Could something be done to make people tank?

[Revamp Man]

Actually...that's not solely how the game is structured. In large part you have a mixture of different systems of gearing, as I literally just outlined in my previous post. There are steady increases in power, such as with AP or Corruption resistance. But there is also a large random factor due to the nature of loot drops. You might get lucky and have the perfectly rolled piece of gear drop, or you might get nothing. Completing higher-level content increases your chances of getting higher iLVL gear, but there's no guarantee.

And up until 8.3, Titanforging could literally give a player gear much higher iLVL than what the content they cleared actually warranted. And before that, in Legion, you had legendary drops which could, and did, drop from something as easy as an emissary quest, but could boost character power to ridiculous degrees. We see this reflected in certain Corrupted traits, such as Infinite Stars.

This, I believe, creates a similar effect to what you described. And there's definitely some conflicting and confusing messages being sent here:

1) ILVL is supposed to be king. And yet, depending on the nature of the corrupted trait, certain equipment might be more powerful despite being lower iLVL. This is a problem that has consistently popped up across expansions.

2) Players being rewarded with gear that is far more powerful than the content they're clearing actually warrants. This is an effect created by Titanforging, or traits like Infinite Stars.

To me this says that iLVL is a poor measure of what content a person should actually be engaging with. And this is exactly why the community comes up with alternative measures for ability such as RaiderIO. They need a more accurate estimate of what a player is actually capable of, because gear is so easy to obtain.






No amount of gear, or possibility of gear, is going to motivate a lazy player to get better at the game. There's a misconception that having iLVL to access content is the same as being entitled to clear it. This is not the case, even in today's WoW.

However, I agree that the reward system of giving higher iLVL gear for clearing higher level content is a bit borked. But at the same time, as I mentioned before, there are other systems of character progress to mitigate that. In BfA it's corruption resistance and AP. In Shadowlands it sounds like it will be Anima and Covenants.






I would have to assume that any player who prematurely leaves a group would receive a more stiff penalty to their ranking in order to encourage players to stick it out. But even so, another player leaving would not severely impact your own rating, similar to how if other people leave run, you don't receive a deserter debuff.






I would have to assume that whatever drop in rank you might get from occasionally being matched with a lower-skilled boosted player would even out exactly the same way the boosted player's higher score would. Sure, you might take a slight hit if a run fails(although I wonder how often that would really happen when everyone else in the group is at the difficulty they're supposed to be at). But over the longer term your rank would recover while playing with non-booster players.

I have to disagree with this entirely. Primarily because a ranked matchmaking system will heavily punish players who repeatedly leave groups. Because it's a matchmaking system, players will not be able to decide who they team with. Those who are persistent and do the run with whoever they're matched with will see their rank rise. Those who attempt to abuse the system and maintain an elitist attitude will never rise, and thus never have access to the rewards of higher ranked runs outside of their own pre-made, non-ranked groups.

In short, those with poor attitudes will get exactly what they deserve: Shitty groups. Those with good attitudes will get better groups.

I don't see this as a bad thing at all.[/QUOTE]

Can you see if the system was something that punishes elitist players I would be in full agreement with you and I would love it but the game it’s self is not structured like that and it would require some heavy duty changes specifically because the item level system that blizzard themselves have pushed to the forefront is the biggest hurdle
Do you see if the system was something that punishes elitist players I would be in full agreement with you and I would love it but the game itself is not structured like that and it would require some heavy duty changes specifically because the item level system that blizzard themselves have pushed to the forefront is the biggest hurdle


So let’s say that the ranking system does work out and people who leave get punished and you can go with random people and that’s fine I still shouldn’t be punished because a person left a group my ranking should not be negatively affected but it will be because of a person leaves a group and the system does not allow us to get someone new then we might not be able to clear it meaning we will have failed the run

But back to the item level system blizzard bows to the most vocal of the casual player base that is why we have such intense power creep that is why we have the ability to get the same level of gear as a normal raid with minimal effort that is why we have a lot of the systems that have affected the game negatively

But back to the item level system blizzard bows to the most vocal of the casual player base that is why we have such intense power creep that is why we have the ability to get the same level of gear as a normal raid with minimal effort that is why we have a lot of the systems that have affected the game negatively Blizzard will have to abandon item level as any form of measurement meaning that they will have to remove it as any barrier of entry because right now item level is the only way outside of the third-party add on to measure a player or their skill progression whatever you might want

Blizzard will have to abandon item level as any form of measurement meaning that they will have to remove it as any barrier of entry because right now item level is the only way outside of the third-party add on to measure a player or the skill progression whatever you might want

This item level has caused elitism for the better part of a decade it existed before hand with gear score but it has gotten worse because blizzard accepted it

Little Jimmy could never step foot into a raid and say right now be at an item level of 430 he has no upgrades from the world content other than the weekly and endgame blizzard does push the idea of Keystone dungeon and at 4:30 you know he might try a basic level zero which might work out but what if he doesn’t do that for a couple weeks and gets that precious 445 item level

Little Jimmy could never step foot into a raid and say right now be at an item level of 430 he has no upgrades from the world content other than the weekly and endgame blizzard does push the idea of a keystone dungeon and at 4:30 you know he might try a basic level zero which might work out but what if he doesn’t do that for a couple weeks and gets that precious 445 item level Well a mythic level zero will not give him any upgrades when it comes to corruption a lot of casual players don’t use it or they overdo it and then complain about the system Raiders will go and do that world quest for the 415 ring for the off chance that it has rang three devastation on
Well the mythic level zero will not give him any upgrades when it comes to corruption a lot of casual players don’t use it or they overdo it and then complain about the system Raiders will go and do that Worldquest for the 415 ring for the off chance that it has rang three devastation on

Timmy won’t Timmy thinks that item level is all that matters so he will go into a plus for and maybe he will get excepted into the freehold run and he’s been running her Roeck’s so he knows some of the basic mechanics but he keeps dying to stuff that never killed him before and he’s getting yelled at because the group doesn’t like someone dying in depleting a small key so he never does it again

Timmy won’t Timmy thinks that item level is all that matters so he will go into a +4 and maybe he will get excepted into the freehold run and he’s been running her Rolex so he knows some of the basic mechanics but he keeps dying to stuff that never killed him before and he’s getting yelled at because the group doesn’t like someone dying in depleting a small key so he never does it again now this has been helped with the removal of Titan Forge so once you get past a certain level if you find a player with an item level of 450 currently then you know they kind of know their shit

So essentially that breakpoint an item level is where a break point in the ranking system would be because even in the ranking system you will have that lower end that is filled with just crap players

Now the current way to fix that just ignore them group with other people you can actually avoid all of the shitty players outside of pure elitism in World of Warcraft right now and even then if you have someone who has an item level of 455 then they have some skill which means doing a level five dungeon with them means it wouldn’t be the latest for them to want to go faster

Now the current way to fix that just ignore them group with other people you can actually avoid all of the shitty players outside of pure elitism in World of Warcraft right now and even then if you have someone who has an item level of 455 then they have some skill which means doing a level five dungeon with them means it wouldn’t be elitist for them to want to go faster

If someone can make a ranking system with a matchmaking system that does not punish the players if someone decides to leave group that would be great let’s say that you have five people you go into the dungeon at rank ate one of the people leave because there a dick that immediately avoid any possibility of your rank going down that would be great where as the person who left has their rank go down by twice as much

If someone can make a ranking system with a matchmaking system that does not punish the players if someone decides to leave group that would be great let’s say that you have five people you go into a dungeon at rank eight one of the people leave because they’re a dick that immediately avoids any possibility of your rank going down that would be great where as the person who left has their rank go down by twice as much let’s say that if I have a lower ranked friend that I want to boost then I am able to pull them in to my level of dungeon my rank game will stay the same they’re ranked game will double or the other way around I am pulled into their dungeon and my rank gain is cut in half

Does the idea intrigue me and would I be OK with it the answer to that is definitely yes but in the current system in the current game I don’t see how it can work without changing the fundamental point of the wow reward structure

I want that reward structure change 100% by the way because ever since the beginning of Legion they fucked it up and it has made me and a lot of people rather angry

I don’t want blizzard to feel like they have to protect their players from their own stupidity I don’t want them to feel like they have to guide us on a train rail of how we should progress or character I don’t want them to tell me that I cannot give my friend his best in slot weapon simply because it is five item levels higher than the one I have I want to have control of my character and a ranked match making system would probably do that however it will never happen in World of Warcraft and trying to implement it in the current system will not work

- - - Updated - - -

The issue is there's a big portion of playerbase who wants to constantly get rewarded for just subbing and spending time in the game without having to group or improve as a player. So Blizzard in order to keep them subbed started this system where there are literal gear handouts, not just "catch up gear", gear that often beats lfr or even normal raiding rewards. It's toned down a bit now, but things like benthic gear meant you could have a player close to heroic raid ilvl but with a skill of a badly programmed bot.

Wow has big problem with reward structure. Should people be rewarded more for content that requires more skill? Or just one that is a bigger timesink? Should the progression path be clear, you pick your game, pvp, raiding, m+ and progress there, or should everything be intertwined? And if it's interconnected, how do you know that player who has the "ilvl" but got it from different content knows how to do the content you want to invite him for? There are very few players who are versatile and equally skilled in all forms of endgame. Meanwhile a lot of players are semi decent in what they focus on, but awful in other forms of content.

There's also this problem that gear is used as both gatekeeper ("must have this ilvl to enter") and as a reward, and for many players it's the most important part of reward structure, more important than ap, essences, cosmetics, achievements and whatever else. We have people who pay hefty money to get boosted just to obtain gear they're never gonna use, just parade in cities, and then when next gear arrives, buy another round of boosts. We have literally people who pay the sub for a game and then pay a fee so they can skip playing the game.

How is it related to tank shortage?

Well, from what I noticed among super skilled players, averagely skilled players and even below averagely skilled players, there's still decent spread between dps, tank and heal. But in the pile of players that are completely useless, the level of "badly programmed bot", vast majority of them are dps. That creates #1 overabundance of dps in queues #2 bad experiences for people who are stuck with these players in a group, because despite these players are very low skilled, they're often entitled, rude, unwilling to learn and improve, and generally make the life a living hell especially for tanks and healers. They're the players who think they "deserve" stuff just by being subbed, and recent wow design only strengthens that belief. They will often have enough ilvl to actually mingle with the crowd and get into groups.

This creates 2 ripple effects: #1 more tanks and healers only stick to their friends / guildies and refuse to pug, or swap to dps when pugging because they cba with bad treatment when crap dps can get away with 10x worse play, #2 development of "elitist" websites and addons that are meant to separate the chaff from the wheat, they're all inaccurate but not as inaccurate as ilvl became now.

Blizzard doesn't want to give people in-game tools to for example blacklist players (ignore list has limited spots, doesn't ignore the character when you log to alts etc.), or to measure their performance without resorting to addons and 3rd party websites. But they create content where your performance is very reliant on your prior experience (memorizing patterns of boss mechanics, layouts, etc. and practicing it ad nauseam), and content where a mistake of a single player doesn't impact just him but the whole group. Raiding especially mythic has became an exercise in synchronised swimming if we want to compare it to any "sport".

What's even worse, there's no good place for people to learn and practice without facing all the scrutiny for a failure. Levelling dungeons became completely disrespected and you're supposed to zoom zoom speed run through them, tanks should mass pull, keep aggro and not die. Which tbh can be more stressful than actually tanking a dungeon that is deemed "dangerous" so you'd pull more carefully and less stuff at once.

So right now those players that blizzard cater two with constant rewards reach a certain top end of their play I believe you could measure it at around a plus for or a +3 mythic dungeons after that you probably get jess the big elitist assholes players until you hit +10 and that’s because you can’t really be elitist and all require skill

So right now those players that blizzard cater to with constant rewards reach a certain top end of their plate I believe you could measure it at around a +4 or +3 mythic dungeon after that you probably get jess the big elitist asshole players until you hit +10 and that’s because you can’t really be elitist and I’ll require skill


So we move forward the tank shortage can be caused by the crap players not wanting to take any extra responsibility which ironically enough is one of my red lights who refuses to play any spec other than one no matter how bad it is and they are essentially C so we move forward the tank shortage can be caused by the crappy players not wanting to take any extra responsibility which ironically enough is one of my relates who refuses to play any speck other than one no matter how bad it is

But you also reach a point in players scale where it is probably equal to the +10 dungeon level that if a player like myself on my Monk has access to a healer spec or a tank spec I will tank so I don’t need to wait so I can make my runs easier this means that once you hit a certain point there is no shortage of tanks

But you also reach a point in players skill where it is probably equal to the +10 dungeon level that if a player like myself on my monk has access to a healer spec or a tank spec I will tank so I don’t need to wait so I can make my runs easier this means that once you hit a certain point there is no shortage of tanks


But there will always be in the system a shortage of tanks in the lower content like low level mythic’s or looking for a raid or heroic dungeons because they have already progressed past that so unless they are on an alternate character then there is no reason for them to be there
But there will always be in this system a shortage of tanks in the lower content like low level mythic‘s or looking for raid or heroic dungeons because they have already progressed past that so unless they are on an alternate character then there is no reason for them to be there


I want the system to change the blizzard will not change it asLong as they stick with this stupid idea that bad players need to be protected and we need to be let around by a leash on how to play the game

[menion]

I used to only play tank from WotLK to the end of WoD. Then tanking became out pulling as fast as you can and if you arent fast enough (which is nearly always for some players) theyll pull for you. Remove or rework mythic plus and kick dps for pulling and I would be first in line to start tanking again. Yall are toxic though so enjoy your long QQ times

[Whitedragon]

The fun part about being a tank is watching a DPS pull 1-3 things, then you pull about 20-25 things and kill them all without dropping below 99.5%, fairly quickly I might add.

[chiddie]

As a blood DK, I quite enjoy tanking.

In my opinion, the issue nowadays are timed runs. You have basically to know every perfect path for every instance and do everything top notch, especially in pugs (I only pug), else key is gone. It’s challenging and fun but can also get frustrating quite fast.

I like M+, I like the affixes mechanic but imho timer should just go away. Increase difficulty to compensate but remove timers or make them way more forgiving.

[BeepBoo]

The lack of tanks has nothing to do with how interesting it is, it's because so many people are goddamn awful and blame them for everything. Even doing a flawless job, just knowing you're one mispressed button away from having shit flung at you is enough to suck all the enjoyment out of it for a lot of people.

Sounds like a problem with how crucial tanking is with less margin for error than DPS. Realistically, anyone dying in a 5 man instance has immense amount of blame. Tank dying almost always = a wipe. They need to find a way to change that.

[cface]

Even though I play the most op tank that is also the easiests, prot warrior, I feel it's way more stressful then playing dps. The whole rotation is keeping yourself from being paper, and although it's kind of easy, a missplay and getting out of rhytm is horrible.
I can't just join a random pug group, cause with obelisk I only run my key, as I have to plan with MDT how to do the run with it.

Tanking this xpac is absolute dogshit, had way more fun in Legion with being a OP bear.

[Muajin76]

Dodge rolls, active blocking

hard to tank when you're guilty..

[cuafpr]

came back to this thread and "happy" to see a few key points...

1) - less timed content to get away from rush rush
2) - making tanking feel like tanking, not DPS with extra armor/shield
3) - the community has killed many peoples desire to pug as a tank

I think 3 would partially be fixed via the first.. if tanks have time to pull, and a few extra mobs don't ruin a key the community might be more forgiving.

[Voidwielder]

Give ranged/melee more things to deal with. Like Shadow of Zul in KR. A tank can do very little but stand there and take it. It's the healer and DPS who have to deal with soaking and dispel mechanics.

I main healer and played (until 8.3) BrM alt.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really with the current m+ system, which isnt going away

As much as I like M+, I have to agree with it.

The ''directed'' and timed nature of it requires from tank to know everything from the first second of pull to the last boss. What to take, where to stand, where to move - any of those done wrong will likely cause a wipe or a massive time loss.

[Raelbo]

As someone who mains a pure DPS class (Hunter), but has some alts who can tank (DK, DH), I will attest to the effect of toxic players on my willingness to tank things like LFD, LFR etc.

The biggest deterrent to tanking for pugs is, as many here have stated, the toxic little shits that infest the game. Granted, most groups are actually perfectly fine. But there is always a real possibility of being grouped with a player who is all about gogogo.

My worst experience was doing TW Slave-Pens, and being grouped with a retarded idiot playing a monk who kept running ahead and pulling stuff. After about the third pack was pulled by him, I was unable to save his stupid ass, so he died, and immediately commented with "...". I asked to let me do the pulling, and his response was "Your slow as f" (sic). At this point the healer piped up that he won't get heals if he pulls, and he will learn. So he died on the next pack. The next half of the dungeon was him arguing with the healer, while the other 2 dps just kept quiet. The guy was shitting all over the healer for "not doing you're job". He was telling me to hurry between every pull (for example if I stopped to loot something...). After the second last boss, I was waiting for the healer to get some mana and the idiot monk charges off into a pack and dies in 2 seconds flat. At this point a vote kick was initiated against the healer, and it passed. Which means the other 2 dps agreed with mr Monk(ey).

I didn't say anthing more. The run was almost complete and I didn't want to get kicked too. I dropped a brief comment after the final boss just to give them a piece of my mind (remaining polite ofc), and that was that.

I know full-well that the problem with that run wasn't me. I have run plenty of TW over the years using LFD as a dps, more than enough to know what constitutes a decent pace, and while I know I am not the fastest, I wasn't any slower than a typical pug tank. The healer was also not in the wrong at all. The entire problem was the idiot monk. Even without kicking the healer, his behaviour turned the run into an unpleasant experience for me. The fact that the majority felt it was ok to punish the healer instead of the toxic monk, just left a sour taste in my mouth. And the fact that I am writing about it now should serve as an indication that it's an experience that has stuck with me.

Look, I have a thick enough skin. I am not going to cry about it. But when it comes to me deciding whether tank or not, it does affect my decision. I play this game to have fun. And having to tank LFD instances with a piece of human trash like that monk is not fun. It's tedious and annoying and honestly, I have many better things to spend my time in the game doing. All of which translates into me being a little less likely to bother with tanking any pug content.

The simple fact is this: Overall I'd rather just dps when it comes to pug content. The reason I will still tank is mostly for Call to Arms satchels, or if going tank increases the likelihood of getting into a group.

[Cracka_Bob]

I think they could buff tank damage (but still be lower than actual DPS) and that would be a start for some people. I mean hell, at least make the "big hitters" like Shield Slam or Mangle etc actually have big hits (when compared to our other abilities).

But really it comes down to mechanics and responsibilities. No one wants to learn tank mechanics because they can't just jump into a group without knowing the fight like they can if they were DPS, and no one wants to be yelled at for pulling too fast or not fast enough and/or wiping the party/raid. So I'm not sure there's too much that can be done in WoW's current state.

Also, at least for me, make passive mitigation important again. Yes, I know passive is more boring than active mitigation, but maybe just a slight tweak would help new players (or at least people new to tanking) not feel like they will get one shot if they don't time their abilities just right.

[shade3891]

Add more mechanics for DPS classes to deal with. Like soaking spots, interrupts, kiting and CC. Remove interrupts from the tank so it really becomes the job of the DPS to do this. So in a way make DPS less attractive and tanks easier to play.

[Eurhetemec]

I've played tanks since long before WoW (1999, EverQuest), and I've played tanks as my main through every expansion of WoW (albeit I mostly skipped Pandaria, a mistake, in retrospect, should have skipped WoD!).

The main thing that makes me occasionally go "Fuck this..." is toxic behaviour from players, particularly from dumb little brainless, shrieking monkeys (most of whom play melee DPS though you get the other ranged monkey too) who constantly and mindlessly pull extra stuff, run ahead, pull bosses, and so on. That GOGOGOGO shit is absolutely the fucking worst and most pathetic stuff, and the people who it are unspeakable trash. And they really are trash - I once ended up in a guild with one of them for a while, and yeah he was 100% absolutely the trashbag I expected him to be, on every possible level. We even got the bonus prize of him being yelled by his mom (despite claiming to be well into his 20s and living by himself) during a raid.

When an actually-competent player is being helpful, and bringing in extra stuff with an eye on my health, the healer's situation and mana, not bringing it in when it isn't needed, and using Misdirect or the like (rather than some facepull shit), that can actually be really cool, but it's far rarer than the GOGOGO monkeys. Punishing GOGOGO monkeys more would definitely help, but there needs to be away to do it without just wiping the group, because they're always the first to scream at the tank then leave.

That rant over, I think the major thing is this:

In the NORMAL (not Heroic, not Mythic) mode of dungeons, tanks should be able to survive a new dungeon by playing reactively/defensively rather than having to read the entire dungeon journal in order to definitely not wipe the group. Not only is fucking UN-FUN to spoiler yourself on an entire new dungeon just so you don't wipe everyone, but it makes the role less appealing and more threatening to newer or less confident/experienced players. Also in most cases, you're the only one doing it! Most of the DPS won't have read or watched anything, and you're lucky if the healer has - they expect you to explain any odd mechanics. I'm not saying Normal is horrific or whatever, but in Legion/BfA, it felt to me like it was overtuned and overcomplicated, especially for the gear level when you do it, to the point where, when I got to Heroic, it felt significantly easier than Normal, which seems messed up. That feeling held with alts, too, note, so it wasn't just knowing the dungeon.

Add more mechanics for DPS classes to deal with. Like soaking spots, interrupts, kiting and CC. Remove interrupts from the tank so it really becomes the job of the DPS to do this. So in a way make DPS less attractive and tanks easier to play.

This won't work. This is just one of the solutions that will lead to the group being wiped more and more, which means less people will play tank, because tanks and healers attract 90% of the blame for wipes, even when DPS directly or indirectly caused them (for example by not interrupting the Shadowblasts in Ahn'Kahet, which is more or less the sort of thing you're proposing). If this really did work, tanks would have become more popular in Cataclysm, anyway, because there the DPS were absolutely required to do ALL of the things you've listed, especially in Heroic, but also on Normal.

And what actually happened? Tanks got even LESS popular in Cataclysm, because they were expected to explain all this shit to the DPS like they were 5, and then still got blamed when the DPS were too dumb to actually carry it out.

[maivy]

no solution for this.
Regards,
Maivy

[Artemol]

Been tanking since vanilla and still do in BFA.

Been tanking on: Warrior, Paladin, Druid, DK, DH.

Tanking is and has always been fun in its own aspect, compared to deepsing.
Tanks had always been fun to play, as you lead the pace of dungeons, you decide where bosses stand and how to direct your
raid to follow your lead.

Whats even more fun, is to feel POWERFUL AND ATTRACT AS MUCH SHIT AS POSSIBLE FEELING LIKE SUPERMAN RAWRR that being said, tanking in BFA; especially 8.3 has been super sad feeling.

I remember the good ol' days of M+ especially Lower Kara as a Vengeance DH, boom pull entire rooms and not feel threatned by mobs, yes i did this style of tanking all the way up to +25s.

I remember being able to solo CoS +10, as a VDH.
Nowadays, with all the nerfs i can hardly tank 2 Elite Dungeon mobs at +15, without feeling like im about to shit my pants. We're at a point with the nerfs that i might aswell tank without any gear.

That being said, Buff Tank Damage/Healing, or plain increase avoidance against mobs. Some tanks, DHs in mind are taking way too much dmg and doing too little selfheal compared to what we were used to do.

Right now, with decent pulls, i can do ~40-45k dps per pack as a VDH which is fine in it self, but the intake of damage is extremly high.

Was doing a +15 ML the other day and lept into a pack with Spikes active, within a second or two, i was flatlining and had to pop major cds to survive.

Either: Increase damage and selfheal by introducing a weaker version of Vengeance(compared to the old days).
Or,
Increase survivabiltiy by giving tanks a flat avoidance buff / armor buff (Armor itself does not fix damage intake against magic casts).

[Talyn]

You need only 2 tanks in raids, thats explain shortage on this role.

[Orwell7]

It's really fun to read these topics again-
interestingly, if the "playstyle" is fun and engaging, no-fuckin-one talks about the THEORY of gameplay. Why tanking is an odd job, why ranged>melee, how the fights should end up, etcetc.

When the gameplay is fun and engaging, and you have FREAKIN BUTTONS TO PRESS, and don't feel like an eternity to react to something, and maybe you won't get oneshotted if you don't plan 5 minutes ahead... then players WILL talk about tactics, what is BEST to use, how to utilize your toolkit, how your toolkit SYNERGIZES with other characters, and so on

Ion and his crew just shit on all classes, including tanks, they want to fart out something "different". Typical Blizzard "rockstar dev" mentality, everyone is stupid except them, because they are helicopters and we should worship them, and if we don't have fun its somehow OUR fault.

[Eluvium]

That's a joke, right?

I do play tank classes, but I don't tank. But that has nothing to do with tanking itself or dps or something else related to the class. I don't tank because of people. When people even in low level instances don't have the time to let a learning tank learn, it's no fun. If I get the feeling within the first minute in the instance that the people I was thrown together with are impatient and really interested in playing as a team, I don't feel appreciated. I don't want to be praised, but I would like not to haste through and get blamed if the overzealous ranged dps pulled half the instance

Came here to say this. Stopped playing several tanks because DPS were impatient and not willing to slow the rythm as a I learned the ropes. Just ticked me off.

[shade3891]

Well maybe there is nothing that can be done. It mostly comes down on player choice of the role they want to preform in a group. Being the group shield might just not be that cool...

Give more classes a tank spec so more players have to option to tank, that might increase the number of tanks slightly. After ppl are done raging because their favorite spec became a tank spec :P

[Skylarking]

Hmm nothing that I know of. Because of the role itself and the flak it gets, blizzard has to set up a huge incentive for people to tank.

Tanks have to lead, fk that I cbf.

The things you do as a tank are not noticeable to uninformed players as such you are not praised for your efforts. Like kicking the deadly cast or stunning the dangerous mob, rounding the mobs up into a neat deathball. If a dps is doing their job it's much more noticeable because things die faster. You will immediately notice if you have a strong dps in the group.

You get hounded all the time as tank. I would rather go into the group as dps, do my job and leave. Not gonna take lip service if I don't have to. This has led me to be passive in group content. If a tank or healer is being called out I won't weigh in either way. Keep my mouth shut and move with the flow.

Perhaps blizzard can try taking pointers in tanking from other mmorpgs that follow the holy trinity and see what makes them tick? /shrug