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  1. #1

    10 Steps for Playing Retribution without Holy Power on Live

    Disclaimer: Not trolling. Being legit. Repeatedly see this view come up again and again. If those individuals would like to know the closest thing to an in-game experience this would be like, do the below. Their thoughts on the subject might change after said experience. Either way, it's an interesting experience.


    Step 1: Go to Character Generation.

    Step 2: Create a 110 Trial Shaman and enter the game.

    Step 3: Change spec to Enhancement.

    Step 4: Log out of WoW.

    Step 5: Open the above character's macro files that were just created on your harddrive.

    Step 6: Paste in the following and save and close the files:

    Code:
    VER 3 0100000000000026 "AS" "236264"
    #showtooltip Astral Shift
    /cast Astral Shift
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000020 "CL" "236250"
    #showtooltip Crash Lightning
    /cast Crash Lightning
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000025 "CS" "135953"
    #showtooltip Cleanse Spirit
    /cast Cleanse Spirit
    END
    VER 3 010000000000001E "FS" "135875"
    #showtooltip Feral Spirit
    /use 14
    /use 13 
    /cast Feral Spirit
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000022 "FT" "1360757"
    #showtooltip Flametongue
    /cast Flametongue
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000023 "GW" "571558"
    #showtooltip Ghost Wolf
    /cast Ghost Wolf
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000024 "HS" "135907"
    #showtooltip Healing Surge
    /cast Healing Surge
    END
    VER 3 010000000000001D "Inter" "523893"
    #showtooltip [modifier:alt] Wind Shear; Purge
    /cast [modifier:alt] Wind Shear; Purge
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000016 "Lava" "135891"
    #showtooltip Lava Lash
    /cast Lava Lash
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 0100000000000021 "Lunge" "613533"
    #showtooltip Feral Lunge
    /cast Feral Lunge
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 010000000000001F "Rok" "135959"
    #showtooltip Rockbiter
    /cast Rockbiter
    /startattack
    END
    VER 3 010000000000000B "Storm" "461860"
    #showtooltip Stormstrike
    /use 13
    /use 14
    /cast Stormstrike
    /startattack
    END

    Step 7: Re-Log in as above 110 trial Shaman.

    Step 8: Open the macro tab and populate your skill bar with the contents found therein just like they were actual Paladin Retribution skills.

    Step 9: Go kill stuff while pretending you're a Paladin.

    Step 10: Feel the power of Wack-a-Mole-Rotation while now reconsidering your previous thoughts on the topic of how Holy Power is bad for Retribution.


  2. #2

  3. #3
    Like the ones who wanted Inquisition back after we fought so long to get rid of it.

  4. #4
    Reroll from Ret to Enh..

    good joke.
    Hi Sephurik

  5. #5
    Just like ret paladins wanting to be warriors since 2004? Nice option.

  6. #6
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpony View Post
    -snipped for obvious reasons-
    The reasons why Holy Power is an absolute shit mechanic are the following;
    It's literally just combo points, which is inherently very uninteresting.
    Outside of Wings, Holy Power literally does nothing to the rotation.
    Elaborating on the previous point, you can straight up remove Holy Power, add a cooldown to Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm and half that cooldown during Wings and you have functionally the exact same gameplay.

    Now elaborate as to WHY Ret needs this mechanic?
    In all honesty, they removed Holy Power from the wrong specs. It worked fine for Holy and Prot, but it's always felt absolute shit on Ret and quite literally any other resource would fit better.

    At this point I'd rather have the Insanity mechanic instead where you just go into Wings instead of Voidform, because it would just be more interesting at this point.

  7. #7
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    At this point I'd rather have the Insanity mechanic instead where you just go into Wings instead of Voidform, because it would just be more interesting at this point.
    That would actually be rather interesting. You build up and build up a buff/debuff while fighting then pop a CD and burn down the buff/debuff. Granted this would mean that Rets wouldn't be front-loaded damage anymore and more of a roller coaster like Shadow Priest, but would definitely be more interesting that the worthless, thinly veiled Combo Points mechanic that they have right now.
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  8. #8
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    That would actually be rather interesting. You build up and build up a buff/debuff while fighting then pop a CD and burn down the buff/debuff. Granted this would mean that Rets wouldn't be front-loaded damage anymore and more of a roller coaster like Shadow Priest, but would definitely be more interesting that the worthless, thinly veiled Combo Points mechanic that they have right now.
    Yeah that's pretty much where I'm at right now, I just want something to reignite my interest in Ret again but it's increasingly hard when it's stuck in the bog with the shitty combo point system it's had since Cataclysm.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    [...]
    Now elaborate as to WHY Ret needs this mechanic?
    In all honesty, they removed Holy Power from the wrong specs. It worked fine for Holy and Prot, but it's always felt absolute shit on Ret and quite literally any other resource would fit better.
    [...]
    Youre right about Prot but not Holy - it was arguably more clunky on holy then Ret

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    At this point I'd rather have the Insanity mechanic instead where you just go into Wings instead of Voidform, because it would just be more interesting at this point.
    This would be the worst thing ever. It's already terrible feeling on Spriests and ret's don't need it. Holy Power isn't bad and it's there to punish people somewhat for those who overcap, etc based on their gameplay (like those who Blade of Justice at 4 or don't time Judgements right,etc). If anything I'd rather Blade of Justice be 2 charges so if you take the talent you don't lose out on a charge or if you don't take the talent and get a proc right as it comes off cooldown. Though I think any spec that has an ability that can reset its cd should have a charge system to avoid that. Overall Holy Power doesn't hinder anything for me and don't see a problem with it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kataroku View Post
    Like the ones who wanted Inquisition back after we fought so long to get rid of it.
    Yeah, I hated seeing it again, knew it would only be a matter of time before it pulled ahead and... yeah. Fuck Inq.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpony View Post
    Step 10: Feel the power of Wack-a-Mole-Rotation while now reconsidering your previous thoughts on the topic of how Holy Power is bad for Retribution.
    Holy Power is one of the best things they ever gave retribution paladin. I've played ret paladin as a main every expansion since I started play9ing in TBC. Ret is as fun to play now as it has ever been and holy power was a huge boost in the fun factor when it was introduced

  13. #13
    Don’t like ret? So u tell them to go play the worst spec in the game? Lol.

    Or maybe that’s the point, so they come running back.

  14. #14
    holy power is pretty crap. wouldn't mind if it was removed.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! crakerjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nfinitii View Post
    Don’t like ret? So u tell them to go play the worst spec in the game? Lol.

    Or maybe that’s the point, so they come running back.
    Worst spec in the game is like saying you ate the worst dish at a 2 michelin star restaurant. Enh isn't bad, it's just not as good as some other specs, but by no means is it bad.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    Enh is great. The performance isn't the best but the gameplay is way more fun than ret.
    It's high noon.
    Personality: INTJ

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    It's literally just combo points, which is inherently very uninteresting.
    Literally isn't.

    Holy Power is spent in fixed amounts and is therefore bankable; combo points aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    you can straight up remove Holy Power, add a cooldown to Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm and half that cooldown during Wings and you have functionally the exact same gameplay.
    Take away the dynamic decision making of when to use TV/DS and make it a fixed CD...and it will be the same? Um...no?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    At this point I'd rather have the Insanity mechanic instead where you just go into Wings instead of Voidform, because it would just be more interesting at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    That would actually be rather interesting. You build up and build up a buff/debuff while fighting then pop a CD and burn down the buff/debuff. Granted this would mean that Rets wouldn't be front-loaded damage anymore and more of a roller coaster like Shadow Priest, but would definitely be more interesting that the worthless, thinly veiled Combo Points mechanic that they have right now.
    If you're immeasurably bored, I actually built a fairly in depth concept of this a while back on here for fun. If you comb through my created threads you can find it. I don't have many so it should only take a second. Didn't wanna clog the thread with the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Holy Power isn't bad and it's there to punish people somewhat for those who overcap, etc based on their gameplay (like those who Blade of Justice at 4 or don't time Judgements right,etc). If anything I'd rather Blade of Justice be 2 charges so if you take the talent you don't lose out on a charge or if you don't take the talent and get a proc right as it comes off cooldown. Though I think any spec that has an ability that can reset its cd should have a charge system to avoid that. Overall Holy Power doesn't hinder anything for me and don't see a problem with it.
    My issue here is twofold:

    1) You can create a significantly more interesting resource/mechanic that still punishes overcapping. Holy Power is bland and boring.

    2) Giving BoJ charges is fine mechanically, but at this point giving half our abilities charges seems a bit awkward and makes the buttons feel even less impactful than they already are. I think it's a fine band-aid, but a better solution would be ideal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thontor View Post
    Holy Power is one of the best things they ever gave retribution paladin. I've played ret paladin as a main every expansion since I started play9ing in TBC. Ret is as fun to play now as it has ever been and holy power was a huge boost in the fun factor when it was introduced
    Respectfully disagree. I also have played Ret and no Cata was not what I considered to be a huge boost in the fun factor. I don't have any ACTUAL issues with Holy Power. It fits and it works, but it's hilariously boring and inconsequential. If it was more thematic or had some actual gameplay synergies I'd like it more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Literally isn't.

    Holy Power is spent in fixed amounts and is therefore bankable; combo points aren't.

    Take away the dynamic decision making of when to use TV/DS and make it a fixed CD...and it will be the same? Um...no?
    I don't play a rogue, do top rogues regularly spend CP in non max amounts, or is it 90% of the time spent in max blocks? If so it's pretty much damn near identical.

    With respect to TV/DS it depends on if the cooldown is shared or not. If it's shared it'd be absolutely no change. If it's separate there would be a minor change, but either way, the person is still pretty spot on.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I don't play a rogue, do top rogues regularly spend CP in non max amounts,
    Sort of like BoJ, you might spend at one below max if you would overcap combo points, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    or is it 90% of the time spent in max blocks? If so it's pretty much damn near identical.
    generally rogues prefer to spend at max- that's not really what my point was though. As ret, you can choose to spend at 3, 4, or 5 depending on the status of your generators, and it still only spends three, leaving you with 0, 1, or 2. Rogue spends all combo points at once, leaving you with 0 (1 for Outlaw). If you want to compare Holy Power to something, chi is a closer analogue than combo points because chi also has fixed expenditures and is bankable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    With respect to TV/DS it depends on if the cooldown is shared or not. If it's shared it'd be absolutely no change. If it's separate there would be a minor change, but either way, the person is still pretty spot on.
    Maybe you could make the CD such that you would end up with the same average number of TV/DS over the course of a fight, but changing from dynamic usage to a fixed CD would not be "functionally the exact same gameplay." It would fundamentally change the nature of the rotation.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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  20. #20
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    This would be the worst thing ever. It's already terrible feeling on Spriests and ret's don't need it. Holy Power isn't bad and it's there to punish people somewhat for those who overcap, etc based on their gameplay (like those who Blade of Justice at 4 or don't time Judgements right,etc). If anything I'd rather Blade of Justice be 2 charges so if you take the talent you don't lose out on a charge or if you don't take the talent and get a proc right as it comes off cooldown. Though I think any spec that has an ability that can reset its cd should have a charge system to avoid that. Overall Holy Power doesn't hinder anything for me and don't see a problem with it.
    That's the thing though, if you have an entire resource system in a class be okay just because it "doesn't hinder you", that isn't a good resource system.
    A resource system is there to flesh out gameplay and make it more interesting for you to play. Holy Power does not achieve that.

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