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  1. #1

    Two track education system

    Is this a good idea?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jim..._b_712410.html

    I believe in giving people more freedom over their education. I don't believe a student should be forced into any program.

    Mod Edit: This thread is closed.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-02-07 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Multi track education systems are the way of the future. Every year we become a more creative based economy where we need critical thinkers in specialized rolls, not to mention the growing emphasis on employment that you can enjoy.

    The old education system where everyone learns the same answers to the same questions and pumps out academic drones is outdated.

  3. #3
    I hesitate to support this fully because I don't want a voting public that has even less of a grasp on government, economics, history and science. Granted we pretty much suck at creating an informed public, but I'd rather we not do even worse. Speaking as a mathematician, I'm willing to grant that most of the math taught won't be used at all if you're not going to college, so that's not really necessary. Probably literature as well.

    The author seems to be pushing this 'either or' idea, but I don't see why we can't maintain a core liberal arts curriculum combined with trade classes. I mean, are we really going to have students doing 6 periods of shop class?
    Last edited by Garnier Fructis; 2016-03-06 at 06:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    It seems that part of the trade skill track is classes that are in some respects more practical.
    Seems like I need a course in reading comprehension.

    Though, having admitted that I suck at reading, I still think we need more than what he listed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Many schools already offer an exceptional number of elective offerings. It's just a matter of allocating the resources and having a local populace large enough to handle it. Here is one category from my old high school:

    "Architecture & Construction
    ____311000 Principles of Architecture & Construction*
    ____311150 Principles of Architecture & Construction DC*
    ____312010 Architectural Design
    ____313020 Advanced Architectural Design (2 periods)
    ____314030 Practicum in Architectural Design (2 periods)
    ____311040 Interior Design*
    ____312050 Advanced Interior Design
    ____313060 Practicum in Interior Design (2 periods)
    ____312070 Construction Management
    ____312080 Construction Technology (2 periods)
    ____312160 Construction Technology DC (2 periods)
    ____313090 Advanced Construction Technology DC (2 periods)
    ____314100 Practicum in Construction Management DC (2 periods)
    ____312110 Building Maintenance Technology (2 periods)
    ____313120 Advanced Building Maintenance Tech. (2 periods)
    ____313130 HVAC & Refrigeration Technology DC (2 periods)
    ____314140 Advanced HVAC & Refrig. Tech. DC (2 periods)"

    http://www.txkisd.net/pdf/courseguides/THS.pdf

  6. #6
    An interesting article by Irving Wladawsky-Berger: How Dual-Track Education Could Help Students Gear Up for the Digital Economy
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-02-07 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Thread Necromancy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    Is this a good idea?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jim..._b_712410.html

    I believe in giving people more freedom over their education. I don't believe a student should be forced into any program.
    This has been the norm for several decades in multiple (not sure if all) countries in the EU. In some, it's even more than just 2 tracks. Yes, it's a good idea, and yes, it absolutely works.

  8. #8
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    This author, like other people who think that the point of education is to push people directly into vocations, is an idiot.

    Yes, there should be far more in the way of options available. But calling liberal arts and the humanities "useless" is, funnily enough, the exact sort of mindset that encourages educational systems focused on numerical results rather than cultivating critical thinking ability. We got to the point of No Child Left Behind because there was a massive push in the educational system for creating 'job ready skillsets'.

    Like let's not talk about the fact that school weeks are too long and classes too large, let's not talk about the continued existence of homework despite no evidence it actually does anything beneficial, let's not talk about the elimination of domestic skill classes because they aren't job applicable...No, the problem is apparently too many history classes.

    Practical skillsets are necessary. But critical thinking is more important, because they better enable you to learn said practical skillsets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    Is this a good idea?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jim..._b_712410.html

    I believe in giving people more freedom over their education. I don't believe a student should be forced into any program.
    they are probably as effective in giving people proper education as gender studies in giving people well paid jobs.

  10. #10
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they are probably as effective in giving people proper education as gender studies in giving people well paid jobs.
    I take it you have a source for this? Lol.

    Also; why is the prospective pay level of a discipline indicative of its value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #11
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    This is a terrifying idea. It's basically every dystopian sci-fi story about systems where "certain people" with "certain backgrounds" and "certain parentage" get pushed into one mode of learning or another. It's a terrific way to super-charge economic inequality and turn into into a class system. There are plenty of studies that show that college-educated folks are more likely to have kids who go to college, and the reverse is just as true.

    The idea that existing "two track programs" in schools aren't accounting for the needs of students is missing the fundamental problem: schools aren't accounting for the needs of individual students.

    We don't need a system with "tracks". We need smaller classrooms and more individualized learning. This idiot's article does nothing to solve the problem he complains about, it just does it in two different ways.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  12. #12
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    This is a terrifying idea. It's basically every dystopian sci-fi story about systems where "certain people" with "certain backgrounds" and "certain parentage" get pushed into one mode of learning or another. It's a terrific way to super-charge economic inequality and turn into into a class system. There are plenty of studies that show that college-educated folks are more likely to have kids who go to college, and the reverse is just as true.

    The idea that existing "two track programs" in schools aren't accounting for the needs of students is missing the fundamental problem: schools aren't accounting for the needs of individual students.

    We don't need a system with "tracks". We need smaller classrooms and more individualized learning. This idiot's article does nothing to solve the problem he complains about, it just does it in two different ways.
    That feel when you try to modernise education but just end up recreating the Vedic caste system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    So, has anybody noticed this is a necro and that the article itself wasn't exactly new even when it was posted?
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  14. #14
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    That feel when you try to modernise education but just end up recreating the Vedic caste system.
    Further, if there "aren't enough seats in college" the solution is not to have less people go to college. That's insanity! It's also a self-perpetuating death spiral in a capitalist educational system, less demand, fewer colleges & seats, fewer seats, push more people into vocational careers, reduced demand for college...rinse & repeat.

    It's not surprising this article comes from a middle-aged white academic. And that's not to insult academia, it's that in my studies as a political scientist, this sort of article was all over the place in various forms by middle-class-and-up Western (mainly American) white academics.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  15. #15
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Further, if there "aren't enough seats in college" the solution is not to have less people go to college. That's insanity! It's also a self-perpetuating death spiral in a capitalist educational system, less demand, fewer colleges & seats, fewer seats, push more people into vocational careers, reduced demand for college...rinse & repeat.

    It's not surprising this article comes from a middle-aged white academic. And that's not to insult academia, it's that in my studies as a political scientist, this sort of article was all over the place in various forms by middle-class-and-up Western (mainly American) white academics.
    Oh I well recall the slough of bad takes from people that defaulted into tenure, make no mistake.

    I think quite a bit of it is a function of these chuds mostly only ever having taught at a collegiate level - i.e. an educational environment wherein most people are functional adults and the for-pay system means more difficult students often get vetted out. They don't have a current comprehension as to the state of K-12 in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    And that's not to insult academia, it's that in my studies as a political scientist
    Is this going to turn into an embarrassment like last time you said you studied something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    The issue is that water is needed to be added to the groundwater so that everyone can have access to water. Harvesting rainwater denies that, and ya know, also denies it to plant and animal life too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    You can't hope to even make any difference to it when it rains unless you cover a very large area, which most people could never afford.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    The issue isn't one guy doing it. The issue is when one guy becomes thousands or millions of people doing it. It adds up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    They can't cover enough area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    If your argument is "You're wrong because I say so." Just say that so I don't have to keep seeing your bullshit responses in my inbox.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    No, you're wrong because you are wrong. You can't cover enough area to make any impact that would make any difference in ground water levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    If that were true there wouldn't be laws against this.

    Look, I've studied these issues. I'm guessing...you haven't so....lets call it at, NO U! And be done mmkay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    There are laws against all kind of stupid things. Doesn't mean they are issues.


    No, you haven't if you think collecting a tiny bit of rainwater is going to make groundwater levels dwindle.

    One inch of rain in a 1 square mile area results in roughly 195 044 719 litres of water. People taking 10 litres in a barrel doesn't make any difference.

    To use california as an example



    The state has 478 920 604 821 360 litres of water in rainfall every year if going by 15 inches and 1 596 402 016 071 200 litres if going by 50 inches. You think people taking some rainfall water in a barrel is going to deplete groundwater levels? You can't even cover enough area to make any difference.

    The whole of USA has 28 inches rainfall on average, so for the whole country it would be 20 736 374 345 204 000 litres of rainfall every year. Why do you think people taking some litres is going to make any difference at all? Even if every single person in USA would take 10 litres, it would still only be a tiny fraction. Even if it was 100 or 1000 it would be a tiny fraction.
    And then you bailed. Studied? When you say you've studied anything, I don't trust that for a second since you can't even do simple maths.

  17. #17
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heran View Post
    And then you bailed. Studied? When you say you've studied anything, I don't trust that for a second since you can't even do simple maths.
    The fact you think calculating the impacts of mass domestic rainwater harvesting is "simple" shows you probably don't know very much about the subject, either.

    Don't cast stones in a glass house, hun. Especially over something as ridiculous as rainwater collection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The fact you think calculating the impacts of mass domestic rainwater harvesting is "simple" shows you probably don't know very much about the subject, either.

    Don't cast stones in a glass house, hun. Especially over something as ridiculous as rainwater collection.
    Katie N did the maths on it, it's impossible to collect enough rainwater to impact groundwater levels. This guy claims he's studied various things that's convenient to whatever he's discussing.

  19. #19
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heran View Post
    And then you bailed. Studied? When you say you've studied anything, I don't trust that for a second since you can't even do simple maths.
    And I don't care what you trust or not. This is the internet. Believe nothing.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  20. #20
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heran View Post
    Katie N did the maths on it, it's impossible to collect enough rainwater to impact groundwater levels.
    That's nice, dear. I don't particularly give a shit about some poster's napkin math.

    There are doubtless plenty of studies on the subject of the impacts of rainwater harvesting by domestic users that should probably be consulted first. But that aside, did you come into the thread to actually talk about two track education, or did you just want to take a cheap pot shot at a poster you dislike over something entirely unrelated?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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