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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Biden would have a much easier job flipping people who float between moderate Dems and Republican, and on paper those places where Clinton lost by slim margins.

    Bernie has to work a harder to convert the middle, not impossible.

    Biden would also be the source of dread and apathy among people who firmly consider themselves on the left side of US politics. Biden is threat to turnout, the greatest enemy of the Dems. Light blue areas are still vulnerable to going red, especially against a incumbent, red numbers are stable to a certain degree. The Dems are more vulnerable to turnout woes and Biden isn't the one who is going to bring people out in droves. Quite the opposite, as people are likely to say 'fuck, I'll just eat 4 more years of Trump as all of these Boomers fade out of politics'.

    The party is not enthusiastic for Biden. He has a static base while the majority not happy with Biden haven't come to agreement behind one candidate.
    The thing is, it doesn’t matter if the lefties stay home and fuck themselves if they live in California if Biden can stimulate centrist Democratic and independent turn out in swing states.

    There is no evidence of a wellspring of progressive voters in the crucial three states that will only turn out of a progressive is nominated, and in decisive numbers. They simply do not exist.

    The only question is who gets the most voters out,
    Regardless of center to left affiliation, in the places that Democrats need to win. The national popular vote is irrelevant. And if centrist Dems exist k. Greater numbers than progressives in swing states, the path is clear.

    That’s why I’ve been saying that the Democratic nominee should plan to win without a single BernieBro vote. They can’t be trusted. They can’t be relied upon. Appeal to far larger pools of centrists and independents that do exist in these crucial areas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    People are still somehow missing that nearly 50% of the people don't vote, you don't need conservatives to win.
    Your strategy is stupid. You appeal for voters you k is will turn out, not those you hope will turn out.

  2. #862
    I disagree. The Sanders spawned justice democrats were a huge key in the 2018 election. Relying on only never trump republicans and neo libs will get us 4 more years of Trump.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    People are still somehow missing that nearly 50% of the people don't vote, you don't need conservatives to win.
    And that's a trend that holds far more often than it doesn't. People like you may wish to sniff the fairy's asshole hoping it'll stop smelling like shit till your nose is plugged with feces. The rest of us prefer to deal with the actual reality that also includes many of those 50% of people who didn't vote still follow the normal American ideological break down so it's not a magical Bernie vote and Bernie has people he'll be influencing to stay home as well as bring out. You don't need conservatives, but considering everyone to the right of Marx is conservative you definitely do, but you do need independents/relatively centrist people at least relative to the American middle and that's a huge chunk of that 50% you're trying to get to vote.

    And again older generations are vastly more reliable at showing up to vote and even if they're democratic tend to be more conservative in their views. Younger voters aren't reliable at showing up. Guess who Bernie is popular with and not popular with?
    Last edited by shimerra; 2020-02-04 at 11:50 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
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  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I disagree. The Sanders spawned justice democrats were a huge key in the 2018 election. Relying on only never trump republicans and neo libs will get us 4 more years of Trump.
    Also, as someone living in a 1st world country, he is your best bet to come up to where we are

  5. #865
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    And that's a trend that holds far more often than it doesn't. People like you may wish to sniff the fairy's asshole hoping it'll stop smelling like shit till your nose is plugged with feces. The rest of us prefer to deal with the actual reality that also includes many of those 50% of people who didn't vote still follow the normal American ideological break down so it's not a magical Bernie vote and Bernie has people he'll be influencing to stay home as well as bring out.
    Or a lot of them don't vote because they can't or because both candidates are shit. Assuming they have the same make-up as the people who do vote is ridiculous I know you don't want a candidate who bothers going after the non-voters, but thats not really my problem. Not to mention how a higher voter turnout somehow always seem to benefit the dems.. A coincidence, right?

    I'm sure its just a coincidence that turnout is way higher in other democratic countries. But hey, keep buying whatever lies the DNC tells you about needing the pander to conservatives... although they should not dare to get endorsed by Rogan(without changing any policies), then it would suddenly be bad.


    Why exactly do you think poor people can't vote for their own interests if somebody who actually supports them shows up? Do you think that poorly of them?
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2020-02-04 at 11:54 PM.

  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    Also, as someone living in a 1st world country, he is your best bet to come up to where we are
    Ahh i can only dream of changing our "shithole country" status.

  7. #867
    In case anyone is wondering how the nation is taking the caucus results -


  8. #868
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Bernie's problem is actually pretty massive. Obama couldn't even get blue dog democrat's in those states to support a government option. And because of the EC the states with the strongest SOCIALISM IS EVIL CANCER THAT MUST BE PURGED AT ALL COSTS matter a lot to win the presidency. Hell that reaction is given to even fairly centrist/benign policy by nominal democrats. Bernie has an uphill battle in a lot of places. He's doing well and I hope he can but let's not forget the exact problem you downplayed is one of the actual reasons why he couldn't beat Hillary despite her being sandbagged with Benghazi, emails, and their raging about DNC issues.

    And keep in mind all you people about to chime in about how great Bernie is in polls against Trump. Hillary beat trump by 3 million votes. She lost because of where those votes where and where she needed the votes the most are often places he'll be weak or weaker without a significant change.

    Biden's actually relatively well liked and honestly it was his game to throw and as a gaffe machine that's his biggest problem. But as far as winning party support and converting the middle? Really the only people who think it's impossible are the knee jerk bernie bros as much as he's far from my first pick.
    He could not beat Hilary because he came in late as an outsider with a half assed campaign (trurer near the beginning). You can't just be an outsider who just pops up against someone who was virtually uncontested among Democrats. He had no real chance at the nomination whether you're someone who argues 'the process was rigged' or you argue against his policies.

    The difference between now and then is he is now known. People are more familiar with his takes, he has sold platforms that gotten quite a few people elected.

    The Dems are going to find those deep shades of blue fade if they think Biden is it.

    Biden on the ballot would be like voting for a slightly shitter sandwich for a lot of people, in which case the incumbent sandwich wins.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2020-02-04 at 11:58 PM.

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  9. #869
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y...owa-last-night

    Oh for fucks sake

    Pushing it out through the beta service isn't necessarily bad, keep it private and off the official stores.

    But the rest of it...what the fuck. They were pushing live changes to it up to 2 days before launch? They didn't bother testing at scale (we already knew)? They didn't field-test on varied devices to ensure compatibility?

    Much like the IDP leadership, Shadow Inc. needs to close up shop and go home. Both are an embarrassment to the Democratic party.

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I disagree. The Sanders spawned justice democrats were a huge key in the 2018 election. Relying on only never trump republicans and neo libs will get us 4 more years of Trump.
    Lefty public masturbation, right here folks.

    Democrats have their majority because Nancy Pelosi and her tram rebuilt the blue dogs and flipped trump voting districts.

    The Justice Democrat Tea Partyesqe cancer played no role in that. All they did was get a few lefties elected in places Democrats already win.

    Fundamentally you far left zealots want validation more than you want to win. It’s okay. We don’t honestly expect any of you to show up on Election Day. You can’t be counted on.

    Justice Democrats playing a key role in 2018 *snort* that’s a good one. It always comes down to progressives needing to lie to scale up their rather.m narrow influence.

  11. #871
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I disagree. The Sanders spawned justice democrats were a huge key in the 2018 election. Relying on only never trump republicans and neo libs will get us 4 more years of Trump.
    It will be the same "people will obviously rally against Trump" of 2016.

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  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Lefty public masturbation, right here folks.

    Democrats have their majority because Nancy Pelosi and her tram rebuilt the blue dogs and flipped trump voting districts.

    The Justice Democrat Tea Partyesqe cancer played no role in that. All they did was get a few lefties elected in places Democrats already win.

    Fundamentally you far left zealots want validation more than you want to win. It’s okay. We don’t honestly expect any of you to show up on Election Day. You can’t be counted on.

    Justice Democrats playing a key reopening 2017z *snort* that’s a good one.
    This. I mean...the Justice Democrats elected progressive candidates in safe Democratic districts.

    What. An. Accomplishment.

    They didn't get them elected in purple districts where more moderate Democrats won seats previously held by Republicans. For some sauce for others -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Democrats

    In the 2018 elections, 26 of the 79 candidates endorsed by Justice Democrats won their respective primary elections. Seven of these candidates won in the general election: Raúl Grijalva, Ro Khanna, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Pramila Jayapal. All seven won districts already held by Democrats. Khanna and Jayapal were both first elected in 2016 before joining Justice Democrats, and Grijalva was first elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002.
    Much accomplishment. So wow.

  13. #873
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    So from what I understand, both Sanders and Buttigieg got 10 delegates. How did Sanders lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    In case anyone is wondering how the nation is taking the caucus results -

    How great to see so much shitting on Buttigieg.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    It will be the same "people will obviously rally against Trump" of 2016.
    The big problem I see is that conservative democrats feel that they are owed the votes of the left and therefore don't have to do fucking anything to win over the left. So they only focus on winning over more conservatives who aren't the crazy far right brand Republicans are.

    This is not a winning strategy. You are owed no one's vote, you have to earn them.

  15. #875
    Man, I almost feel bad for Biden. Bet he didn't see that coming lmao.


    PS, votes still coming in. Bernie is showing slightly ahead at 62% reporting according to realclearpolitics (not sure why the number is different on some other sites) but we'll see.

  16. #876
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Politics sub on a WoW forum is a bit esoteric.
    That's not what I meant if you think that's what I meant. I mean people who post on political stories during free time view politics through a different lense. No necessarily better or worse.

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  17. #877
    So i take it the Bernie people are willing to poison the well to make a point? Yes the US needs very large changes but 2020 is not the time for it period, sure you may have heard this before but nominating Sanders in the current climate you will see 30 to 50 seats in the house literally switch from a D next to their name to an R out of spite.

  18. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Lefty public masturbation, right here folks.

    Democrats have their majority because Nancy Pelosi and her tram rebuilt the blue dogs and flipped trump voting districts.

    The Justice Democrat Tea Partyesqe cancer played no role in that. All they did was get a few lefties elected in places Democrats already win.

    Fundamentally you far left zealots want validation more than you want to win. It’s okay. We don’t honestly expect any of you to show up on Election Day. You can’t be counted on.

    Justice Democrats playing a key role in 2018 *snort* that’s a good one. It always comes down to progressives needing to lie to scale up their rather.m narrow influence.
    You aren't a democrat. Neither am I. We are only interested in the democratic party because "Our Party" (The one that pretended to be conservative) has turned into a raging dumpster fire of racism and corruption.

    So we are democrats due to lack of any other viable option, this is fine, but maybe stop picking fights with residents of this house when we are just guests. Democrats do not need a bunch of disgruntled conservatives telling liberals how to run their party. If you want to beat Trump, stop shitting on liberals. We need them, and we need to be friends with them until this shit is over.

  19. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    The big problem I see is that conservative democrats feel that they are owed the votes of the left and therefore don't have to do fucking anything to win over the left. So they only focus on winning over more conservatives who aren't the crazy far right brand Republicans are.

    This is not a winning strategy. You are owed no one's vote, you have to earn them.
    It's two conflicting ideas for the general election. One side says "if we turn out 100% in Democrat strongholds we win" the other says "If we flip X Trump districts we win."

    If the UK taught us anything it should be in a race between Fascism and Socialism, Fascism always wins.
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  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    So from what I understand, both Sanders and Buttigieg got 10 delegates. How did Sanders lose?



    How great to see so much shitting on Buttigieg.
    Statewide delegates. Pete is winning by 2%.

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