Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Hobb]

So, when are we supposed to get the results?

Ive been alive 40+ years and Ive never seen an election of any type, from City Council to the Presidency, take longer than a single night to feed us the results. What the hell happened? Did the counting location explode in flames or something?

They're saying sometime today. What time, not sure.

[Elegiac]

This is really just getting tiresome at this point.

> "The way the caucus is being run is suspect and it means the DNC is corrupt!"
> "The DNC doesn't run the state caucus."
> "Well they should be pressuring the IDP to make their elections more transparent!"
> "They did. Bernie's supporters objected."
> "They only did that because the DNC is so corrupt and they don't trust them!"
> "Why do they want someone they don't trust to unilaterally intervene in an election they already think is suspect?"
> "THIS IS WHY WE LOST IN 2016!"

The logic loops on itself so much that Karen is wearing it as a scarf while picking up her PSL from Starbucks. It really just boils down to the fact that Bernie's supporters hold a grudge against the DNC and endeavour to take shots at it whenever possible regardless how untrue or illogical the criticism is.

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It's 6:45 AM on a Tuesday and I'm defending the DNC. I need a blunt.

[Skroe]

IDP=/=Iowa.

I'm pretty sure everyone who voted in the Iowa primaries is feeling pretty damn angry with the IDP right about now.

The DNC could easily argue that when they come down on the IDP they are doing so on behalf of Iowa, Iowans and Iowan primary voters.

It's not a difficult argument to make.

It’s too detailed of one for the rubes though. Simple messages work. And a Republican message of “Democrats think Iowans are messy fools” is a simple one.

[Mihalik]

This is really just getting tiresome at this point.

> "The way the caucus is being run is suspect and it means the DNC is corrupt!"
> "The DNC doesn't run the state caucus."
> "Well they should be pressuring the IDP to make their elections more transparent!"
> "They did. Bernie's supporters objected."
> "They only did that because the DNC is so corrupt and they don't trust them!"
> "Why do they want someone they don't trust to unilaterally intervene in an election they already think is suspect?"
> "THIS IS WHY WE LOST IN 2016!"

The logic loops on itself so much that Karen is wearing it as a scarf while picking up her PSL from Starbucks. It really just boils down to the fact that Bernie's supporters hold a grudge against the DNC and endeavour to take shots at it whenever possible regardless how untrue or illogical the criticism is.

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It's 6:45 AM on a Tuesday and I'm defending the DNC. I need a blunt.

You are jumping around between only tangentially related issues.

There are really only 3 problems here.

1, The DNC has a corruption and credibility problem.
2, The DNC has a communication problem.
3, The IDP fucked up the caucuses.

All these issues need fixing, but the immediate problem is that the IDP fucked up. To address this the DNC needs to improve its credibility by improving its communication. It needs to take a stance on the issue and communicate how it will create clarity and transparency, thus addressing the credibility problem.

The fact that the DNC party bigwigs are having backdoor communications but without actually communicating with the campaigns or the public they are not helping with the credibility problem or the communication problem. Tom Perez should be alternating between being on CNN and Fox News driving home a message on how they will guarantee transparency NOW, with this specific issue.

If the DNC wants to fix these issues long term it needs to re-establish good faith with the base so people would actually trust them with running all the primaries.

[Muzjhath]

You are jumping around between only tangentially related issues.

There are really only 3 problems here.

1, The DNC has a corruption and credibility problem.
2, The DNC has a communication problem.
3, The IDP fucked up the caucuses.

All these issues need fixing, but the immediate problem is that the IDP fucked up. To address this the DNC needs to improve its credibility by improving its communication. It needs to take a stance on the issue and communicate how it will create clarity and transparency, thus addressing the credibility problem.

The fact that the DNC party bigwigs are having backdoor communications but without actually communicating with the campaigns or the public they are not helping with the credibility problem or the communication problem. Tom Perez should be alternating between being on CNN and Fox News driving home a message on how they will guarantee transparency NOW, with this specific issue.

If the DNC wants to fix these issues long term it needs to re-establish good faith with the base so people would actually trust them with running all the primaries.

The DNC is a political machine that has it's own interest. It is in the interest of said machine that a person who's been a paying member who's helped other people come through it and get into office and other stuff out. Since they share values.
The DNC doesn't have the interest to have some maverick kidnap them and their machinery.

The astounding thing isn't that the Democratic Party tried to influence people to vote for candidates other than Sanders. It's that they let Sanders onto their ballot without having been a paying member of the party for several years first.

As for the current issue. It's as been presented. Complex. And no matter what is done no one will be happy. The whole primary scene is (for me, a european) just a bad clusterfuck. The party should just have a closed convention and deside between paying members. No TV, no big shit. Nothing.

[Telogrus]

The DNC is a political machine that has it's own interest. It is in the interest of said machine that a person who's been a paying member who's helped other people come through it and get into office and other stuff out. Since they share values.
The DNC doesn't have the interest to have some maverick kidnap them and their machinery.

The astounding thing isn't that the Democratic Party tried to influence people to vote for candidates other than Sanders. It's that they let Sanders onto their ballot without having been a paying member of the party for several years first.

As for the current issue. It's as been presented. Complex. And no matter what is done no one will be happy. The whole primary scene is (for me, a european) just a bad clusterfuck. The party should just have a closed convention and deside between paying members. No TV, no big shit. Nothing.

Ah yes, the good old “There’s nothing morally reprehensible about the DNC spitting on the face of democracy because they’re a private organization!” What a joke. You know, adultery isn’t illegal, but it’s still morally reprehensible, and I doubt that anyone would disagree with that.

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And the winner of the Iowa Democratic Caucus is... Donald Trump!

[Mihalik]

The DNC is a political machine that has it's own interest. It is in the interest of said machine that a person who's been a paying member who's helped other people come through it and get into office and other stuff out. Since they share values.
The DNC doesn't have the interest to have some maverick kidnap them and their machinery.

The astounding thing isn't that the Democratic Party tried to influence people to vote for candidates other than Sanders. It's that they let Sanders onto their ballot without having been a paying member of the party for several years first.

As for the current issue. It's as been presented. Complex. And no matter what is done no one will be happy. The whole primary scene is (for me, a european) just a bad clusterfuck. The party should just have a closed convention and deside between paying members. No TV, no big shit. Nothing.

That's not how the US system works. Whether you like it or not. Furthermore such a system would be deeply unpopular in the US.

[Telogrus]

That's not how the US system works. Whether you like it or not. Furthermore such a system would be deeply unpopular in the US.

They act like we’re saying that what the DNC is doing is illegal, but we’re really saying that what they’re doing is horrible and anti-democratic

[Milchshake]

I used to think German Nihilists were just a comedic punchline the Cohen brothers invented for a movie.

But now I see they're real, and way more awful in real life.


But hey, the Seattle Seven was just me and six other guys.

[Endus]

You are jumping around between only tangentially related issues.

There are really only 3 problems here.

1, The DNC has a corruption and credibility problem.
2, The DNC has a communication problem.
3, The IDP fucked up the caucuses.

The first, not particularly. A lot of people can't seem to grasp that the DNC isn't an impartial entity, by virtue of being a political party, run to push a particular agenda, and further the interests of its members.

That gets presented as "corruption" by people who either do not understand a damned thing about democratic elections, or those gaslighting and lying to confuse the former even further.

The 2nd and 3rd, though, sure. The DNC needs to be more open in their communications, including telling lairs and con artists to fuck off with their bullshit rather than trying to be polite about it, and the IDP fucked this caucus up.

Ah yes, the good old “There’s nothing morally reprehensible about the DNC spitting on the face of democracy because they’re a private organization!” What a joke. You know, adultery isn’t illegal, but it’s still morally reprehensible, and I doubt that anyone would disagree with that.

Literally the entire point of a political party is to act as a collective to push a particular agenda, chosen by its members. That is democracy.

Also, regarding the "adultery" thing, define that for me real quick.
Because if you mean "sex outside of marriage", there's nothing wrong with extramarital sex, morally speaking.
And if you mean "cheating on your spouse", then it's as illegal as any breach of contract; adultery is one of a small handful of guaranteed get-out-of-marriage-free slam-dunk divorce options. You're not gonna go to jail, but you could lose more than half your stuff, and be kicked out of your house. Significant legal consequences.

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They act like we’re saying that what the DNC is doing is illegal, but we’re really saying that what they’re doing is horrible and anti-democratic

It would really help if folks like yourself could at least admit that primaries and caucuses aren't actually part of the American electoral process.

Cause they aren't.

They're a privately-run process by a private organization, who can make up whatever rules they want to for them.

And that's without pointing out that the process is "democratic", by any definition.

[Nurasu]

This is really just getting tiresome at this point.

> "The way the caucus is being run is suspect and it means the DNC is corrupt!"
> "The DNC doesn't run the state caucus."
> "Well they should be pressuring the IDP to make their elections more transparent!"
> "They did. Bernie's supporters objected."
> "They only did that because the DNC is so corrupt and they don't trust them!"
> "Why do they want someone they don't trust to unilaterally intervene in an election they already think is suspect?"
> "THIS IS WHY WE LOST IN 2016!"

The logic loops on itself so much that Karen is wearing it as a scarf while picking up her PSL from Starbucks. It really just boils down to the fact that Bernie's supporters hold a grudge against the DNC and endeavour to take shots at it whenever possible regardless how untrue or illogical the criticism is.

- - - Updated - - -

It's 6:45 AM on a Tuesday and I'm defending the DNC. I need a blunt.

My understanding is that the DNC pressured the IDP to keep three tallies, including the number of people that supported candidates at the start of the caucus, which caused them to alter their rules. Maybe I misunderstood that. The fault would still lie with the IDP for fucking up the final rules for divying everything up, but the DNC may have caused it.

[Martymark]

If Biden was in the lead last night, would the DNC be "unable" to release the results a day later?

[Somewhatconcerned]

If Biden was in the lead last night, would the DNC be "unable" to release the results a day later?

Certainly makes you wonder.

Especially with all the recent negative comments towards Bernie from Obama, Hilary and Kerry.

Makes you wonder, indeed.

[Nurasu]

Certainly makes you wonder.

Especially with all the recent negative comments towards Bernie from Obama, Hilary and Kerry.

Makes you wonder, indeed.

Yes, I'm sure the DNC would undertake the largest cover up in its history to hamstring Bernie in one caucus, especially with all of the national attention from delayed results.

[starlord]

Certainly makes you wonder.

Especially with all the recent negative comments towards Bernie from Obama, Hilary and Kerry.

Makes you wonder, indeed.

what does it make you wonder?

[Rokom]

If Biden was in the lead last night, would the DNC be "unable" to release the results a day later?

Certainly makes you wonder.

Especially with all the recent negative comments towards Bernie from Obama, Hilary and Kerry.

Makes you wonder, indeed.

Fuck off with the conspiratorial bullshit. This is an issue of people trying out new systems without properly training others on them or testing them first.

Occam's or Hanlon's razor, take your pick.

[zenkai]

Interesting reads

Iowa caucus: 'I'm the winner' says Trump amid Democrat chaos

The story of Iowa vote? 'This system sucks'[Video]

[Martymark]

Fuck off with the conspiratorial bullshit. This is an issue of people trying out new systems without properly training others on them or testing them first.

Occam's or Hanlon's razor, take your pick.

So you are on team "The Democrats are absurdly, grossly, incompetent and can't even manage their own caucus"?

[Nurasu]

So you are on team "The Democrats are absurdly, grossly, incompetent and can't even manage their own caucus"?

The same thing happened with Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, to the point they even reversed the result. Apparently Republicans are just as inept.

[starlord]

So you are on team "The Democrats are absurdly, grossly, incompetent and can't even manage their own caucus"?

Campaigns were apoplectic Monday, demanding answers from the party as time ticked away and they feared every moment lost would undermine the credibility and impact of the results.
The issues stemmed from a glitch with a reporting app, which precinct chairs complained was not functioning properly. The party on Tuesday said the app was reporting only partial data.

“We have determined that this was due to a coding issue in the reporting system. This issue was identified and fixed,” the party said in a statement. “The application’s reporting issue did not impact the ability of precinct chairs to report data accurately.”

Staff then had to enter data manually. “This took longer than expected. As part of our investigation, we determined with certainty that the underlying data collected via the app was sound," the statement said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...e-today-110664
they admitted they messed up, even biden is mad they messed up.