

It's not the only one, constant gear treadmill means that in couple of patches your gear becomes so bad you can't even do story dungeon with it. I honestly don't understand why game works that way, gear is absolutely bland and there's no choice, so vertical progression doesn't feel rewarding at all. It's just annoying timegate.

How did Cid end up on Norvrandt? Or did we all travel to a different location accessible by both worlds?

My guess is it's not Norvrandt, it's G'raha's flashback about bad ending times before he traveled to First.

[Granyala]

It's not the only one, constant gear treadmill means that in couple of patches your gear becomes so bad you can't even do story dungeon with it. I honestly don't understand why game works that way, gear is absolutely bland and there's no choice, so vertical progression doesn't feel rewarding at all. It's just annoying timegate.

That is only an issue for people that do not play continuously.
MMOs are still designed to encourage a continued subscription and activity for ... rather obvious reasons.

Compared to the MMOs of eld, FF-XIV and WoW are both very mild in that regard.

[Hyral]

So i'm guessing creation magic can be stored like a one use item and not-adberts going to use it to bring a copy of dalamund to crash on the alt crystal tower or something.

Kinda. The ascians used crystals (and maybe other means we are about to find out) to store designs for others to recreate them with creation magic. You learn this from a quest chain that's part of the aether quests to unlock flying in the Tempest. My first thought was they were going to try to apply this to their initial idea of transferring the archons' souls with white auracite. I think what we see of Dalamud might just be some echo shenanigans, reliving that moment in the past. We'll find out!

Nice to see that downtown Garlemald has nice looking stone architecture and isn't just metal building. Reminds me of Goug.

Was that Zodiark's voice at the end?

I have a strong feeling that's not Garlemald given what they said on the Live Letter. Though I dunno if you might consider that spoilers so I'll leave it at that.
Also it seemed to me the last line in the trailer was implied to be from Elidibus.

[Katchii]

It's not the only one, constant gear treadmill means that in couple of patches your gear becomes so bad you can't even do story dungeon with it. I honestly don't understand why game works that way, gear is absolutely bland and there's no choice, so vertical progression doesn't feel rewarding at all. It's just annoying timegate.

It's a necessary evil IMO, and it doesn't feel so bad if it's happening organically as you play normally. Increasing character power IS rewarding, the problem is when it feels time gated like it can when you're coming back after a long break and hit the ilevel wall after casually running through the MSQ...it's jarring. On that front, I agree with you.

The problem is, the only way I can think to "fix" that jarring ilevel wall is to reward the appropriate ilevel gear through the MSQ so you can tackle the higher content as it comes, but that even further invalidates the gear treadmill because if you can just do the MSQ to get the gear you need, why run dungeons and get tomestones at all?

[Granyala]

It's a necessary evil IMO, and it doesn't feel so bad if it's happening organically as you play normally. Increasing character power IS rewarding

Character power in a vacuum means absolutely nothing.
Getting stronger is only rewarding if that strength makes defeating meaner stuff possible.

If the content is already faceroll on I330, why should I care that I can faceroll it a few seconds faster in I350? (Hint: I don't.)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

With G'raha Tia coming back for 5.0, the Cid raids playing a crucial role in the backstory, now Return to Ivalice coming back to the forefront of the story, and now a rolequest character entering the MSQ, and it's only a matter of time before Unukalhai comes back for the final showdown with Eldibus.

At this rate, the pirates from the Void Ark storyline have a good chance of showing up in the MSQ as well. Maybe they will get their hands on a spaceship and fly us to the moon, if we don't get to bring Eden with us to the Source.