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  1. #21
    DK player since wotlk to MoP (not included).

    I hate dk in BFA. I don't like Unholy's wound mechanics, and I don't like Frost's fishing for buffs and trying to line up cds with the buffs.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    I've been playing Unholy for the first time since Wrath recently, I think the only thing that bugs me a bit about it is that your DPS is kinda dependent on how good your group is/how many enemies are being pulled.



    By that I mean, when I do 14's or so and the tanks pull big I do great, but when I was helping a friend do some single digit keys where the tank pulled only two enemies at a time my damage was incredibly mediocre despite out-gearing everyone there.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  3. #23
    Yeah I just ran Freehold +5 and was only doing 20k damage. This DK is only i429 but still thought I'd be doing much higher. Seemed like by the time I got going with all minions and using my 5 main spells the pack was already down and moving into next group.

    Maybe try a Raid? I haven't seriously Raider since NH ToS in Legion, and have done zero BfA raids, buy maybe give this DK a spin in there?
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2020-02-04 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    So to KISS ( keep this simple stupid ) I start with Outbreak + Dark Trans + DnD, then the main three of FS + SS, EP, and rinse and repeat those final three?
    Remember to Apocalypse with 4 wounds first, then you pop wounds with SS afterwards.

    Another tip, macro /petattack to a couple of your main abilities.
    I spent a whole day doing shitty dps cause my pet was on passive lol
    Example:

    #showtooltip Outbreak
    /petattack
    /startattack
    /cast Outbreak

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Ok thanks will give this a try. How are my talents?
    they seem fine - though if you find yourself doing good about using DnD a lot, you may get better results using clawing shadows instead of all will serve.
    you've got a decently hefty amount of mastery, and clawing shadows A. does more damage baseline than scourge strike, and B. is 100% shadow damage, so bypasses NPC armor entirely and is fully boosted by your mastery.

    if you don't use DnD a lot or want to get kind of fiddly with optimizing clawing shadow usage all will serve is totally fine, don't get me wrong.

    i also do strongly recommend you try playing around with soul reaper, it can be a little funky to get used to at first because it's fairly long cooldown, but once you get into the habit of using it in the middle of pulls it can feel pretty impactful to the flow of playing unholy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    they seem fine - though if you find yourself doing good about using DnD a lot, you may get better results using clawing shadows instead of all will serve.
    you've got a decently hefty amount of mastery, and clawing shadows A. does more damage baseline than scourge strike, and B. is 100% shadow damage, so bypasses NPC armor entirely and is fully boosted by your mastery.

    if you don't use DnD a lot or want to get kind of fiddly with optimizing clawing shadow usage all will serve is totally fine, don't get me wrong.

    i also do strongly recommend you try playing around with soul reaper, it can be a little funky to get used to at first because it's fairly long cooldown, but once you get into the habit of using it in the middle of pulls it can feel pretty impactful to the flow of playing unholy.
    Thanks again sir. I switched talents to Clawing Shadows and Soul Reaper, plus I just got a i450 weapon, which was an upgrade and did the Runeforge, which I knew about, but forget to do on my earlier weapon.

    Just doing some World Quests at lunch, for the i445 emissary cache, and the local world bosses with like 350k health are going down easy. I just start with Outbreak, then get Dark Trans going, and then 1 Fester strike, drop DnD, and then Clawing Shadows 2 or 3 times until it goes on cd, and then usually have 2 Epidemics. Usually they already dead at that point, or before, but if still going, I may hit Death Coil if it procs, or maybe a Death Strike for quick health regen, and then start the rotation over again with 1 Festering Strike.

    Now I haven't done any Mythic dungeons yet, trying tonight

    So which Azerite traits should I be aiming for?
    Festermight #1?
    Magus of the Dead #2?
    Overwhelming Power #3?
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2020-02-04 at 07:17 PM.

  7. #27
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    You just sound like you lack haste.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    You just sound like you lack haste.
    Currently my haste is 16%, critical strike is 21%, Mastery is 47%, and Versatility is 6%.

    This is an alt, I don't play him much, until very recently. He's only i442 geared.
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2020-02-04 at 07:50 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Just doing some World Quests at lunch, for the i445 emissary cache, and the local world bosses with like 350k health are going down easy. I just start with Outbreak, then get Dark Trans going, and then 1 Fester strike, drop DnD, and then Clawing Shadows 2 or 3 times until it goes on cd, and then usually have 2 Epidemics. Usually they already dead at that point, or before, but if still going, I may hit Death Coil if it procs, or maybe a Death Strike for quick health regen, and then start the rotation over again with 1 Festering Strike.
    hang on, are you saying you're doing that for your single target rotation on mini bosses? i want to make sure i'm understanding you right, because if you are doing that on single target, you're doing it totally wrong.
    unholy is not like fury/ret where the single target and aoe rotations are the same except for maybe 1 button, they're basically totally different.

    for single target your rotation should be: FS > SS > repeat. on procs or if your RP is getting high, cast death coil.
    don't use epidemic or DnD on single target.

    So which Azerite traits should I be aiming for?
    Festermight #1?
    Magus of the Dead #2?
    Overwhelming Power #3?
    IMO:
    festermight 3x
    as many helchains as you can while maintaining 3x festermight
    tradewinds or meticulous scheming

    magus of the death is one of those interesting/weird traits where it's very good IF you build your entire gearset around it and have all the other pieces necessary to make it work, and it's not very good if you don't have every piece of that build.

    just FYI that build is:
    vision of perfection rk3 slotted as your major
    2x magus traits
    preferably 1x last surprise trait (not mandatory)

    if you have all of that, it's good. if you don't have all of that, it's pretty mediocre.

  10. #30
    I don't know why you would ever use Clawing Shadows for either AoE or Single Target.
    Infected Claws is our AoE talent, All Will Serve is our single/cleave talent. Don't use Clawing Shadows.

    Don't use Epidemic or D&D on single target fights.
    You could use D&D with the Pestilence talent, but at the end of the day it's very unreliable and very minimal gain for single target. You're better off with another SS instead.

  11. #31
    Well alrighty then LOL Guess I was totally F'ing up my Unholy play style here. Yeah Ret Paladin and Arms Warrior which are my two mains, really aren't massively different rotations for AOE vs single target, except like 1 spell for each; Divine Storm for Ret and Sweeping Strikes for Arms.

    First off, should I switch away from Clawing Shadows and go back to Infected Claws instead? I kind of liked CS for a bit today.

    Ok so for Unholy single bosses like World Quest guys with 350k health, or even the guys with 2,000k health that I can pretty much handle solo, I do one rotation, which would be; Festering Strike x 1 and Scourge Strike x 2 or 3, rinse and repeat, and add a Death Coil if proc, and that's it? No Outbreak to start with? Or Dark Trans?

    And then the AOE mob trash rotation is the longer; Outbreak x 1 + Dark Tran x 1 + Festering Strike x 1 + DnD x 1 + Scourge Strike X 2 or 3, and Epidemic X1

  12. #32
    The only reason why Unholy would even be considered "clunky" is if you have really low amounts of haste. Since in a standard raid encounter, you're usually sitting anywhere between 30-45% Haste.

    That is the only take-away that can make DKs "clunky", how the damage is distributed is a bit on the weird side though.

    Single-target damage is mostly your pet, unfortunately, and some bosses were/are still bugged (Ilgynoth's big everyone-has-a-circle mechanic used to 1shot pets, unsure if it still does), some bosses in Temple still 1shot your pets, MOTHERLODE! boss that pushes you back also used to push back pets, boss in Waycrest Manor (the fat one that doesn't move) could not be hit with your pets etc - this made Unholy unbearable to play simply because of the fact that most of your DPS is tied to your skeleton buddies.

    The flow of Wounds, Scourge Strikes, Death Coils, Virulent Plagues and the CD usage is one of the most satisfying things with Unholy DKs.

    I look at it as a bit of a niche thing. Such as G'huun or Azshara fights "Army of the Dead" usage, since Army is really best used pre-pull, it costs a lot to use it mid-fight and you can be often left without any Runes to play around (even after they made it give 29 Runic Power).

    Overall, my wish for Shadowlands would be to make the spec more fluent and less Haste-reliant to not feel like "oh, I can't do anything right now", since Unholy DKs are usually in the trashbin until later in the expansion due to Haste creep.

    Currently (in 8.3), Unholy DKs are one of the more satisfying and awesome specs to play (so are Fury Warriors, Windwalker Monks and Retribution Paladins). At least that's my few cents that I have.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    First off, should I switch away from Clawing Shadows and go back to Infected Claws instead? I kind of liked CS for a bit today.
    there are pros and cons to each, one of the kinda neat things about unholy is there are several talent tiers that are not simply "pick this one talent all the time. the end" - depending on your playstyle and your gear, some can have advantages over others.
    if you're the type inclined to do so, sim your character at raidbots.com to see what they say.

    IMO the tier 1 talents are close enough (depending on how you use them) that especially for general play you can use any of them.

    Ok so for Unholy single bosses like World Quest guys with 350k health, or even the guys with 2,000k health that I can pretty much handle solo, I do one rotation, which would be; Festering Strike x 1 and Scourge Strike x 2 or 3, rinse and repeat, and add a Death Coil if proc, and that's it? No Outbreak to start with? Or Dark Trans?
    the answer to that is somewhat tricky... outbreak puts a dot on the target. that dot does a good amount of damage.
    will the target be alive long enough for the dot to do enough damage to warrant the rune you spent on it? if you're soloing something, the answer is going to be yes.
    if you're just dropping down on a rare being killed out in the world, well it's still a ranged ability you can use to tag things with, so either way get yourself in the habit of always starting with outbreak, and maintaining the dot.

    a single target rotation looks like this: outbreak > dark trans > FS > SS to pop the wounds > FS again > SS to pop the wounds > death coil is cast if: A. you have a sudden doom proc, or B. you're at or close to 100 runic power, or C. you're about to run out of runes and have a lot of RP and want to save it to dump into death coil to fish for rune regen procs.

    And then the AOE mob trash rotation is the longer; Outbreak x 1 + Dark Tran x 1 + Festering Strike x 1 + DnD x 1 + Scourge Strike X 2 or 3, and Epidemic X1
    that would be the quick bursty aoe that i suggested, yes. good for lower keys and faster kills.
    Last edited by Malkiah; 2020-02-04 at 10:42 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Currently my haste is 16%, critical strike is 21%, Mastery is 47%, and Versatility is 6%.

    This is an alt, I don't play him much, until very recently. He's only i442 geared.
    20% min haste is probably needed, plus as many overwhelming power traits as you can get

    haste proc corruption is also pretty good, especially in AoE

  15. #35
    Malkiah thank you, really I mean it. You've been extremely helpful here. And a few other people too, thanks.

    So how do I get more haste and increase it? Just look for specific +haste gear?
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2020-02-04 at 10:35 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Well alrighty then LOL Guess I was totally F'ing up my Unholy play style here. Yeah Ret Paladin and Arms Warrior which are my two mains, really aren't massively different rotations for AOE vs single target, except like 1 spell for each; Divine Storm for Ret and Sweeping Strikes for Arms.

    First off, should I switch away from Clawing Shadows and go back to Infected Claws instead? I kind of liked CS for a bit today.

    Ok so for Unholy single bosses like World Quest guys with 350k health, or even the guys with 2,000k health that I can pretty much handle solo, I do one rotation, which would be; Festering Strike x 1 and Scourge Strike x 2 or 3, rinse and repeat, and add a Death Coil if proc, and that's it? No Outbreak to start with? Or Dark Trans?

    And then the AOE mob trash rotation is the longer; Outbreak x 1 + Dark Tran x 1 + Festering Strike x 1 + DnD x 1 + Scourge Strike X 2 or 3, and Epidemic X1
    There is no reason to ever use Clawing Shadows. It's literally obsolete compared to the other 2 talents.

    Everyone who says otherwise simply doesnt care about dps. So if dps is actually the goal, don't ever use Clawing Shadows, there is literally no upside to it compared to the other two.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    There is no reason to ever use Clawing Shadows. It's literally obsolete compared to the other 2 talents.

    Everyone who says otherwise simply doesnt care about dps. So if dps is actually the goal, don't ever use Clawing Shadows, there is literally no upside to it compared to the other two.
    It's pretty niche but it has it's uses on some heavy movement fights. Personally, the only times i use it is in arena against rogue/mage 2's teams

  18. #38
    Warchief Felarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    There is no reason to ever use Clawing Shadows. It's literally obsolete compared to the other 2 talents.

    Everyone who says otherwise simply doesnt care about dps. So if dps is actually the goal, don't ever use Clawing Shadows, there is literally no upside to it compared to the other two.
    It has it's uses. One upside of Clawing Shadow will be it's range (30y), of course it requires some pre-planning with applying wounds before you run from melle range.

    As for overall UH feeling, yeah it's quite unique compared to other melle classes. As for clunkyness it requires around 20% unbuff haste and getting used to class "flow" between rp,runes and wounds then it plays miles better.

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord
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    It's the damn pet that ruins it for me.

    Anyway, ye overcapping and getting a sudden doom proc feels bad.. altho procs should feel good and sudden doom never feels good.
    that's it for me atleast.. I am trying everytime, but just don't like the playstyle.
    It's not that I don't understand how it works, it's just clunky and not very rewarding.


    Guys it's not a thing anymore to say: Frost is to easy and I get a tunnelsydrom, you can say that about every spec realy. In the end you are doing exactly the same thing the whole time in your rotation anyway

    Unholy bfa is one of the worst versions of unholy imo.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-02-05 at 06:35 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I typically play the Plate melee classes, big fan of Ret Paladin, and Fury / Arms Warrior. Both those classes and specs are pretty straightforward to play, and have fairly simple "rotations" or priorities as they call it since Cat.

    Ret is just making sure you have enough Holy Power for Temp's Verdict, or in M+ runs using Divine Storm, I like Ret it's fun and quick. And my Warrior both Fury and Arms are like 3 or 4 spells to keep going, rinse and repeat, and the play style is very fast.

    Now my Death Knight, he's an alt, not my main, I was a Frost player, but it became very boring, and just not a fan anymore. I love the concept idea with Unholy, spreading diseases and the creepy pet, seems like a Necromancer or unique class for WoW, almost like a plate Warlock. But for the life of me, I just can't comfortable with the rotation or priority play style. I typically play Mythic +, lower keys 10's and under, but seems Unholy almost needs more time to ramp up and get rolling, and M+ runs can be so fast, some enemies go down so too quick, maybe not enough time to really allow Unholy spec to get going?

    Or I seem to run out of runes not enough energy and long cool downs on spells, making it a frustrating spec to play, compared to my Ret Paladin, and Fury Warrior, which are easier to manage and always have power to cast spells.

    I have read up guides on wowhead and method sites, but playing it feels different, like not an easy smooth rotation. Any tips?

    I usually start off casting Outbreak, then Festering Strike, then a couple Scourge Strikes, and then Outbreak, and after that I start running low on runes or have long cool downs on either FS or SS. I also always keep Dark Transformation up Unholy Frenzy.

    What am I missing here?

    Character;
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...ljin/dethdingo
    Sorry little brother, but I just can't agree with all the bullshit that's been spat in here. And most of it by names, who play DKs and are active on this forum.

    First of all you must know that UHDK is one of the hardrockers of M+, where most pulls consist of 3+ enemies and fights last approximately 30 seconds per pull. It's also a god in single target bursting - which is exactly what M+ bosses are. I played UH last patch in the same M+ pool as you, as I'm mostly a filthy casual nowadays. My DK was 430 and I was shitting on all elitists who were banging their chests on their 1800 RiO.

    Your gear is a bit behind the curve, you don't have gems or enchants. Helchains is hands down the best AoE trait you can pick, followed by Magus and Festermight.

    Your talents. For M+ Infected Claws is better, as you don't want to spend runes on Festerings, you want them on your Scourges, so you can keep cleaving through Bursting Sores. You must always make sure your pet is attacking the same target as you though, so it's a habit you must teach yourself.

    Your rotation. UHDK is not a modern 2-button class so you must make sure you get your priorities straight. For aoe you Outbreak > DTransform > Fester > D&D > Scourge until 90 RP > dump RP into Epidemic. Don't forget that Scourge does extra aoe while mobs are sitting in your D&D. Don't forget to always dump your Sudden Doom procs, but not if the mobs are low on heath and you can squeeze in a couple more Epidemics just to optimize your damage uptime. For single target Outbreak > UHF > DTransform > Fester > Scourges > Death Coil between 85 and 95 RP so you don't overcap it.

    Random notes. Don't forget Runic Corruption has a higher chance to proc if you have more runes on cooldown, so don't always dump your RP completely. Be smart and make sure you got some/most runes on CD (without overcapping RP of course). Don't overcap your Wounds. There was a very good WeakAura that was displaying everything you need to track quite nicely, but I don't remember the name currently. Can check it out later in case you're interested.

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