Is WoW Just Too Time Consuming Anymore?

[subsidalos]

The other thing is, back in the day, you had targets to which you would set your sights.
"I want to get <item>, and this is how I go about it", so you would grind for it, and often times spend more time back then grinding for that thing that you do today.
The difference? There was a finish line.
You go the item and said "eff yeah!"
Today? You get to the goal you set, then the goal posts scoot back ever so slightly.
You plod ahead, they keep going.
You can say "I want this item!" but if it rolled a shitty Corruption proc, then it's "better luck next time!".

Bingo. There's no sense of accomplishment anymore. It feels like you're just grinding with no clear reward for your time. I'm not sure Blizzard is ever going to see how bad this RNG is for the game.

[cashballer]

I miss the good Ol days where you just ran your Raids for the week and then logged off and didn't have to do anything ingame until the next reset. Now there are 4 different difficulties and M+, garbage PVP. I liked when you could do your 10 arena matches and do random BG's to gear out your character. Or when you could do the raid on 1 difficulty and be done. Things were simpler and alts were easy to level and gear. Now I can't be arsed to level an alt because who wants to play through the current garbage leveling content more than once.

This is how I feel too. All I want to do is raid; maybe mess around doing dungeons/achievements with my friends occasionally. That's pretty much how I've always played WoW since TBC. People say you aren't required to do all the stuff you listed, but if you want to be in a reasonably competitive raiding guild, you really are. They added all this content for people to choose from, but none of it is mutually exclusive so you have to do all of it to have the same power level as other strong players. Having alt characters has been pretty important ever since the multiple raid difficulties became separate lockouts, and now they require more time investment than ever before.

I understand most players don't care about trying to raid on the cutting edge; just giving my input as someone who does.

That being said, I disagree that current leveling content is garbage. The leveling experience has been absolutely phenomenal ever since WoD. It's the gearing up and grinding artifact power/azerite once you hit max level that's the really slow and irritating part (granted, I haven't played since Battle for Dazar'alor).

[Dziubla]

I am in my 30 and same as yourself, limited to how much I can play per day. There are days I just can't get online at all. Then there are days I have a few hours to spare at a time. So it is random.

I was fine up until the legendary cloak was added, and boy oh boy do I feel extremely overwhelmed with everything now. It's only when the cloak was added do I feel a lot of pressure added to get things done. Not sure if I am the only one feeling this since the addition of the cloak. It's not going to stop me playing as I know how to control myself. But would like to know if anyone else feels this since the addition of the cloak.

Not sure why cloak would make you feel like that. I mean, cloak is limited to 1 rank per week, so assuming you're not failing your runs, you can get it upgraded with like, what, 2-3 hours of play per WEEK? Do major assault, do two small assaults, if you have the time try to do the lesser vision daily (or at least weekly), and you will easily have 3 keys every week, Right now we're entering a phase where you need more than 1 horrific vision per upgrade, so it's time to start banking your keys, but as I said, even without farming dailies or rares or chests or anything like that, you can still do it without ANY problems, and with very limited time investment.

[Rucati]

Correct, and as I stated I have no plans to even attempt collecting anymore. My point was it is bad design to create so many collectibles that the vast vast vast majority of your playerbase will not have the time to even bother trying to collect them and then call it content. As soon as I saw the number of rares in Nazjatar and Mechagon for example I immediately went "nope." It's Timeless Isle all over again but worse. That's bad design: quantity over quality gameplay.

How? This doesn't even make any sense. There being a lot of rares is a bad thing? I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion.

Like they're meaningless rares what type of quality do you want from them? They literally only exist so Blizzard has a smooth way to add specific drops or quests to a zone.

It's a really weird thing to complain that a game has too much content. That's like being upset that a Pokemon game has 300 Pokemon in it because catching them all will take too long, even though that is in no way required to fully enjoy the game.

[Yelmurc]

Blizzards problem isn’t that it takes time to play WoW their problem is that their audience has grown older and the majority of them have families and jobs that take up most of their time. Blizzard should focus more on getting the younger generations into the game that have more time rather than trying to hold on to the players that can’t invest the amount of time they use to.

[Aristai1723]

Attracting young folks might not work without loosing many existing customers.

Personally my mind was blown by how fast I could get 445 items this patch. Only lacking weapons which will be a rare emissary if I don't get lucky elsewhere.

So time invested is 3 Assaults per week 1 hour, 2 visions 1 hour, sometimes minor visions if I find some extra time and 5 hours raiding with friends. So it's 8 hours per week. Is that a lot? Is it more time than I have? all difficult questions. Week has 168 hours.

[Boo Radley]

OP I fully agree with you because of a simple reason: Chores.

There's content you're forced to do to keep your character up to par. Once you finish that, you can do things you enjoy. They can take up to 3 hours a day or more depending on how intense your regimen is. As someone who really enjoys alts my enjoyment right now is absolutely scuttled. I'm basically just farming and AHing to give gold away because it makes me feel good to help people.

I'm going to use capitals here to emphasize the importance of things. The AMOUNT OF CONTENT IS VERY GOOD. The way it is fed to us, not allowed to be caught up on for what has already passed(only the cloak does this) and timegated in general is not. What isnt good about it? That I HAVE TO report back at a specific interval to be able to enjoy it or fall behind, and cant just take it at my own pace or enjoy the content for the sake of being good, fun content.

So, in the end what are the important parts of that? The amount of content created has been great and it feels like other than QA they did a very good job on everything they put in just as raw gameplay. The real problem is the feeling of responsibility and dread. Its the notion than you "have to" complete some content even if you hate it. That you cant do the content you like until you've finished your chores. Its just bad design and counter to the claim of "you dont have to do content you dont enjoy" that was statedin the beta of the xpac.
Its got players like me torn between a game they really enjoy and a method of playing it that feels terrible for a good portion of the time. Add this to classes that feel underpowered even with late game secondary stats at crazy levels and you get people going throgh the motions hoping that the "old days" somehow break out from under the current game where its buried.

Good thread though OP, much appreciated and well written.

[Jujudrood]

Bingo. There's no sense of accomplishment anymore. It feels like you're just grinding with no clear reward for your time. I'm not sure Blizzard is ever going to see how bad this RNG is for the game.

Yep, it's compounded by RNG on RNG on RNG, because when you DO get a drop, there's a very small chance that it's actually useful, which just feels someone coming up to me and saying "Hey, you've won the lottery! Wooooo!!", then turning out and saying "Just Kidding!!!" then punching you in the face.
But with all the avenues of gear, you are just showered with those disappointments, which in turn make the useful drop feel like a "relief" instead of a "reward".

I'm sure they won't adjust their strategies because "they work", in a general sense.
RNG on RNG on RNG is what they see as "look! people are logging in and doing the things!".
Constantly shifting goal posts, with things like AP, offer "continuous advancement", so they view that as better than "well, you did all the things, guess we'll see you next patch".

The majority of people don't seem to care, though. as they silently log in, play and consume the content, and ultimately keep them subs rolling.
That's a win; paying customers utilizing the product.
Sure, there could be thousands on a forum bemoaning this fact, but what's a couple thousand compared to like, 2mil or so who don't complain and go about their day.
If there's 1 vocal, unhappy person per 100, that's 99% "satisfied" to some extent; I'd take that any day!

When we think "there are thousands of people on forums, YouTube, etc, sharing feedback and ultimately negative/bad reviews", but then you stop and think "oh, wait... there's also like 2mil+ who just log in and play silently", it kind of dwarfs the loudest voices by "I can't hear you over all the money flowing in!".

[Jamie081]

Anecdotal but I've watched my sister play and she only has a few hours a week/night to play right now because of her postgrad.

She tries to do everything at once instead of setting herself a goal and completing something e.g. the questline for the legendary cloak in 8.3. Instead she gets bored of it and starts farming herbs or mines for 30-60 mins.

She'll then log off because she's played enough for the day/week and then she tells me that she feels so behind... yet she isn't really spending her time wisely. She has confessed herself she gets bored pretty quickly but that's a case of stopping playing if you're not having fun. A lot of the time she also hovers around but isn't really doing anything, not even emissaries which I recommended she should do since they take 10-15 mins. I just saw her log in for 5 mins then log out as I type this.

You could try changing your goals or setting your own. If you barely have any time to play you're not going to have time to sit down and complete a mythic+ dungeon. If you do have the time for that then you definitely have time for the rest the game has to offer right now. The next expansion isn't going to be out until after August at the earliest too so there's absolutely no rush.

My dad always talks about how he has no time to play games anymore, but he'll spend several hours each evening just watching TV. My uncle on the other hand spends hours weekly playing games with his son. It can be done. Fair enough if you're not into games anymore but my dad bought a console recently and hasn't touched it once.

None of this is to say that WoW hasn't become a game of chores and checklists. However, you can still make progress, you just need to set reasonable goals. If you're not having fun and feel it's too much then it's just not the right game, and there are more drop-in drop-out games out there to try!

[Tazr]

(NB: Haven't remotely thought this through)

Sometimes wish Blizz would give you a free weekend that you could activate after a set period of time, once per .x patch if unsubbed (or whatever) so you could log in on your main (and not a <20 toon that can't do anything), potter about and work out if you want to sub again.

If they did that, the bulk of people would probably feel both overwhelmed (by how far behind they are) and underwhelmed (by the poor quality/entertainment value of the content) and never come back.

Everything is about creating the maximum amount of grind while providing a minimum of content - and that content is largely uninspiring. The art people are the only ones doing their jobs, these days - with the exception of the people making armor, who per usual aim to underwhelm. I wouldn't even mind if they went back and upgraded the graphics quality of the awesome gear people actually prefer to mog - especially if they made sure it actually fit the various races properly. Nothing like armor making boobs look like they're melting, and shoulder armor that's visibly floating above your character.

Honestly, if you can live with giving up the crap you've accumulated, which is what keeps a lot of people playing (myself included), go find a better game.

[Shinrael]

Damn, is it just me or am i just super efficient?

3x island expeditions; 30minuts a week
Dailies (aproxx 30min a day) which includes assault, no need to finish them on day 1 when it has a 3-7 day window
Visions (1 hour per week)
Mythic + (1 hour per week)
Emissaries; hardly an hour a week( i do not need everything)

With aproxx 10 hours a week and actually being active and not standing in dazar alar or boralus, u can do so much.

1) Divide that by 7 = 1 hour and a half a day. Some people don't have 1 hour and a half a day on weekdays.
2) How many hours do you raid per week? Can't go calculating time spent per week and skipping your top contender for time consumption.

[D4NNYB0Y]

The other thing is, back in the day, you had targets to which you would set your sights.
"I want to get <item>, and this is how I go about it", so you would grind for it, and often times spend more time back then grinding for that thing that you do today.
The difference? There was a finish line.
You go the item and said "eff yeah!"
Today? You get to the goal you set, then the goal posts scoot back ever so slightly.
You plod ahead, they keep going.
You can say "I want this item!" but if it rolled a shitty Corruption proc, then it's "better luck next time!".

That's not even getting into anything if you want to remain remotely competitive, or if you feel compelled to collect "all the things!".

TL;DR: Same, dude. Same.

I think that's part of the issue for me. The core gameplay doesn't feel particularly fun or rewarding anymore. Some will say I'm burnt out, but I literally just came back from a multi-month long break, and I haven't felt this way in the past except for Argus.

I'll compare WoW to Diablo 3, another Blizzard game. I just started a new Crusader for the current season. In about 4 hours SSF (solo self found) I am over halfway to max level, I have unlocked many abilities to help mix up the gameplay, I have found multiple Legendaries which have varied my gameplay and dramatically increased my power level, I have increased my difficulty to Torment 1 which further increases my experience gain and rewards, and I have almost completed Chapter 1 of the Season Journey (I am level 48, and I just need to hit 50.) The new season community buff Pandemonium is also fun and encourages players to rack up bigger and bigger kill streaks for cool, beneficial effects. I have not committed a lot of time, I am having fun, and I feel like I've been rewarded frequently which encourages me to keep playing. The frequent rewards only increase after max level and the end game, and that's just playing casually without trying to place on the leaderboards. Ultimately game design is psychology wrapped in math. WoW feels like all math and no psychology.

I don't understand why WoW has to be this way. The argument I constantly hear is, because that's how MMOs are designed. Why? MMOs can be designed in whatever way is the most fun for players. This is how Skinner Boxes are designed. The two do not have to be one and the same. WoW doesn't have to be stagnant because reasons. Personally, I would rather WoW have more quality content that actually creates new, varied gameplay and less quantity. The game has been so inundated with mounts, pets, toys, and other collectibles that they've lost all meaning. Which would be fine, but this is a major chunk of WoW's content. I don't mind running out of things to do and taking a break every so often, but that's me. It gives me more time to play other games or as another poster said level up in real life. I enjoy my breaks from WoW, but that doesn't mean I want to give up on the game entirely. I've been playing it for over half of my life.

[D4NNYB0Y]

Anecdotal but I've watched my sister play and she only has a few hours a week/night to play right now because of her postgrad.

She tries to do everything at once instead of setting herself a goal and completing something e.g. the questline for the legendary cloak in 8.3. Instead she gets bored of it and starts farming herbs or mines for 30-60 mins.

She'll then log off because she's played enough for the day/week and then she tells me that she feels so behind... yet she isn't really spending her time wisely. She has confessed herself she gets bored pretty quickly but that's a case of stopping playing if you're not having fun. A lot of the time she also hovers around but isn't really doing anything, not even emissaries which I recommended she should do since they take 10-15 mins. I just saw her log in for 5 mins then log out as I type this.

You could try changing your goals or setting your own. If you barely have any time to play you're not going to have time to sit down and complete a mythic+ dungeon. If you do have the time for that then you definitely have time for the rest the game has to offer right now. The next expansion isn't going to be out until after August at the earliest too so there's absolutely no rush.

My dad always talks about how he has no time to play games anymore, but he'll spend several hours each evening just watching TV. My uncle on the other hand spends hours weekly playing games with his son. It can be done. Fair enough if you're not into games anymore but my dad bought a console recently and hasn't touched it once.

None of this is to say that WoW hasn't become a game of chores and checklists. However, you can still make progress, you just need to set reasonable goals. If you're not having fun and feel it's too much then it's just not the right game, and there are more drop-in drop-out games out there to try!

I'm all for doing things efficiently, but no game should have such a focus on time management unless it's an office job simulator.

[richiecqc]

hasn't always been in some way or another?

[Jamie081]

I'm all for doing things efficiently, but no game should have such a focus on time management unless it's an office job simulator.

If it feels like an office job simulator then it doesn't sound like you're having fun anymore and should try other games that fit your schedule. It's just a part of life.

[Twdft]

WoW is as time consuming as you want it to be. Exercise your agency.

[D4NNYB0Y]

How? This doesn't even make any sense. There being a lot of rares is a bad thing? I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion.

Like they're meaningless rares what type of quality do you want from them? They literally only exist so Blizzard has a smooth way to add specific drops or quests to a zone.

It's a really weird thing to complain that a game has too much content. That's like being upset that a Pokemon game has 300 Pokemon in it because catching them all will take too long, even though that is in no way required to fully enjoy the game.

Quality over quantity. 60 rares (or w/e it is) between Mechagon and Nazjatar is not quality content. It's just Timeless Isle, or Tanaan, or Argus, or whatever that's been done to death. I would rather they spend their bandwidth and resources to design fun, engaging, varied content. I personally do not find spawn camping for hours on end to be engaging gameplay. To each their own.

- - - Updated - - -

If it feels like an office job simulator then it doesn't sound like you're having fun anymore and should try other games that fit your schedule. It's just a part of life.

Yup, probably what I am going to do. I have done it many times in the past, but I have hope that WoW will improve in the future.

- - - Updated - - -

OP I fully agree with you because of a simple reason: Chores.

My wife and I used to call our Garrison dailies our wizard chores. For whatever reason I found those a lot more enjoyable. Probably because I felt they were more rewarding. Unlocking new buildings/blueprints felt good. Building the Garrison felt good. WoD as a whole was not very good, but I enjoyed that aspect, and it kept me playing through most of the expansion.

[Vestertood]

It really and truly is, unfortunately.

[talmar]

OK, I'm now in my mid 40's and have been playing since mid BC. Over a decade. Anybody who has played this game, unless they play/write for games for a living has had their lives changing drastically. I simply cannot play the way I used to. If I want to continue to enjoy this game I have to accept where I am in life and adjust my playstyle.

I no longer raid at the highest level. I don't farm/grind rares for all the cool stuff. I don't push keys. I had to change guilds to find a Heroic 2x a week raiding guild from my Mythic 3x a week raiding guild. I accept that I'll continue to farm BFA rares 2 or 3 expansions from now like I'm still farming Timeless Isle for some pets.

Personally, If I took most all of an expansion off and came back in the last patch I probably wouldn't bother with any of the end game stuff. I'd work on getting my cloak, running a few horrific visions for funsies, do some low level M+ just to try it out and run the war campaign for the story. Either that or wait till Shadowlands and come back then.

WoW patch cycles have never been catch up friendly if you miss almost the whole xpac and come in at the end. If you started Wrath, left and came back during Lich King you were not jumping into the raid anytime soon. Expansion patches build on the previous patch. If you want to push end game content you need to keep up with the game as the expansion evolves or understand you'll have a few months of grinding to get to the end game.

[Djuntas]

Depends what you are into. Since I spend a lot of time grinding gold on the AH to eventually get more achive points and mounts...then yes, but if I once stopped bothering with all that crap I feel like wow has barely any content...I also dont raid or do mythic+, no achives/gold or progress in it that I care about.