Rank 3 Uldum Accord and Rajani Reputation Essences Now Require Revered

[Tech614]

No other expansion has gated alts behind as much as BfA has. It's straight up the most alt unfriendly expansion.
And no, not even Legion comes close because Legion did start to rectify several of the major issues halfway through, while BfA just threw even more in (more essences, cape ranks).

The only thing alt unfriendly in BFA is essences, and that's comparable to legos in Legion(only you know what you need to do to get them, no RNG involved). Neck and Cape have built in catchup to where you can quickly get caught up to main or in other words very similar to artifact weapons in legion.

I don't see it personally.

[Revamp Man]

Once you have everything maxed like the tree and the cloak, you can full clear with 5 masks, that should be around 5k momentos so that makes sockets much faster to get.

OK so let’s say that you proceed to do that

That is still only a loss of 5000 a week which is a much larger percentage so that’s 20% a week that you miss out by not doing the dailies

Even so you will still be able to get a gem socket once every couple weeks if you do fall clears and get 5000 each run because you will still have three more runs each week with the absolute bare minimum effort

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The only thing alt unfriendly in BFA is essences, and that's comparable to legos in Legion(only you know what you need to do to get them, no RNG involved). Neck and Cape have built in catchup to where you can quickly get caught up to main or in other words very similar to artifact weapons in legion.

I don't see it personally.

The expansion did start out extremely unfriendly to Alt characters and only after two years of the content cycle has it become much easier the catch-up mechanic for the neck was not even introduced until the last patch

The armor system is fundamentally unfriendly to multiple characters

[Ealyssa]

. Just like people who continued to do Mage Towers after they had the appearance because they genuinely enjoyed the mage tower.

WTF you talking about ??? That wasn't a thing... The spec tower challenge was closed once achieved...

[Tech614]

the catch-up mechanic for the neck was not even introduced until the last patch

Blatently false.

[Ealyssa]

Atleast put 30min of effort into your alts, geeez.

Effort ? Going trough a stupidly easy, boring and long quest chain is effort ?

You cute, but you wrong.

[Jester Joe]

The only thing alt unfriendly in BFA is essences, and that's comparable to legos in Legion(only you know what you need to do to get them, no RNG involved). Neck and Cape have built in catchup to where you can quickly get caught up to main or in other words very similar to artifact weapons in legion.

I don't see it personally.

Essences are far more grindy is the issue.

Near the end of Legion, you'd get your first few legendaries pretty quickly on alts, and the BoA token that your main would get can be passed along to alts, along with the currency to just straight up buy the tokens.

Nothing like that exists for essences still.

And then tack on the cape, which as far as I know, has no actual catch up, it just has a cap currently. You still have to work through all the ranks and each week the gap just gets larger.

[Tech614]

Essences are far more grindy is the issue.

Near the end of Legion, you'd get your first few legendaries pretty quickly on alts, and the BoA token that your main would get can be passed along to alts, along with the currency to just straight up buy the tokens.

Nothing like that exists for essences still.

And then tack on the cape, which as far as I know, has no actual catch up, it just has a cap currently. You still have to work through all the ranks and each week the gap just gets larger.

The BoA tokens where class based and unless you played a majority of the classes in the game you likely got very few out of that.

The weekly cap on the cape IS the catchup mechanic. Claiming it's hard for alts is crazy talk. It's not a major grind at all, and the weekly limit on upgrades makes it so alts aren't far behind at all.

BFA is not hard on alts, and tbh it should be worse. People want power for nothing these days, if you want your alts to be nearly as strong as your mains then put in the work for it to be so.

[Jester Joe]

The BoA tokens where class based and unless you played a majority of the classes in the game you likely got very few out of that.

The weekly cap on the cape IS the catchup mechanic. Claiming it's hard for alts is crazy talk. It's not a major grind at all, and the weekly limit on upgrades makes it so alts aren't far behind at all.

I played every class and still do to a degree so yes, I got a lot of value out of it.
And even then, you could still buy specific boa class tokens on top of the random drops.


A cap isn't a catch up though. Once everyone's at rank 15, there's no way to get there faster than just grinding it out since you're restricted to a set amount of vessels, and the weeks coming up are going to require even more runs.

Also, not saying it's hard, it's just unfriendly to alts and tedious.

[Tech614]

I played every class and still do to a degree so yes, I got a lot of value out of it.
And even then, you could still buy specific boa class tokens on top of the random drops.


A cap isn't a catch up though. Once everyone's at rank 15, there's no way to get there faster than just grinding it out since you're restricted to a set amount of vessels, and the weeks coming up are going to require even more runs.

Also, not saying it's hard, it's just unfriendly to alts and tedious.

Once everyone is rank 15 you can hit rank 15 in 3 weeks instead of the 9 weeks it took mains to hit it. That is the catchup mechanic. Claiming it's not is some next level denial.

Color me surprised a person that wants to play every class in the game is complaining because some of them aren't optimal. Let some characters rock rank 1 and rank 2 essences, it will be ok my dude. You don't need rank 3 essences anymore then you need ilvl 475 gear and I highly doubt you're doing +15s or mythic raiding on all your characters so you won't have that either. Is that now "unfriendly to alts"?

[Nnyco]

Effort ? Going trough a stupidly easy, boring and long quest chain is effort ?

You cute, but you wrong.

You can skip most of it on alts, and its 'stupid easy' yet here we are having people complain about it.

[Tomana]

one thing to keep in mind guys: in order to upgrade the legendary cloak to maximum corruption resistance you'll still have to do the dailies for the next could of months.

That is true, however for this week I'm pretty full on tokens and coalesced visions, so I can slack after hitting revered with Rajani today
Casual play (3x assaults + daily vision) gets your 3 essences a week, so I'm safe for the upcoming 2-3 weeks.

[Video Games]

The vendor is sparse enough as it is. They really need to add like a full page of stuff

[Alvito]

Well at least between this and a few weeks ago when they bumped rewards they are realizing they made a mistake and are trying to fix it. It would be great if they could see this on the front side though. An improvement on creating systems and forecasting outcomes would be a much bigger and more needed change than the reactionary delays and lingering feelings of disconnect from dev's and players.

[Jester Joe]

Once everyone is rank 15 you can hit rank 15 in 3 weeks instead of the 9 weeks it took mains to hit it. That is the catchup mechanic. Claiming it's not is some next level denial.

Color me surprised a person that wants to play every class in the game is complaining because some of them aren't optimal. Let some characters rock rank 1 and rank 2 essences, it will be ok my dude. You don't need rank 3 essences anymore then you need ilvl 475 gear and I highly doubt you're doing +15s or mythic raiding on all your characters so you won't have that either. Is that now "unfriendly to alts"?

That isn't a "catch up" man. And no, no one is going to do it in 3 weeks when some of the ranks require 2-3 full clears alone, and then you have to factor in the research levels that are only being obtained because people are running visions NOT for ranks, but just to farm another level. That isn't going to be possible when you're grinding up to rank 15.

Lastly, it's a silly point to claim it's "catch up" because in the end, it's going to take the person the same amount of time. Nothing actually gets faster, you can just chain it all is the only difference.
If I get to rank 15 by doing visions 1 hour a week until rank 15 is out, it's still going to take that one person 15 hours of playing in a week to get to rank 15, for example. That isn't "faster", that's just condensed into one session (which won't be possible due to the rate that vessels come in).

The neck has a catch up because each week it actually gets easier to do, requiring less work. It's really not the same at all, the cape will require the same amount of work.

And did I say I WANT to play every class in the game? No. Don't put words in my mouth, you're better than that. I did in Legion because the Mage tower challenge was interesting. Currently, I only play a range of 3-5 classes, but that's still obnoxious to have to get Lucid dreams for the 5th time when I have rank 3 on the others, and don't try to push that "rank 1 or 2 is fine" garbage when stuff like Breath of the Dying is whole 2k difference in DPS when going from rank 1 to 3 as a minor (since rank 2 doesn't actually affect DPS).
If I play a class, I want to be able to play it to the max that I can.

If you want to argue "Then put in the work", I have no interest in that discussion because it's pointless, and it has nothing to do with my original claim that BfA is the most alt unfriendly expansion to exist. Trying to narrow it down to comparing Legendaries to essences is dishonest when you got legendaries just by doing anything, while essences lock you into having to redo older content (which mind you, you can't even skip the intro to like you could for Legion zones)

You can skip most of it on alts, and its 'stupid easy' yet here we are having people complain about it.

Call me when you can skip Nazjatar's intro (Which is mandatory) or Mechagon's.

You can only skip the two starting scenarios for the cape. You can't skip anything before or after that on an alt. "Most" of it was never true.

[Tech614]

And no, no one is going to do it in 3 weeks when some of the ranks require 2-3 full clears alone

No ranks require a full clear. In fact full clearing only gets you mementos and chance at garbo gear/cosmetics. Someone that does 2 lost areas and dies gets 2 pages, someone that does a full clear still gets 2 pages.

So I'm not sure what you're going on about, cloak upgrades are easy AF and do not require full clears.

[Marrilaife]

Tanks are still good in arena up to 1600 and even beyond in enough cases. Also, it took how long to nerf GDdruid? I also don’t remember anything being conveyed that ranks shouldn’t be in arena. That’s like saying they don’t want Hunters in arena because every time they get a good ability that makes them viable into high ranks they get nerfed.

I'm not gonna dig years into the past, because it happened somewhere around the first half of legion, when they started doing this "separate ability scaling" in pvp and basically every tank cd or self heal is semi-neutered in pvp with gimped scaling and Blizzard's answer to it was along the lines "tanks being strong in pvp makes an unfun experience for others" so basically they made tanks hit like wet noodles and be often less tanky than some dps specs (the ones with tons of defensives).

Every time there was some comp that did well and relied on tanks, like the time brewmasters could give guard to team mates and blood dks could give ams (if I remember well, could be some other cd) to team mates and people were doing some comps like blood + brew + ww etc. it got axed.

They also nerfed vengeance when demonic trample was good and made them excel at flag carrying job. However that's not related to arenas only bgs.

And about hunters, dunno what to tell you, hunters deleting people with basilisk? nerf. Locks deleting people with chaos bolt while being immune to silence and interrupt? It's fine, the game is balanced. I really hate pvp and I wish we would not have stuff that are bis for pve locked behind pvp.

[Jester Joe]

No ranks require a full clear. In fact full clearing only gets you mementos and chance at garbo gear/cosmetics. Someone that does 2 lost areas and dies gets 2 pages, someone that does a full clear still gets 2 pages.

So I'm not sure what you're going on about, cloak upgrades are easy AF and do not require full clears.

Okay, that still ends up with someone being unable to do it in a single week.

The fact that you can only get 2 a run and there's ranks coming up that are going to require 4-12 pages...

And not doing as much as you can in a clear is going to just screw you over in the long run then if you're trying to do two lost areas without any research done.

[Marrilaife]

No ranks require a full clear. In fact full clearing only gets you mementos and chance at garbo gear/cosmetics. Someone that does 2 lost areas and dies gets 2 pages, someone that does a full clear still gets 2 pages.

So I'm not sure what you're going on about, cloak upgrades are easy AF and do not require full clears.

If you're after the essence though, full clears are important (you can skip thrall / alleria only). But what he meant is probably while ap requirements for neck go down, vial requirements don't, if you need 4 pages, you need 2 vials, now or in 5 months from now.

[Tech614]

If you're after the essence though, full clears are important (you can skip thrall / alleria only). But what he meant is probably why ap requirements for neck go down, vial requirements don't, if you need 4 pages, you need 2 vials, now or in 5 months from now.

Which changes nothing because vessels are not the limiting factor now, the time gate is. In fact outside the very last 2 ranks you get far more vessels per week then you need.

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Okay, that still ends up with someone being unable to do it in a single week.

The fact that you can only get 2 a run and there's ranks coming up that are going to require 4-12 pages...

And not doing as much as you can in a clear is going to just screw you over in the long run then if you're trying to do two lost areas without any research done.

Good thing the game hands you 3 vessels for free on your alt and you get 5+ a week from doing content. Super hard grind! /s

Also lol at claiming the lost areas are hard, even the most aids one in stormwind mage district is fairly easy and more annoying then anything. You don't need to full clear just complete the areas. So hard... not. By time anyone gets to the ranks that require lost areas they will have the very bottom talent and be working on filling out the rest of their tree even if they only did bare minimum to upgrade cloak. Just stop with these false claims.

[Marrilaife]

Which changes nothing because vessels are not the limiting factor now, the time gate is.

Good thing the game hands you 3 vessels for free on your alt and you get 5+ a week from doing content. Super hard grind! /s

That's only for alts who started week 1 of patch, no grind.

If you started late and suddenly need to catch up the worth of let's say 20 vials, it will become a grind, because "for free" aka minimal effort you get around 3 per week, if you want "5+" you need to grind.