WarCraft III Megathread

[grandgato]

Hey its proberly a pretty good product if you have never played Warcraft 3 before.

But most people have. And for them, its not a new product, its a re-release of something they already played. In their eyes, nothing new was added with Reforged, so since you could have bought old WC3 for about 5-10$ before Reforged launched, its just as if Blizz just raised the price of the game by 300%.

No point discussing this further i guess.

[Gurluas]

I'll try to give it a fair objective look.

Pros:
- The models have been made with extreme fidelity to Warcraft and Canon, the ones who made the model are clearly Warcraft fans, even Antonidas uses his ICC staff. There's some blunders like the trolls without their heel toe, but in general it's an amazing attention to detail, and EVERY single unit has it's own unique model. Vanilla Wc3 used remade models.
- Some maps have been remade to be more true to canon and due to the limits of Wc3's development, the invasion of Quel'thalas in particular is really impressive, the High elves no longer feel like knock-off humans but have their own flail, and Quel'thalas is truly beautiful.
-Original graphics remain and are fully playable, the game has also been optimized to run better on modern systems.

Cons:
-The Lightning has issues with the new models, and the portrait lipsyncing while functional also makes the characters look emotionless as their emoting is far more bland.
-The horrible Custom map EULA not only makes a ton of ancient maps illegal, but it also literally denies you the right of any idea you develop in Wc3, absolutely horrible!!!
-The reimagined cutscenes have been cut in spite of still being advertised! This further compounds problem 1, as the old cutscenes were made with the original models in mind and they look bad with the current ones.
-Custom Campaigns are gone.
-A lot of Battle.net features have been cut, either directly or indirectly, examples being: Tournaments, Cross-Region Custom Games, Ladder, and more.
-This leaves Wc3 Reforged barely a remaster, in some ways it makes things worse. Furthermore it was said to be more than a remaster, and is still advertised as more than a remaster.

In conclusion: When I first saw the models being posted, I was amazed...But after realizing that almost everything I was hyped for was canned, even custom games were ruined, and the new cutscenes were likewise removed...I cannot recommend this game to anyone for the current price.

[Eazy]

When was the last time you've used Tournaments ?

Imagine asking people if they were using "tournament" mode.

Me? Every time it was 2v2 when Wc3 was in a decent state(without dischackers etc.). Just because you didn't use it, it doesn't mean they should've deleted that feature.

I'm not using any tampons, does that mean there shouldn't be any in the world?

The majority seem to be playing the game and not wanting a refund because they are enjoying it. Blizzard has given people a refund option, they stated they were working on improving it. I don't see why the continual outrage over a game.

Because they lost plenty of stuff the original game had.

People have right to complain. They butchered the game.
Of course most of the players are just playing for fun(random games where they win with some low-skill players or just play their TD - and that's totally fine, anyone should play in whatever they want as long as they're enoying it), but there was a part where people were making custom campaigns, wanted fair 2v2 games(right now you can fight with 2 totally random people that can even not know eatch other), wanted to check out other people win/loss ratios, have clans(which was a important part of the game in the beginning) etc.

It's stupid asking why people are mad, it's the same reason you can read about on almost every page of this thread(after like ~120 pages, when the game was launched). They are because they lost something that was originally in their game. Some people don't care about graphics as much as most of the people. They just wanted to play the game they had since... almost 20 years?

I remember when once a guy asked on this forum "Why do you guys care if we have less people in WoW now lol???" and the first comment was something like "I care, because most of my guild stopped playing WoW, so I no longer have fun in the game". What I mean is that people are diffrent, they want different things, they have different opinions. Just because something is right for you, it doesn't mean it's right for the other people/players. I hope you understand that.

[puddypounce]

I'll try to give it a fair objective look.

Pros:
- The models have been made with extreme fidelity to Warcraft and Canon, the ones who made the model are clearly Warcraft fans, even Antonidas uses his ICC staff. There's some blunders like the trolls without their heel toe, but in general it's an amazing attention to detail, and EVERY single unit has it's own unique model. Vanilla Wc3 used remade models.
- Some maps have been remade to be more true to canon and due to the limits of Wc3's development, the invasion of Quel'thalas in particular is really impressive, the High elves no longer feel like knock-off humans but have their own flail, and Quel'thalas is truly beautiful.
-Original graphics remain and are fully playable, the game has also been optimized to run better on modern systems.

Cons:
-The Lightning has issues with the new models, and the portrait lipsyncing while functional also makes the characters look emotionless as their emoting is far more bland.
-The horrible Custom map EULA not only makes a ton of ancient maps illegal, but it also literally denies you the right of any idea you develop in Wc3, absolutely horrible!!!
-The reimagined cutscenes have been cut in spite of still being advertised! This further compounds problem 1, as the old cutscenes were made with the original models in mind and they look bad with the current ones.
-Custom Campaigns are gone.
-A lot of Battle.net features have been cut, either directly or indirectly, examples being: Tournaments, Cross-Region Custom Games, Ladder, and more.
-This leaves Wc3 Reforged barely a remaster, in some ways it makes things worse. Furthermore it was said to be more than a remaster, and is still advertised as more than a remaster.

In conclusion: When I first saw the models being posted, I was amazed...But after realizing that almost everything I was hyped for was canned, even custom games were ruined, and the new cutscenes were likewise removed...I cannot recommend this game to anyone for the current price.

You are objectively incorrect about the EULA changes. Don't listen to Reddit lawyers please.

This is the second paragraph of the 300 page 1979 Copyright act that governs copyright law in the United States (and which is mirrored around the world through various international covenants)

§102 · Subject matter of copyright: In general...

b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

What that means is neither you nor blizzard can copyright an idea. Period. Full Stop. End of Story. People telling you blizz has permanent rights to your shitty custom game idea do not have any idea what they are talking about. There is nothing in the EULA stopping you from remaking your own custom game outside of WC3 using your own copyrighted assets (IE not Blizz's).

[Nokonda]

The majority seem to be playing the game and not wanting a refund because they are enjoying it. Blizzard has given people a refund option, they stated they were working on improving it. I don't see why the continual outrage over a game.

If that's so then thankfully we have a vocal and passionate minority that's not afraid to call out false advertising, abysmal performance and the ruination of Warcraft RoC + TFT. Honestly, aside from the odd one on this place all I meet is universal and overwhelming dislike for this subpar product.

[Easo]

Jesus christ. Upgrade your PC to play the original game you owned and which worked before Reforged:



Excellent customer service...

anasterian golden eyes

And he is just plopped in here, without any text/voice lines. How "cool" is that? Oh, look, you have High Elf king now, as per lore! IF you know who that is beforehand...

Truly, Lemon Sky did the best part of the Reforged (even if sometimes not perfect), Blizzard... did what, exactly?

[Skorpionss]

why do you feel the constant need to bring up how awesome you find warcraft iii reforged to be? fine we get it you like it good for you. you don't need to make a post about it everytime someone makes a negative post about warcraft iii reforged which you've been doing in every single thread about it constantly.

Why do y'all feel the need to lie about a flawed game to make it look worse than it is?

[Verdugo]

*snip*

Ban evasion is against the rules.

Report accounts you think are evading, responding to say you think someone is an evade is just trolling. - Arlee

[puddypounce]

Ban evasion is against the rules.

If you've got something to say then say it. I'm sick and tired of people spreading objectively false information because they read some shit on Reddit. You can say whatever you want about reforged, but the EULA stuff is completely wrong as a matter of law.

[keelr]

Same opinion here

same, i dont understand all the hate

[Kralljin]

If you've got something to say then say it. I'm sick and tired of people spreading objectively false information because they read some shit on Reddit. You can say whatever you want about reforged, but the EULA stuff is completely wrong as a matter of law.

Well yeah, but you're arguing with federal law, while you would (most likely) win in court if it there ever would be a law suit due to that, it kinda shows the rather blatant attempt by Blizzard to claim copyright over something they cannot claim.

Which in my opinion, just reveals the intent of Blizzard behind it, yeah they can't enforce it, but i can imagine more pleasant situations than being sued by a multi billion company, even if the law is on my side.

Because that's kinda a big question, if that thing cannot be enforced in any fashion, why is it in there?
I somehow doubt that Blizzards lawyers are too incompetent to write a ToS / EULA that doesn't breach any federal or state laws, especially when it comes to copyright.

[puddypounce]

Well yeah, but you're arguing with federal law, while you would (most likely) win in court if it there ever would be a law suit due to that, it kinda shows the rather blatant attempt by Blizzard to claim copyright over something they cannot claim.

Which in my opinion, just reveals the intent of Blizzard behind it, yeah they can't enforce it, but i can imagine more pleasant situations than being sued by a multi billion company, even if the law is on my side.

Because that's kinda a big question, if that thing cannot be enforced in any fashion, why is it in there?
I somehow doubt that Blizzards lawyers are too incompetent to write a ToS / EULA that doesn't breach any federal or state laws, especially when it comes to copyright.

The EULA does not attempt to breach federal law. It attempts to prevent an independent claim of copyright to a custom game built using Blizzard assets. This is the same thing basically all EULAs do. It's purely asscovering. They will NEVER attempt to stop someone from implementing their own idea, because they would be laughed out of a courtroom. People are misreading the EULA and ascribing nefarious motives instead of assuming they are just doing normal stuff, which is the problem.

[Metta World Peace]

$30 for the 40+hour campaign is a tremendous value. Considering most modern titles give us half that amount for twice the price.

Why pay $30 when you can pay $10 for a much more superior version of this game? That's better value if you ask me.

[Cizr]

Finally started campaign and found out that when I change "profanity filter" in gameplay settings I either get DEFEAT message or it just boots me to main menu. That cant be intended, right ?

[jakeic]

Seems like the defenders of this reboot are trying to focus on artistic issues and taste issues to move the subject onto more manageable turf.

What seems to be the primary issue here is the false advertising which promised things which just weren't delivered. There's no defending that, it is just a corporation deceiving people to make more money.

How quickly we all forget Diablo 3.

[Easo]

If someone is still following this insanity, then this will make you laugh:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/191929

Common Problems
I want a refund for Warcraft III Reforged.

Blizzard stands by the quality of our products and our services. Normally we set limits for refund availability on a game, based on time since purchase and whether it has been used. However we want to give players the option of a refund if they feel that Warcraft III: Reforged does not provide the experience they wanted. So, we’ve decided to allow refunds upon request for the time being. You may request a refund here on our Support Site.

Continuing about bugs and stuff, Hive Workshop is digging in and it looks like campaign has shitload of bugs, even one which just grabs your units and sends them with move attack command to your base during last Undead mission. Some models have no speach animation or it is very bad, which also triggers people.

Probably the best of wall was the CS response to a guy whose computer could not run the game after the forced 30 GB update that "he can play later when he will have a better PC". I wish I made that up...

[Kralljin]

The EULA does not attempt to breach federal law. It attempts to prevent an independent claim of copyright to a custom game built using Blizzard assets. This is the same thing basically all EULAs do. It's purely asscovering. They will NEVER attempt to stop someone from implementing their own idea, because they would be laughed out of a courtroom.

I read up a bit on it, while i don't think the EULA is in itself problematic (though getting specific points on which Blizzard claims ownership is rather daunting), the crux lies in the Custom Game acceptable use policy.

https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ble-use-policy

Which straight up starts with:

Custom Games are and shall remain the sole and exclusive property of Blizzard.
Without limiting the foregoing, you hereby assign to Blizzard all of your rights, title, and interest in and to all Custom Games, including but not limited to any copyrights in the content of any Custom Games.

Granted, i'm not a lawyer, but in my opinion Blizzard should clarify this entire situation.
After all, this can be quite confusing to a lot of people, especially map creators and considering that Blizzard uses the custom map community to adversite for their product, yeah, some explanation would be beneficial.

At the end of the day, the question in the room is rather simple:
If i create a custom map and take the idea to another developer / publisher other than Blizzard, do i breach this policy or not?

[FlubberPuddy]

If i create a custom map and take the idea to another developer / publisher other than Blizzard, do i breach this policy or not?

I don't think it requires clarification, it's very openly trying to prevent another DotA situation. Based on your question it's simple: No you wouldn't breach the policy.

Nothing in their policy talks about "taking your idea" because there's no way to prove someone's "idea" was theirs first, it's an abstract thing.

If obviously you want to create an entire game using Blizzard's tools then yes ofc its theirs. You wouldn't have made such a game without their tools so why shouldn't they own the idea? Go make the same idea of game with freelance tools. People are blowing this way out of proportion.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, the whole "I can't play canned bread anymore!" is bullshit too. There's been a bunch of people still playing custom games/maps with characters from other franchises and Blizzard aren't axing those maps.

EULA changes are really there to prevent another DotA situation and cover their ass in case anyone makes a game with their tools and tries to profit off it or some shit.

It's no different from the WoW Forum Agreement where you forfeit any idea you share to be part of Blizzard's property - this way in case someone suggested some idea for say Allied Races then Blizzard doesn't have someone trying to sue them going "I posted about this on your forums 5 years ago - here's proof - I demand a share of the profits!".

[Jarrot82]

If someone is still following this insanity, then this will make you laugh:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/191929



Continuing about bugs and stuff, Hive Workshop is digging in and it looks like campaign has shitload of bugs, even one which just grabs your units and sends them with move attack command to your base during last Undead mission. Some models have no speach animation or it is very bad, which also triggers people.

Probably the best of wall was the CS response to a guy whose computer could not run the game after the forced 30 GB update that "he can play later when he will have a better PC". I wish I made that up...

and also they noticed that now the campaign is much easy than the original, they count the unit kill for last roc campaign, hyjal, and this is the situation:

Reforged
Battle for Mount Hyjal: Unit Kills 384 Hero kills 9
Classic
Battle for Mount Hyjal: Unit Kills 772 Hero kills 29

for the computer well after do you have a phone now is do you not have a good pc?buy and play later

[Jastall]

It's really a shame, because there's potential there. I just did the fifth Undead mission, the fall of Silvermoon, and it was definitely the most "reforged" map yet. The layout was very similar to WoW's Silvermoon, Sylvanas is turned into a special Banshee hero upon her death which is very reminiscent of the one in the Warbringers short, there's captive Amani trolls that you can free for reinforcements, Quel'danas is accessed by Arthas creating an ice bridge, and Anasterian Sunstrider shows up to try and kill you later on. It makes for a much better mission than the one in the vanilla game, but isn't supported by new voice acting (Anasterian doesn't actually say anything) and it's only one mission. Had the entire campaign gotten this treatment, it would have been far better.