Could something be done to make people tank?

[Segus1992]

The only time I've played tank, it was when the DK blood a lot of damage from revenge, it was a lot of fun, until he was nerfed and I stopped playing it.
There is a big problem here, and there are very few tanks, because they are very boring and slow killing ... is there any solution? I have a solution, eliminate the tank role. Maybe they should invent a new role, maybe support or dps / tank ..or protector, something but that does not imply that you do less damage than a dps ... is that, what more hays are dps, precisely because they are fun.Every time there are fewer tanks, because they are increasingly boring.

I don't mind playing any role, and have raided as all roles quite a bit. The main reason I gravitate towards healer or DPS is simple: you need a lot more tanks in dungeons than you do in raids. If you want to have a spot in raids, it is a far better choice to be DPS or healer.

Solution to this would be to allow for more tanks in raids. Make it less about them taking a lot less damage and healing themselves and more about taking a bit less damage, healing or otherwise giving support to the group, and dealing a bit less damage than DPS (not the 50% or less they do atm), that way you'd easily get away with having 3-4 tanks in a raid (as the 1-2 extra tanks would make up for having one fewer healer and being able to use another DPS). That way there'd be a balance between tanks and healers in raids and dungeons, and you'd see the tank numbers increase.

TL;DR: Turn tanks into bruisers. This would also solve their PvP issues.

[PenguinChan]

Consider carefully: If the matchmaking system actually came close to accurately ranking or assessing player skill or ability, the content would not need to be designed to be beaten by everyone.

Then what of the terrible players and mediocre players? An MMR system matches you with players of similar skill and ranking. These systems are great for PVP for obvious reasons, but not PVE. It's not designed at all for an environment like that. Terrible players vs terrible players works because you're facing things at your skill level... But if you're terrible players vs decently challenging content - you just end up with people quitting mid runs and never finishing it and quitting that content altogether.

This isn't even remotely getting into how ilvl and classes play a fundamental role with how well you can perform in dungeons, M+ or raids too. It's not viable for it, because those ranking systems were designed for people facing other people, especially in controlled environments. It'd work great for those who are above-average or good at MMORPGs and then they'd always have great players to play with, but everyone else would kind of get fucked by the system.

[Stricks]

I'm sure the times dungeons have had a pretty large impact. I simply don't want that kind of stress/pressure in my gaming. And the players will definitely lay it on you.

[Zarvel]

There'd be a ton more tanks, and healers especially, if the majority of DPS weren't selfish, self-righteous shits demanding perfection when they can't even perform themselves. It's sad, because reliable and competent DPS make tanking and healing infinitely more enjoyable. Make fights where 90% of the mechanics have to be performed by DPS, where any fuck up is a wipe, and don't nerf it. Leave it like that for a few months and maybe the dregs of the playerbase will learn to understand mechanics.

It's almost always 2 polar opposites when it comes to DPS/Heals who disrespect a tank in a dungeon:
1. They have far out-leveled the content they're currently running and yet expect people to step up to their level without making the journey to get there. This includes high RiO score folks in M+ who join those 10s and 11s knowing they won't go as smooth as 15s and above but join the group anyway and then fail to deal with it like its meant to be dealt with. AND, those heroic/mythic raiders joining normal/heroic raids expecting near perfect strat and positioning execution when the fundamental difference between them and the groups they join is the preparation done before a raid - if you're a raider who did heroic week 1 and you join a group doing normal week 2 advertised as a "chill run", just don't join. Those are not the groups for you, you should identify your level and stick to it because mixing it up creates big fucking issues.

2. The DPS/Heal is an under-performer who has never been told off before suddenly getting a taste of reality when they joined something they were never prepared for. This happens more often than not when folks are playing FOTM classes in content and pull barely average performances. Seen so many bad rdruid and hpals in the 10-15 m+ key range and in normal/heroic raids who cannot heal the group worth a damn. These are the healers barely keeping up with the tank's self heals, but show an ego despite that. And it's the same with DPS who underperform and react negatively when asked to provide more. The go to for both these roles when they're under-performers is "stfu", even if all you said was 'hey dude, i need you to stand there and use that spell and nothing else so we beat this fight'. Heck, i had invited this ele shaman who'd done a couple 17s in time, but in my key he was barely pulling 30k overall dps on a fortified week. When i asked why he wasn't casting more earthquakes, his retort was 'stfu'. Barely timed that 14 td.


Idk, it's really hard to say if we'll ever find a new reason to motivate new tanks moving forward. With the quick and speedy gameplay that blizzard keeps pushing for, they're failing to realize the negative effects it breeds in the majority of their community that is not prepared to cope with it but still needs to participate for the rewards to use in other content.

[Segus1992]

I'm sure the times dungeons have had a pretty large impact. I simply don't want that kind of stress/pressure in my gaming. And the players will definitely lay it on you.

This definitely used to be the case when tanking (keeping aggro) was an ordeal, but these days a tank really doesn't play a lot differently from a DPS - your passive threat increase means you'll keep aggro on everything no problem (unless massively undergeared). You generally have to be the one going into mobs and occasionally taunting (and using skills to keep yourself alive somewhat), but you have an a lot easier DPS rotation to compensate.

[Coldfrostzero]

Personally liked tanking in when tanking was about being able to keep yourself up. Having control of your mitigation and using self healing or absorption abilities that shrug off the damage. Doing damage as a tank isn't really what the role is about. You're there to take damage, so being able to shrug it off and allow your healers some breathing room is fun. Also miss threat as a mechanic. Playing Classic is great for this, though the middle ground in BC of tanking threat being a little easier to maintain was ideal. Wrath pretty much made it so as long as you weren't completely outgeared by a DPS and actually hit the target you couldn't lose threat at all.

[Fayolynn]

Reverse the nerf to tank threat.

Tank threat is currently a joke. Reversing a nerf wouldn't really change anything.

[La]

The problem is that you can't really make it more appealing or make more people want to play a tank because there's so much stress that comes with tanking. It takes a certain personality to do it. There's far more pressure on you than anyone else in M+, but it's braindead in raiding.

Honestly I just wish they'd make all of the tanks more like DKs. Tanks should have far more utility to help the people in their party/raids, and the only one that comes close to what I would consider a tank is a DK. Not to mention they did to tanks what they did to a lot of DPS - they made them too similar. Gave them all a few charges of a short CD, gave them all relatively the same defensive abilities. It's just too samey and boring, and lazy.

Their rotations are also ridiculously simple, to the point where you have no room to really min/max your damage because it's already pitifully low. You're not rewarded in any way, you're not really given offensive CDs to help in specific burst windows for the most part. They're just boring and unrewarding to play. Again, the only tank that was rewarding was DKs, because you could time things well and really get some crazy healing going, especially on some of the hard hitting fights.

Give me back WOTLK Prot Warrior and I'd do M+ all the time. But honestly? If you're a good tank you're probably not going to be pugging, or at least you'll be doing your best to avoid it. Easiest thing in the world to get into groups as an undergeared tank, yet still no one does it. Simplest solution? Give a big reward that makes people want to tank it somehow. I'd start with a lot of gold.

[Vilendor]

Yeah. Remove timers from M+ and i will gladly dust off my tanks. It's the core problem of everything:
people expect me to know every single trash pack skip in every single dungeon every single week with every single debuff combination, BECAUSE GOD FORBID IF I PULL AN EXTRA MOB THE WORLD IS ENDING, HUMANITY IS AT RISK AND IM A MORON SHITTY TANK WHO SHOULD GO BACK TO PLAY TETRIS!

I absolutely hate this "rush rush" game design and the mentality it creates. Original Amani Warbear made me quit timed content, M+ is the worst offender ever. Remove timer and make them harder or lower the reward quality as compensation and people will play it more.

[Revamp Man]

Some players don’t like the idea of being a tank I personally make sure to play the tank spec on all of my classes

You really can’t force a player to do anything and removing something from the game just because people don’t want to do it doesn’t really solve anything I mean you yourself quit taking simply because they didn’t do as much damage anymore I mean tanks were never supposed to kill stuff quickly because they would sacrifice damage in exchange for being able to take a hit
You really can’t force a player to do anything and removing something from the game just because people don’t want to do it doesn’t really solve anything I mean you yourself quit tanking simply because they didn’t do as much damage anymore I mean tanks were never supposed to kill stuff quickly because they would sacrifice damage in exchange for being able to take a hit

Sure they kill stuff slower but you can pull like three packs of mobs and kill them there’s plenty of different gimmicks to be able to increase your tank damage that would make it fine


Now if we are talking about the lack of tanks in instances content then I think that is simply because of the pressure that the role places on people for instants I do not think unless it is in my raid or I am going to the dungeon with friends or if it is Ella far simply because there’s no real damage there and I don’t trust strangers to be able to do the job right

Now if we are talking about the lack of tanks in instances content then I think that is simply because of the pressure that the role places on people for instance I do not think unless it is in my read or I am going to the dungeon with friends or if it is Ella far simply because there’s no real damage there and I don’t trust strangers to be able to do the job right If you play class that has a tank spec that you would probably want to learn the specs so you don’t end up complaining about the lack of tanks being that kid with a fire extinguisher watching a house go up in flames complaining that there’s no fireman around

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. Remove timers from M+ and i will gladly dust off my tanks. It's the core problem of everything:
people expect me to know every single trash pack skip in every single dungeon every single week with every single debuff combination, BECAUSE GOD FORBID IF I PULL AN EXTRA MOB THE WORLD IS ENDING, HUMANITY IS AT RISK AND IM A MORON SHITTY TANK WHO SHOULD GO BACK TO PLAY TETRIS!

I absolutely hate this "rush rush" game design and the mentality it creates. Original Amani Warbear made me quit timed content, M+ is the worst offender ever. Remove timer and make them harder or lower the reward quality as compensation and people will play it more.

Wow you must only play top level mythic plus dungeons because I was in three earlier today were nobody cared about the tank pulling extra mops the only thing we cared about was the tank being a dumb ass and not understanding what AOE threat is on a Demon Hunter

[msdos]

I was tanking normal Maut and no one dpsed the add so I was sitting on it for like 1 minute while the other tank was building up stacks, but I couldn't taunt. A quarter of the raid died to the blast, another quarter killed themselves on the shield, an add gets a blast off and someone in Discord immediately goes, "oh tank, you need to put the add in the purple crap".

When we wiped I just alt-F4. Who wants to deal with that? First of all I'm completely over-geared for normal. Second, the raid isn't even executing the mechanics and you're already calling out the tank who's job is basically already brain dead and also is on bottom of the raid wipe threat list. It's a joke. Tanking is already braindead in the raid, so to sit there and have to wipe and then be called out on top of it is just insult to injury, a very unpleasant waste of time.

[GhostShaman]

The only time I've played tank, it was when the DK blood a lot of damage from revenge, it was a lot of fun, until he was nerfed and I stopped playing it.
There is a big problem here, and there are very few tanks, because they are very boring and slow killing ... is there any solution? I have a solution, eliminate the tank role. Maybe they should invent a new role, maybe support or dps / tank ..or protector, something but that does not imply that you do less damage than a dps ... is that, what more hays are dps, precisely because they are fun.Every time there are fewer tanks, because they are increasingly boring.

I always loved tanking. Have ever since vanilla days. However, that all changed for me when we were locked to the GCD. It ruined the whole experience for me. I would gladly start tanking again if they would change it back...

I dont see that ever happening again as wow imo is going to crap, but thats what you get when you get bad management making poor decisions based on bad data.

[Soluna]

I tried healing in FFXIV, and the lack of all the various UI tools I have in WoW soured me to it. No Clique+raid frames or even decent mouseover macros was the big one. Also people get grumpy if you're not also DPSing, then they get grumpy because you went OOM, then they get grumpy because of something else. Now, the community is nowhere near as bad as WoW's is, but a lot of people who aren't healing seem to be experts in how to heal and aren't shy about telling you so.

Yeah that makes sense mate. FF XIV is a lot more toxic than people like to believe. They are just super passive aggressive instead because they know that SE is after their ass the moment they actually insult you right out. A lot of the kindness in FF XIV is fake kindness, as there has never been a person who hasn't helped me without an ulterior motive, which was very obscure at first, to the point that their act seemed selfless, only to later try to guilt trip you to do their bidding.

[Tomana]

> Could something be done to make people tank?

To make me tank? Yes, something can be done: stop making retarded maps like Waycrest Manor and Tol Dagor. -_-

[Moose184]

Which is all well and good, but more often than not these days the DPS lives and carries on doing the same, but now feel emboldened to do so.

Not when your friend is also the healer

[bmjclark]

Bring back vengeance from MoP. I'd tank again

[yamix]

I just refuse to PuG, outside of extreme cases. I don't do LFR, I don't do random HCs and I almost exclusively run mythic+ with my guild or my raid group.
The reason is simple, PuG as a tank is a nightmare. Almost every fiveman has a DPS who completely ignores tactics or tries to enforce their own without telling anyone. Going through a suboptimal route or even pulling a group that normally wouldn't be necessary is a reason for tradechat-grade derision. A DPS that runs ahead and pulls additional groups, because I let the healer drink (who was dry on mana because the DPS ran too far ahead and had to be emergency-healed not to die). A DPS that on skittish weeks runs into a mob group and immediatelly opens with a beam, then proceeds to run away, screaming something about "tank wtf", followed by profanities. And so on.
Finally, the problem with people who ignore tactics, ignore being told tactics and ignore the existence of tactics whatsoever. I don't mind people not knowing - people can and should ask if they do not know the tactics or some other aspect of the run/game; nobody starts in the game with full knowledge of everything and I don't mind sharing what I know. But willful and deliberately maintained ignorance might as well be the stage four cancer of this game.

Yeah. When all that changes, I might start tanking PuGs some more. I apologise to all the people who do not fit to the above mentioned and have to PuG, it is not their fault. But I already have a full time job, and I preffer to keep some shreds of my sanity still remaining.

To add to this, having a timer on M+ rather than relying on difficulty means that 'not knowing' is a liability just due to having a timer. Makes the whole environment worse.

[dragi]

When something going wrong healer and tank are most blamed persons. When i tanking always is..."too slow" ..."too fast"...."not this route" "not this spot:"...

[Jester Joe]

> Could something be done to make people tank?

To make me tank? Yes, something can be done: stop making retarded maps like Waycrest Manor and Tol Dagor. -_-

Waycrest is like, my favorite dungeon to tank. So many times proper LoS makes pulls far easier.

I won't tank in pugs though for the reasons already listed basically. I know the pulls for M+, but why go with pugs who run the risk of throwing fits when I can just run with friends? Everyone wants a tank in their group, and if you've made a few friends in-game, they're usually glad to have a tank to the point that they'll even help with tips if you need it.

[Wavebossa]

Would say not much can be done becouse biggest problem is the community and how they act at lower levels, i fully understand why alot start out and try tank and then give up and switch,

Scream on them to go faster and pulls stuff becouse the tank isnt fast enough, seen to many trying to vote kick tanks for not moving fast enough.

This is the reason in every expac i also make sure im overgeared before i start tanking. So i can rush rush rush without the die die die